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Ledabot wrote:You can’t beat feudal Japan for some really cool fluff. They may have suits, but that’s not all I want to love them for. I actually got into tau because of the XV25s sleek lines, and I didn't even know what anime was back then. I so really hope they make them good, because I want my little XV25s to beat as good as they look.

What I really liked most about Tau were the vehicles, the devilfish/hammerhead in particular. It's one of the things that inevitably pushed me over the edge and into collecting Tau, lol. The basic troops looked okay (obviously sci-fi but with a more "modern" look than a lot of the other races), alien auxiliaries sounded cool to me as a nice contrast to the clean, modern Tau troops (giving me the chance to paint something different without collecting a different army), but I really liked the idea of an army with a lot of vehicles in it and Tau didn't disappoint. Space Marines were too boxy, Eldar were too...alien, I guess. Tau were a good compromise, curved and sleek while still looking like tanks.

The suits were always the weakest models in my opinion. I liked the idea, and they're a good, chunky size for the price (although they've probably gone up since then), but they're too boxy and don't really look like they "fit in". The XV9's are definitely a step in the right direction (and look just a tad influenced by District 9 if I'm not mistaken), the only thing I don't like about them are the knees and the weird feet/toes. If GW redesigned the XV8's/88's and made them look more like this, assuming the codex wasn't nerfed to all hell and practically unplayable (kinda like the state Tyranids are currently in) I would be all over that gak. I'd throw all my suits in the garbage and buy like 20 new ones...unless the price is hiked up even more, anyway. I'm hoping for packs of three a la killa kans.

Sidstyler wrote:assuming the codex wasn't nerfed to all hell and practically unplayable (kinda like the state Tyranids are currently in)

The hyperbole is strong with this one.

Sorry, I just don't see the point of your post, other than pointing out the obvious and being off-topic. So I exaggerated a little bit, I guess that's a sin on Dakka Dakka now considering all the calling out people are doing now every time I post. That's my fething style (I guess...lol I dunno, this is just what I vomit out on my keyboard honestly) and if you don't like it that's what the "ignore" button is for. Go ahead, you won't be the first!

Anyway, as much as I exaggerate there's still a hint of truth in it and I think you all know it. Tyranids, when compared to other 5th edition codices, just don't measure up. A lot of units/upgrades got more expensive that didn't need to be, a lot of new units don't really work out as good as they were intended or just have too much competition in their FOC slot to be worth taking, which results in a lot of lists looking pretty similar, etc. Add in the fact that GW practically nuked their effectiveness with the FAQ, ruling against their favor on almost every rules question and even going out of their way to change how some things worked that people weren't confused about in the first place, they lost even more options and are now a boring mono-build codex that is still missing models for essential units long after the fact. Not that the Tyranid codex had many viable builds in the first place.

I didn't give up on Tyranids immediately, but I saw people trying to make them competitive and it wasn't working. Once everyone else started deciding the codex sucked I was with them and put it all on eBay to fund my Dark Eldar instead, which I think I'm a lot more happy with anyway. But I'm still bitter because I like Tyranids and I've tried twice now to start an army, but I keep giving up on it before really getting anywhere and it's frustrating. No one likes playing with boring, crappy armies, especially boring, crappy armies that present numerous difficulties in actually fielding them since so many units don't have models to represent them yet: tervigons, tyrannofexes, harpies, several characters, lots of bits like stranglewebs and swords/whips for warriors/guard, etc. Funnily enough the only units that got models are ones you'll never use, like pyrovores and venomthropes.

Sidstyler wrote:

Ledabot wrote:You can’t beat feudal Japan for some really cool fluff. They may have suits, but that’s not all I want to love them for. I actually got into tau because of the XV25s sleek lines, and I didn't even know what anime was back then. I so really hope they make them good, because I want my little XV25s to beat as good as they look.

What I really liked most about Tau were the vehicles, the devilfish/hammerhead in particular. It's one of the things that inevitably pushed me over the edge and into collecting Tau, lol. The basic troops looked okay (obviously sci-fi but with a more "modern" look than a lot of the other races), alien auxiliaries sounded cool to me as a nice contrast to the clean, modern Tau troops (giving me the chance to paint something different without collecting a different army), but I really liked the idea of an army with a lot of vehicles in it and Tau didn't disappoint. Space Marines were too boxy, Eldar were too...alien, I guess. Tau were a good compromise, curved and sleek while still looking like tanks.

They had me at "Hammerhead," too.

The ignore button works both ways.

I liked the idea of superior ranged firepower in mobile packaging, coupled with the "greater good", and i guess a sleeker overall look (no text books taped to their armor, etc).

Anyway, any updates on the soon probably part?

Sidstyler wrote:. Tyranids, when compared to other 5th edition codices, just don't measure up. A lot of units/upgrades got more expensive that didn't need to be, a lot of new units don't really work out as good as they were intended or just have too much competition in their FOC slot to be worth taking, which results in a lot of lists looking pretty similar, etc. Add in the fact that GW practically nuked their effectiveness with the FAQ, ruling against their favor on almost every rules question and even going out of their way to change how some things worked that people weren't confused about in the first place, they lost even more options and are now a boring mono-build codex that is still missing models for essential units long after the fact.

Look, there's nothing wrong with the Imperial Guard mate.

Wait.

You were talking about Tyranids. My bad.

((Hmmmm, same author. Anyone else raise their eyebrows at that? And before ya'll call me a hater look below. CSMs and Tyranids. The company hates me for no reason ))

DarkStarSabre wrote:

Look, there's nothing wrong with the Imperial Guard mate.

Wait.

You were talking about Tyranids. My bad.

((Hmmmm, same author. Anyone else raise their eyebrows at that? And before ya'll call me a hater look below. CSMs and Tyranids. The company hates me for no reason ))

So it's all your fault

Get him!

Please?

I'd place the new Tau release after the 6th Edition. After Necrons its probably going to be Black Templars and then their going straight into Chaos with (what seems to be) both Chaos Legions and the Chaos Marine Codex, just to fit it all in before new editions release. Dark Angels will probably be squeezed in their as well.

Afterwards it would probably be Tau or Eldar.

But Tau do need a bit of heavy editing in both points and models and rules. Vehicles need a cut in points across the board and the Hammer Head and Piranha need a better variety of armaments. If GW bucks the trend and they don't make a flyer plastic, then they'd probably let the hammer heads be squadroned.

And a better variety of ranged weaponry also. Markerlight rules also need to be updated and revised.

Standard troops also need a way to quickly duck out of combat.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:Standard troops also need a way to quickly duck out of combat.

Or a stand and shoot similar to WHFB

After the Valkyrie, the Storm Raven, the Dark Eldar flyer and the Necron thing a flyer for Tau seems pretty obvious.

Then again, so seemed plastic Rhinox Riders

Enigma Crisis wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:

Lord Poison wrote:I do hope they go in a more anime direction, I can see thats what they were trying to do, but put too much of their own idea in there and it didn't work properly.
I'd play tau in a heartbeat if I could convert the suits to resemble some of my favorite macha animes, well let me rephrase that, make it a tad easier.
I know they're not, but one can dream

They need to go less in an anime direction and more of a Feudal-Japan-in-space direction.

^ This. I reall like the Feudal Japan style they have in their fluff makes them more unique and that the come from a Eastern Side of the Universe even paralleled that.

if they do it right, which they rarely do
I just wanted an anime themed army, bad enough I have to play against armies I can't stand but I at least want to paint models I can stand and I'd love to paint something anime-esque and with rules not done by mat ward
(even if I can just convert them to be more animeish, at least easier then it is now, then that would be great)

Hox:

No, No, No, No, No.

Never, in fact!

And while we're at it, No Zoids either!

Yes, I do believe that Tau can be modelled and painted as an Anime themed army, but their ascthetic is generally more rounded than the picture you posted. I would not have done the Tau army I have seen here with the big heads - despite the amazing transfer on the Devilfish - although I think it has been done very well.

Give me enough time to get home at Christmas and use my airbrush and you may see some Tau vehicles and battlesuits with a white/two tone grey/black urban camo scheme with a little Patlabor twist to it. (No, that does not mean building a Patlabor kit, adding 3 Tau Rail Cannon to one of the arms, and calling it a 'Tau Titan'! )

/

Lord Poison wrote:

Enigma Crisis wrote:

FrozenSoul80 wrote:

Lord Poison wrote:I do hope they go in a more anime direction, I can see thats what they were trying to do, but put too much of their own idea in there and it didn't work properly.
I'd play tau in a heartbeat if I could convert the suits to resemble some of my favorite macha animes, well let me rephrase that, make it a tad easier.
I know they're not, but one can dream

They need to go less in an anime direction and more of a Feudal-Japan-in-space direction.

^ This. I reall like the Feudal Japan style they have in their fluff makes them more unique and that the come from a Eastern Side of the Universe even paralleled that.

if they do it right, which they rarely do
I just wanted an anime themed army, bad enough I have to play against armies I can't stand but I at least want to paint models I can stand and I'd love to paint something anime-esque and with rules not done by mat ward
(even if I can just convert them to be more animeish, at least easier then it is now, then that would be great)

I understand where you are coming from I love painting my Tau. I would love more options for the crisis suits to make diverse suits.. Some samurai looking ones or anime/gundam looking ones. Though we might still have to customize them over the top to make them more anime-like.

Conrad Turner wrote:Hox:

No, No, No, No, No.

Never, in fact!

And while we're at it, No Zoids either!

Yes, I do believe that Tau can be modelled and painted as an Anime themed army, but their ascthetic is generally more rounded than the picture you posted. I would not have done the Tau army I have seen here with the big heads - despite the amazing transfer on the Devilfish - although I think it has been done very well.

Give me enough time to get home at Christmas and use my airbrush and you may see some Tau vehicles and battlesuits with a white/two tone grey/black urban camo scheme with a little Patlabor twist to it. (No, that does not mean building a Patlabor kit, adding 3 Tau Rail Cannon to one of the arms, and calling it a 'Tau Titan'! )

/

Aww. I love the armored core games. I would love to have a suit building mechanic though in terms of the suits, like a light/medium/heavy that allow you to carry certain weapons and a certain amount of them. No stealth suits, you take a light suit and you pay for the stealth add on. I see the amazing levels of customization on lots of other units in other armies so I dont think its too much to ask for. Every upgrade has bits to represent (That look good. not "hey look heres a box on top of a suit that looks like a box with legs, now you get ____"). I'd really like to see them go heavily into this. I know its never going to happen though, instead they will add a bunch of new species as auxiliaries and release new predesigned suits like FW is doing now.

Sadly true, Hox. Would really like to see more of a "Here are the tools to build your army the way you see fit from a fewer number of starting blocks, but way more options, now go get busy" attitude from GW. Just not going to hold my breath, that's all. Of course, you'd still have to limit things on what weapons things could have, otherwise you would get people saying "OK, I have a squad of 10 light battlesuits with the stealth upgrade and sniper rifles with 72" range, Str9, AP4, Large Blast, Assault 3 which can be fired even if they move. Personally, I like painting an army with a theme and not just using colour to make my models stand out from other peoples. Now I am starting to get into actually playing, this will affect my choice of what models to buy as well. Seems most people are not that enthusiastic about Necron Deathmarks for example, but I can't wait to get them to add a little difference to how my force will play.

Yes, I think that the battlesuits could have gotten more attention from GW, and bemoan the fact that FW have produced much better looking suits. But at least that gives us the chance to model something our way that 'counts as' one of their suits, which at least gives a few more options. And although I understand that - especially when the moulds for the Tau were designed - there are limitations as to what and how you can make as a commercially viable plastic kit, these are much less than they were when the Tau were origianlly released.

We can only hope that some more care and thought will be taken over the re-release of Tau when they get their new codex, as has just happened with Necrons recently. I may not agree with all of the decisions that the models have gone in, but at least it is a step up from where they were. (with the exception of the flayed ones, of course! )

FrozenSoul80 wrote:I actually saw a picture a few weeks ago of all the things a Tau Firewarrior carries with him, but I can't for the life of me find it. He looked very Space Samurai and very awesome. I certainly hope that's the direction GW will take the Tau. It would fit better with the whole "grim dark" thing GW tries to push.

I think it's in the 5th ed hardback rulebook under the Tau page. I'll take more feudal Japanese influence over anime mecha robots kawaii desu that some posters want. The Forgeworld suits are a nice compromise.

Conrad Turner wrote:Sadly true, Hox. Would really like to see more of a "Here are the tools to build your army the way you see fit from a fewer number of starting blocks, but way more options, now go get busy" attitude from GW. Just not going to hold my breath, that's all. Of course, you'd still have to limit things on what weapons things could have, otherwise you would get people saying "OK, I have a squad of 10 light battlesuits with the stealth upgrade and sniper rifles with 72" range, Str9, AP4, Large Blast, Assault 3 which can be fired even if they move. Personally, I like painting an army with a theme and not just using colour to make my models stand out from other peoples. Now I am starting to get into actually playing, this will affect my choice of what models to buy as well. Seems most people are not that enthusiastic about Necron Deathmarks for example, but I can't wait to get them to add a little difference to how my force will play.

Yes, I think that the battlesuits could have gotten more attention from GW, and bemoan the fact that FW have produced much better looking suits. But at least that gives us the chance to model something our way that 'counts as' one of their suits, which at least gives a few more options. And although I understand that - especially when the moulds for the Tau were designed - there are limitations as to what and how you can make as a commercially viable plastic kit, these are much less than they were when the Tau were origianlly released.

We can only hope that some more care and thought will be taken over the re-release of Tau when they get their new codex, as has just happened with Necrons recently. I may not agree with all of the decisions that the models have gone in, but at least it is a step up from where they were. (with the exception of the flayed ones, of course! )

True. As for the tiny stealth suits with cannons, thats as simple as not giving big guns to the small suit sizes. Give them miniguns or an equivalent or some sort of flak gun that does more hits the closer you are to the enemy. Railguns can be taken as shoulders on the medium size and shoulders/arms on the large. Prohibit spam with cost.

Hox wrote:

Conrad Turner wrote:Sadly true, Hox. Would really like to see more of a "Here are the tools to build your army the way you see fit from a fewer number of starting blocks, but way more options, now go get busy" attitude from GW. Just not going to hold my breath, that's all. Of course, you'd still have to limit things on what weapons things could have, otherwise you would get people saying "OK, I have a squad of 10 light battlesuits with the stealth upgrade and sniper rifles with 72" range, Str9, AP4, Large Blast, Assault 3 which can be fired even if they move. Personally, I like painting an army with a theme and not just using colour to make my models stand out from other peoples. Now I am starting to get into actually playing, this will affect my choice of what models to buy as well. Seems most people are not that enthusiastic about Necron Deathmarks for example, but I can't wait to get them to add a little difference to how my force will play.

Yes, I think that the battlesuits could have gotten more attention from GW, and bemoan the fact that FW have produced much better looking suits. But at least that gives us the chance to model something our way that 'counts as' one of their suits, which at least gives a few more options. And although I understand that - especially when the moulds for the Tau were designed - there are limitations as to what and how you can make as a commercially viable plastic kit, these are much less than they were when the Tau were origianlly released.

We can only hope that some more care and thought will be taken over the re-release of Tau when they get their new codex, as has just happened with Necrons recently. I may not agree with all of the decisions that the models have gone in, but at least it is a step up from where they were. (with the exception of the flayed ones, of course! )

True. As for the tiny stealth suits with cannons, thats as simple as not giving big guns to the small suit sizes. Give them miniguns or an equivalent or some sort of flak gun that does more hits the closer you are to the enemy. Railguns can be taken as shoulders on the medium size and shoulders/arms on the large. Prohibit spam with cost.

Exactly. The 10 man force would be neat, except when you lose one, you just lost 10% of your force. Limit hard points like they do on the suits now, make some weapons cost more hardpoints. Size limit particular weapons to suit sizes, and supports for things like stealth become less effective the larger the suit they are on.

Small, med, large suit sizes. Each with basic stat modifiers. Different level pilots with different stats.
3 Points on Small
4 on Med
5 on Large

1 Point spot optional for Jet packs. (Heavy weapon systems limiting this option by auto filling) (Maybe allow an extra point on an upgraded Jet Pack to increase the viability of those short range suit variants)

So, maybe rail rifles run two points on a small. You could put together a small stealth sniper suit but he would lose his mobility, or make him a mobile sniper platform, so no stealth.

Fusion gun, Advanced Jet pack Small. Get in range for melta, get back to some semblance of safety (maybe, haha)

Go heavy, get some plate guns, but limited mobility. Options to go Accurate, or Armored. Etc.

It would probably be difficult to balance. That (balance) I see being the major impediment to a system like this, but think about all the different builds!

idk i think those suits look too cartoony

CpatTom wrote:Exactly. The 10 man force would be neat, except when you lose one, you just lost 10% of your force. Limit hard points like they do on the suits now, make some weapons cost more hardpoints. Size limit particular weapons to suit sizes, and supports for things like stealth become less effective the larger the suit they are on.

Small, med, large suit sizes. Each with basic stat modifiers. Different level pilots with different stats.
3 Points on Small
4 on Med
5 on Large

1 Point spot optional for Jet packs. (Heavy weapon systems limiting this option by auto filling) (Maybe allow an extra point on an upgraded Jet Pack to increase the viability of those short range suit variants)

So, maybe rail rifles run two points on a small. You could put together a small stealth sniper suit but he would lose his mobility, or make him a mobile sniper platform, so no stealth.

Fusion gun, Advanced Jet pack Small. Get in range for melta, get back to some semblance of safety (maybe, haha)

Go heavy, get some plate guns, but limited mobility. Options to go Accurate, or Armored. Etc.

It would probably be difficult to balance. That (balance) I see being the major impediment to a system like this, but think about all the different builds!

Don't forget to mention complicated:

'Taking Suit A gives you options B and C, which gives you access to Wargear 1, 2, 3, and Banana. If you take Banana your suit now takes the characteristics of Suit 'Purple' but cannot take options D and Z, but you can take more Banana's for your suit if you choose to. If you don't take the Banana for Suit A then you can upgrade your Suit to the Woof Variant, and can select Wargear 20, 33, and 945...'

Reading rules -> Brain Hemmorage -> Death of Reader

Instead of over-developing Suits, why not improve the stats on the ones we have now? An Exta Toughness +1 here and maybe a Ballistic Skill +1 there, maybe a bonding knife equipped, throw in some more support weapons and presto! More variety without the splitting head-aches of diversity!

StormForged wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Exactly. The 10 man force would be neat, except when you lose one, you just lost 10% of your force. Limit hard points like they do on the suits now, make some weapons cost more hardpoints. Size limit particular weapons to suit sizes, and supports for things like stealth become less effective the larger the suit they are on.
Small, med, large suit sizes. Each with basic stat modifiers. Different level pilots with different stats.
3 Points on Small
4 on Med
5 on Large
1 Point spot optional for Jet packs. (Heavy weapon systems limiting this option by auto filling) (Maybe allow an extra point on an upgraded Jet Pack to increase the viability of those short range suit variants)

So, maybe rail rifles run two points on a small. You could put together a small stealth sniper suit but he would lose his mobility, or make him a mobile sniper platform, so no stealth.

Fusion gun, Advanced Jet pack Small. Get in range for melta, get back to some semblance of safety (maybe, haha)

Go heavy, get some plate guns, but limited mobility. Options to go Accurate, or Armored. Etc.

It would probably be difficult to balance. That (balance) I see being the major impediment to a system like this, but think about all the different builds!

Don't forget to mention complicated:
'Taking Suit A gives you options B and C, which gives you access to Wargear 1, 2, 3, and Banana. If you take Banana your suit now takes the characteristics of Suit 'Purple' but cannot take options D and Z, but you can take more Banana's for your suit if you choose to. If you don't take the Banana for Suit A then you can upgrade your Suit to the Woof Variant, and can select Wargear 20, 33, and 945.'
Instead of over-developing Suits, why not improve the stats on the ones we have now? An Exta Toughness +1 here and maybe a Ballistic Skill +1 there, maybe a bonding knife equipped, throw in some more support weapons and presto! More variety without the splitting head-aches of diversity!

Tau players are smart. They can figure it out.

Pick pilot level. Ws Bs L I
Pick Suit size. T W Sv
Pick Weapon and Support systems.

Done.

Kilkrazy wrote:If Tau were truly competitive, people would be winning tournaments with them.

How often do Tau armies even place, since the start of 5th edition?

You're asking the wrong question. The real question is "how often are tau armies fielded by skilled players since the start of 5th edition?"

Sure, all else (generalship, list-fu, and a scenario that favors neither side, etc) being equal, a tau army is less likely to win than, say, blood angels or IG. Yet...more than 3-4 different codices, let alone 3-4 builds, show up and place well. Frinstance, at my most recent ard boyz semis, tau advanced to nationals. The difference in skill between any two players is almost always going to exceed the difference in the competitiveness of their armies.

In some ways, the current meta even favors tau. Everyone's geared up for/worried about mechanized armies. Well, tau don't do mech very well, and most anti-mech weapons systems don't AP battlesuits and lack the volume of fire to obliterate infantry, so they benefit from a fundamental mismatch between what they're bringing and what most people are planning to have to deal with. At the same time, most battlesuit weapons are pretty decent anti-transport options without necessarily having been intended for that purpose.

Yes, they face an uphill fight against deepstriking armies, but that's a well understood threat, and one for which even a mediocre tau general has a plan. In the meantime, the more likely scenario is transport rush, and most tournament tau armies can address 7+ light vehicle targets on turn one...that may not wipe the table clean of mech, but it certainly makes a dent, and with good prioritization, it's enough.

Where tau really suffer in tournament settings isn't in relative killiness. Winning isn't the problem. It's all those secondary and tertiary sources of points that kill them. Like my deathwing, they seem to get a lot of "well, I win the primary objective, so that's a W, but my opponent got the secondary and we drew on the tertiary" or whatever. It's a margin of victory problem. They can't seem to win comfortably enough to divert resources away from the primary victory condition.

It's going to be Black Templars next, simply because they are the oldest Imperium codex now and GW won't leave them so out-dated. As it stands, I won't deny, my Black Templars with the errata and the ability to take more weapons in squads, veteran skills, min/max troops, machine spirit vindicators, predators; all the armory access is probably going to go. I just hope they keep the Black Templars as a unique marine force and do not codexify them, I am hoping they do something with the Sword Brethren kind of like Space Wolves, Wolf Guard. Either way, I'm sure the Templars will be getting the update. We don't need it in terms of power, but it would be nice to get access to some 5th edition stuff eventually... lol That is why for the time being my Templars are on the shelf to avoid having to fix them too much when a new codex releases!

march10k wrote:Where tau really suffer in tournament settings isn't in relative killiness. Winning isn't the problem. It's all those secondary and tertiary sources of points that kill them. Like my deathwing, they seem to get a lot of "well, I win the primary objective, so that's a W, but my opponent got the secondary and we drew on the tertiary" or whatever. It's a margin of victory problem. They can't seem to win comfortably enough to divert resources away from the primary victory condition.

In a world where 25-33% of the players are bringing 15+ missile launchers to the table (Missile Launchers that wound a suit on a 2, ignore armor, and cause instant death) and everyone else has something equally absurd (psyrifleman, darklight spam, meltavets) it is the tertiary objectives that are the Tau's problem, sure. Tau are in the toilet for a number of reasons, all of which were already mentioned. Overcosted, underpowered, constricting rules (Pathfinder devilfish especially), obsolete "sergeant" system, and countless more. Yes, Tau can win games. So can the new Sisters. Just because an army can win games against the right opponent/right build, it doesn't mean that they are appropriately balanced with the other armies in the game.

StormForged wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Exactly. The 10 man force would be neat, except when you lose one, you just lost 10% of your force. Limit hard points like they do on the suits now, make some weapons cost more hardpoints. Size limit particular weapons to suit sizes, and supports for things like stealth become less effective the larger the suit they are on.

Small, med, large suit sizes. Each with basic stat modifiers. Different level pilots with different stats.
3 Points on Small
4 on Med
5 on Large

1 Point spot optional for Jet packs. (Heavy weapon systems limiting this option by auto filling) (Maybe allow an extra point on an upgraded Jet Pack to increase the viability of those short range suit variants)

So, maybe rail rifles run two points on a small. You could put together a small stealth sniper suit but he would lose his mobility, or make him a mobile sniper platform, so no stealth.

Fusion gun, Advanced Jet pack Small. Get in range for melta, get back to some semblance of safety (maybe, haha)

Go heavy, get some plate guns, but limited mobility. Options to go Accurate, or Armored. Etc.

It would probably be difficult to balance. That (balance) I see being the major impediment to a system like this, but think about all the different builds!

Don't forget to mention complicated:

'Taking Suit A gives you options B and C, which gives you access to Wargear 1, 2, 3, and Banana. If you take Banana your suit now takes the characteristics of Suit 'Purple' but cannot take options D and Z, but you can take more Banana's for your suit if you choose to. If you don't take the Banana for Suit A then you can upgrade your Suit to the Woof Variant, and can select Wargear 20, 33, and 945...'

Reading rules -> Brain Hemmorage -> Death of Reader

Instead of over-developing Suits, why not improve the stats on the ones we have now? An Exta Toughness +1 here and maybe a Ballistic Skill +1 there, maybe a bonding knife equipped, throw in some more support weapons and presto! More variety without the splitting head-aches of diversity!

It wouldn't be too bad. Look at something as simple as the Dark Eldar Raider. What do they get? Disintegrator cannon, shock prow, torment grenade launchers, enhanced aethersails, retrofire jets, chain snares, grisly trophies, envenomed blades, splinter racks, night shields and flickerfield. All that is JUST for a single dedicated transport. All of them effect some aspect of the vehicle more gameplay wise than different weapons or the like. Giving a player 3 chassis as separate codex entries (Light=Fast Attack, Medium=Elite, Heavy=Heavy Support) and a nice little list of guns to choose from wouldnt be too difficult. Maybe allow adding jets to the mediums make them fast attack and an HQ choice that lets you take light as troops. Thats not mind bustingly complicated (at least to me). I love building custom mechs in games. This just lets me feed two addictions at once.

IdentifyZero wrote:It's going to be Black Templars next, simply because they are the oldest Imperium codex now and GW won't leave them so out-dated./quote]



Oldest Codex, full stop. I still don't see Templars being updated before 6th though, Tau, Dark Angels and Eldar need it more than we do. In fact, I hope with all my heart that we do not receive an update before 6th. Being obsolete the entire next edition because you were released late-ish in the last blows, just ask any Tau player.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Being obsolete the entire next edition because you were released late-ish in the last blows, just ask any Tau player.

Yeah, and it is going to happen to us again.