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Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

I think I saw Andrew put together that bike from his Ravenwing box.
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Lone Cat wrote:ya Marine biker looks like it could be inspired by Poles Winged hussars
where do you get this wing?


The bike is from the Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400016&prodId=prod1060246

I'm not sure if its available separately or with any other models.

leohart wrote:I think I saw Andrew put together that bike from his Ravenwing box.


You just might have Leohart (Dat). I was on the fence with making a bike purchase and he calmly and friendly gave me an extra ravenwing bike he had to kind of help me along with my purchase.

Haha. Now I have to make the force!

I briefly thought of making a 200pt Kill team force of Space wolf bikers. I'm still debating it. haha.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
More work on the Wolves of Fenris:

Added the missing shoulder armor and took a better picture with my cel phone cam as Santa didn't see fit to bring me a digital one this year... the judgmental bstard.


I have some Reaper miniatures weapon accessory packs and thought it would be cool to add a big axe to a model, here is my conversion:


Cut the axe handle with a thin saw blade, then used a pin vise to drill a hole through the hand and into the handles of the axe, I cut a bit of the axe handle off to make it look like a portion was in his hand.



Finished dude! Well I need to do some creative basing, but he is close!


Here are some of the other Space Wolf models.






It wasn't until after I had this model converted to running that I noticed his leg was kicked out too far. I'm not sure I like it like that, but my only option would be to cut through the plastic + superglue + paperclip pinning the leg together. I'm hoping a creative basing solution comes to me so I can fix it.




The initial 7 Space Wolves minus the Bike model, which I removed the dark angels ravenwing feathered icon from the bike. I'm contemplating replacing the head with a SW head or something similar. He's fairly generic as he is now, so I could do almost anything to him.


Let me know what you think!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/29 05:16:11


   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

I don't like the auto photo editor on dakka, it brightens up the image too much.

   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





USA-Illinois- the Chi

Yeah, but if you have dark photos it is great!

 
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Capitansolstice wrote:Yeah, but if you have dark photos it is great!


True, but if you take photos with just enough light, then the brightness is too much!

Not satisfied with my Wolves, I took these tonight:




Worked on the Bike Squad a bit:



I wanted to incorporate the metal models as well as the SM bitz that came with the SM Bike squad pack as well as get them to look like Space Wolves on bikes, shoulder pieces and I'll be adding some other effects to the bikes themselves.



I wanted them to have some dynamic poses, so this is my attempt at a wheelie, its all superglue on the wheel and I used saliva as a quickener. Most people aren't aware that saliva will cause superglue to bond faster.



Four bikes = 100pts + power weapons, What do y'all think?



I'm still progressing on the Mordian Iron Guard, I'm painting and assembling as well as converting more models. I'm out of Plasma rifles and so I'm going to have to find some more. Also I'm trying to figure out how to magnetize some more vehicles so they're even further customizable. More to come!

   
Made in au
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Melbourne, Australia

Nice looking space wolves! You achieved some really dynamic poses. Now lets see some paint on em'.

"Whilst we stand, we fight. Whilst we fight, we prevail. Nothing shall stay our wrath"
Guilliman and the Ultramarines are like Manchester United, everyone hates them because they are so awesome!

 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





USA-Illinois- the Chi

Are you going to add pelts to the bikes?

 
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Flying Pooo wrote:Nice looking space wolves! You achieved some really dynamic poses. Now lets see some paint on em'.


Thank you! It's my first time working with the plastic wolves and the leg idea just seemed obvious to me. I wish I could have some more creative bases, been thinking of getting some spackle and sculpting up an ice sloped type of base, then hit it with white primer, then simply a light blue wash for effect. Still debating though. I'm also worried about the single leg poses strength of attachment to the bases.

Capitansolstice wrote:Are you going to add pelts to the bikes?


They're a couple of things I've been tossing around. The SW battleforce comes with some wolf skulls & tails. I was going to put the skull on the front of the bike and then attach / hang the tales from the skull antennas that come for the back of the bike. Just working out the details about how I could greenstuff and drag lines through it to simulate fur on the bikes. I'm not that familiar with GS and so I want it to look good. I've seen one person roll out GS in thin strips then overlap them for fur. I've also got some capes left over from the Chaos Marrauders I'm looking at adding to the mix. We shall see if it comes out looking good or if I just 'fraggle' it all up.

   
Made in au
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Melbourne, Australia

Hmelrose wrote:[Thank you! It's my first time working with the plastic wolves and the leg idea just seemed obvious to me. I wish I could have some more creative bases, been thinking of getting some spackle and sculpting up an ice sloped type of base, then hit it with white primer, then simply a light blue wash for effect. Still debating though. I'm also worried about the single leg poses strength of attachment to the bases.

That base idea sounds great. I'd say give it a try. Just do a test on one base and see if you like it. Or if you want to go the extra kilometre (metric system FTW) do this with your bases. Catattafish has lots of other awesome tutorials too! Also maybe try pinning to strengthen the one legged pose.


"Whilst we stand, we fight. Whilst we fight, we prevail. Nothing shall stay our wrath"
Guilliman and the Ultramarines are like Manchester United, everyone hates them because they are so awesome!

 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

The bikes look awesome btw. I will try to post some pictures of my finished bikes. I have mixed metal models as well so I know the pain of working with them. The models keep falling to one side due to the weight imbalance.

Regarding purchasing bikes, you should check on ebay or dakka swap shop first. The reason is bike is very underrated so getting them brand new at 50% off or more is very easy.
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Flying Pooo wrote:
Hmelrose wrote:[been thinking of getting some spackle and sculpting up an ice sloped type of base, then hit it with white primer, then simply a light blue wash for effect.

That base idea sounds great. I'd say give it a try. Just do a test on one base and see if you like it. Or if you want to go the extra kilometre (metric system FTW) do this with your bases. Catattafish has lots of other awesome tutorials too! Also maybe try pinning to strengthen the one legged pose.


Yeah, I got to thinking today and I'm not sure of the life cycle of spackle how crumbly it would be, I got to thinking that air drying clay or a similar substance might work better and I don't want to make the base too high or crazy. I think an uneven white block might work, as it would be ice like, yet then it wouldn't be interesting enough.

The link above sends me to an error page, is the username right? I'll do a search for him.

I was thinking of pinning the one leg to the base as well as doing something similar to the bikes. Pin them using something large like a nail or screw.

leohart wrote:The bikes look awesome btw. I will try to post some pictures of my finished bikes. I have mixed metal models as well so I know the pain of working with them. The models keep falling to one side due to the weight imbalance.

Regarding purchasing bikes, you should check on ebay or dakka swap shop first. The reason is bike is very underrated so getting them brand new at 50% off or more is very easy.


Thank you, Thank you.. lol, I was looking at getting the Ravenwing battleforce (but it has all those dang wings) or picking up some bikes from ebay. The SW's get some interesting bonus's for their swift claw bikes, you should keep adding to your P&M blog dude, I'd love to see your work.

I was thinking of the weight issue with half metal/plastic models and I think that adding weights to the bottom of the model, similar to those used for pinewood derby or just washers would give the base more weight itself versus the model on top of it. Right now I don't have the issue of weight to deal with, the one model I have seems to be well balanced.

I looked on ebay and there are some good deals, but I'm holding off. I need to complete this before I go adding to it and build up a list:
SW Battleforce box set = 20 SW ( 7 built to be Grey Hunters w/ Boltgun + Chainsword ) + Drop Pod + Scouts
Add to that 1 SM Scout Sniper box set - not assembled
4 Swift Claw bikes ( 1 w/ Power Sword ).

I think I have 1 SM Attack bike in a box somewhere, but I'll have to find it.

Not sure what my next purchase should be, Termies or a Rhino/Razorback or more bikes.

   
Made in au
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Melbourne, Australia

Hmelrose wrote:
Flying Pooo wrote:
Hmelrose wrote:[been thinking of getting some spackle and sculpting up an ice sloped type of base, then hit it with white primer, then simply a light blue wash for effect.

That base idea sounds great. I'd say give it a try. Just do a test on one base and see if you like it. Or if you want to go the extra kilometre (metric system FTW) do this with your bases. Catattafish has lots of other awesome tutorials too! Also maybe try pinning to strengthen the one legged pose.

If you want a different air drying clay type thing, why not try Milliput ?
Yeah, I got to thinking today and I'm not sure of the life cycle of spackle how crumbly it would be, I got to thinking that air drying clay or a similar substance might work better and I don't want to make the base too high or crazy. I think an uneven white block might work, as it would be ice like, yet then it wouldn't be interesting enough.

The link above sends me to an error page, is the username right? I'll do a search for him.

I was thinking of pinning the one leg to the base as well as doing something similar to the bikes. Pin them using something large like a nail or screw.


Link not working? Here is a direct link to the Youtube video.




Or here is something I just thought of now. You could make this look Icy... Link below. (When I try to get tricky with links they don't work)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412037.page

And pinning the legs should work.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/31 03:52:53


"Whilst we stand, we fight. Whilst we fight, we prevail. Nothing shall stay our wrath"
Guilliman and the Ultramarines are like Manchester United, everyone hates them because they are so awesome!

 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

I think termies, razorback or bikes are all good options. Most people who run SW do run Wolf Guard (termies) with long fang (devastator squads).

Now, if you don't like the extra wings stuff, do buy that box anyway since it is the cheapest option to get all those stuff. The wings and stuff is on a separate sprue and I will be very interested in trading some of my bits for those since I need them to spice up my bikes. Even if you don't need them, selling them off on ebay will recoup a couple of dollar each so.

Anyway, I made a post in my P&M blog. Now I need to finish some more bikes.
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Flying Pooo wrote: posted some really cool stuff!


That youtube video was epic. I've been working with cork board and looking at resin for casting miniatures, yet I never thought to use it as a basing material! That was awesome!

I was looking on the swap shop and saw this post: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/415347.page#3732709 the basing looks very similar, but I don't think the asking price is low enough, looks to me he's asking just about list price for all of that, I might as well buy it new. hmm..

leohart wrote:I think termies, razorback or bikes are all good options. Most people who run SW do run Wolf Guard (termies) with long fang (devastator squads).

Now, if you don't like the extra wings stuff, do buy that box anyway since it is the cheapest option to get all those stuff. The wings and stuff is on a separate sprue and I will be very interested in trading some of my bits for those since I need them to spice up my bikes. Even if you don't need them, selling them off on ebay will recoup a couple of dollar each so.

Anyway, I made a post in my P&M blog. Now I need to finish some more bikes.


I was thinking a Fast Attack SW force, so the bikes and land speeders from the Ravenwings would be good, but I'm still up in the air. I know I'd need some armor at some point. Termies are slow, so I need to get them into the fight fast whether by Drop pod or something else I'm not sure. I need to play a few games with these guys and see how I like the game and where I want to go with them.

Its good to know the Ravenwing portions come on a separate sprue, makes the decision to buy the box set easier and if you have some SW bitz then I'd happily do some trades with you.

I saw the pics you posted on your P&M blog! Very nice!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/31 05:33:42


   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

I don't have SW bits but I know that Max (also at GW Tomball) is getting rid of his NIB Ravenwing Battleforce. So, you can totally grab that box from him for cheap. No need to strip or anything.

Either that or get even more bikes (no land speeder or attack bike) from Trevor. You need some heavy stripping and rebuilding though since his stuff is painted and plastic-glued.

I say, pass by on a crowed day and see Max to see if you can get that Ravenwing box from him. I need to recheck my current inventory to make sure I am not over-buying (which seems to be the case given that my entire desk is now filled to the brim with unbuilt models). :( Dang ebay and dakka.
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

leohart wrote:I don't have SW bits but I know that Max (also at GW Tomball) is getting rid of his NIB Ravenwing Battleforce. So, you can totally grab that box from him for cheap. No need to strip or anything.

Either that or get even more bikes (no land speeder or attack bike) from Trevor. You need some heavy stripping and rebuilding though since his stuff is painted and plastic-glued.

I say, pass by on a crowed day and see Max to see if you can get that Ravenwing box from him. I need to recheck my current inventory to make sure I am not over-buying (which seems to be the case given that my entire desk is now filled to the brim with unbuilt models). :( Dang ebay and dakka.


I'm still thinking about it, need to check my finances and I just got the word that I'm getting all my old models + some extra back from friends I had gifted them to about 6 years ago.This is happening tomorrow! So I'll need to do inventory and let you know. I used to have IG, Space wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Nids. Then with Fantasy I had Brettonians, Mercs, etc.. I'll just have to see what I get. I know they had Chaos and more, so I may be getting all their old stuff as well. Its exciting!

Played two 200pt Kill team Scenarios with my Space wolves versus LeoHart ( Dark Angels ) & with Luna Havoc observing/helping out. Big thanks go out to both of them for helping me to relearn this game at Fat Ogre Games & Comics in The Woodlands, Texas. Before this I hadn't played a game of 40K in almost 12 or more years, 2nd edition.










Great games played today!

   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

desperatly i wait for more mordian goodness... i don´t want to sound unthankfull for these nice spacewolves...but well they are no match for the coolness of mordians...eh?^^

   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Viktor von Domm wrote:desperatly i wait for more mordian goodness... i don´t want to sound unthankfull for these nice spacewolves...but well they are no match for the coolness of mordians...eh?^^


You're right, I need to get back to the Mordians. I just needed to get some models on the table and play some games. I have the bad habit of having too many ideas and then I go for it. I have a ton of projects going on right now:

1) Mordian Iron Guard IG
2) Fenris IG
3) Catachan IG
4) Cadian IG
5) Space Wolves
6) Warmachine: Cygnar
7) Warmachine: Mercenaries
8) Warmachine: Menoth
9) Warmachine: Khador

All of these models are in various stages of paint and assembly. I've got a lot going on and I need to spend a day or two taking pictures of my other models and uploading them to Dakka. Not to mention all the models I'll hopefully be picking up later today, which should include more of the above and hopefully my old Space Wolves and IG which just so happened to include a bunch of Praetorian Guard.

Then I'll just need to take more pictures, create more albums on here and upload them all. lol.

   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

i totally can recommend making differnt albums for the gallery... makes it easier for you and us to follow your stuff...and if needed look it up back later on...

yep i know such backlists... somehow sometimes the amount of projects puts a serious damper to my own wanted productivity...

also looking forward to see those much talked and less seen warmahcine stuff of yers...as it is perhaps known...i have that thing with rivtes and steam going on^^ and those are quite the cool incarnations of both most of the time^^


   
Made in de
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany

subscribed! awsome conversions here!

LOOK!! a shameless self-promotion! (gasp!)
My ORK!-Blog here on dakka And if you need a good conversion or a paintjob... My commission blog

[

Looking for Painting & Modelling advice? Click here! 
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Viktor von Domm wrote:i totally can recommend making differnt albums for the gallery... makes it easier for you and us to follow your stuff...and if needed look it up back later on...

yep i know such backlists... somehow sometimes the amount of projects puts a serious damper to my own wanted productivity...

also looking forward to see those much talked and less seen warmahcine stuff of yers...as it is perhaps known...i have that thing with rivtes and steam going on^^ and those are quite the cool incarnations of both most of the time^^



Ask and ye shall receive:

1) Mordian Iron Guard IG
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-20691_Mordian%20Iron%20Guard%20Ig%20Army%20Progress.html

2) Fenris IG
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-21946_Fenris%20Ig%20Concept.html

3) Catachan IG
4) Cadian IG
5) Space Wolves
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-22471_Space%20Wolves.html
6) Warmachine: Cygnar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-20967_Warmachine%3A%20Cygnar.html

7) Warmachine: Mercenaries
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-20968_Warmachine%3A%20Mercenary.html

8) Warmachine: Menoth
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-22657_Warmachine%3A%20Menoth.html

9) Warmachine: Khador
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-22658_Warmachine%3A%20Khador.html


I need to get a better camera and better lighting, I've been using my cel phone and some desk lamps or the kitchen table lights. Its not ideal for taking good pics of models.

I've also got a hobby / conversion / basing / modeling / interesting bitz album:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-50179-22189_Hobby%20Conversion%20Bitz.html
5lb bag of aquarium sand for $5, beats buying Citadel or any other brand of sand/gravel basing material.


Nice Terrain piece from the Aquarium set at a local pet store, lots of buildings and interesting terrain pieces can be found as reptile or fish aquarium pieces. All those plastic plants can be used for foliage, basing, terrain, forests etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrMerlin wrote:subscribed! awsome conversions here!


Thank you for subscribing good sir! I've enjoyed your work here as well!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 12:49:43


   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

thanks hmelrose, like the many different galleries...specially the hobby conversion bitz one... they actually let you take pics in the petshop? lol... bet they thought you were weird^^

but you showed some very inspirational stuff right there! and for that price a true icing on the cake... boulders or hills are something i will truly not bother now to built my own out of styrofoam... it is much easier to just walk and pay for the lot...

   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Viktor von Domm wrote:thanks hmelrose, like the many different galleries...specially the hobby conversion bitz one... they actually let you take pics in the petshop? lol... bet they thought you were weird^^

but you showed some very inspirational stuff right there! and for that price a true icing on the cake... boulders or hills are something i will truly not bother now to built my own out of styrofoam... it is much easier to just walk and pay for the lot...


I do what I want!

Haha, I take pics wherever I want to and if they ask I tell them I'm trying to get ideas for my aquarium setup at home (Which I don't have). They can only ask me to leave and I doubt they'd want that. I don't mind if people think I'm weird, if I see something cool I could use for the hobby and get cheap, then I take a pic of it, go home, and look at it next to my models or online for a more indepth info/review. If its looks good enough then I'll consider it. That Aquarium sand is a no brainer for basing material and comes in several different colors.

These glass beads are usually sold for double the price if not more at hobby shops, people use them as counters or to notate wounds or play with in Magic The Gathering or for Focus in Warmachine, buying a large bag from a pet store, then reselling the excess to friends is a great way to recoup the money spent and make everyone happy.


Glad you like the galleries. I've been working on trying to upload more pics, but Dakka's 10 pic per upload limit is tough to work with, especially if I have these images already uploaded elsewhere. All that copy/paste of data tends to get old after awhile. And, I haven't even uploaded pics of all my games I've played! So many images to upload/take as well as models to paint/convert.

Thank you for all your input and for just being awesome!

   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

Those Warmachine Menoth models look sweet. I am a sucker for awesome painted models versus competitiveness. :(

If I ever start WarMachine, it is probably Menoth.
   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

leohart wrote:Those Warmachine Menoth models look sweet. I am a sucker for awesome painted models versus competitiveness. :(

If I ever start WarMachine, it is probably Menoth.


Menoth has a lot of cloaks and religious zeal/look to them, similar to your Dark Angels with Robes. They also have a lot of continuous fire effects which can be pretty brutal in the game. They have a lot of cool looking models, but so do all the factions in Warmachine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 14:54:01


   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

mate see my pics count in my gallery... 1.1k pics... and i don´t even have a good upline... so that has costed me numerous hours for upload...sometimes i just wnat to push everything so slow does it feel...argh^^

yeh those glasbeads...saw them used here and there...

by the way... why not take an old mini of yours...preferably metal always with you (as in it doesnt bend or crack that easy) ... for instance referrence pics... that would make later on the decisions way easier for you...

   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Viktor von Domm wrote:mate see my pics count in my gallery... 1.1k pics... and i don´t even have a good upline... so that has costed me numerous hours for upload...sometimes i just wnat to push everything so slow does it feel...argh^^

yeh those glasbeads...saw them used here and there...

by the way... why not take an old mini of yours...preferably metal always with you (as in it doesnt bend or crack that easy) ... for instance referrence pics... that would make later on the decisions way easier for you...


I completely understand the frustration with the slow uploading of pics to Dakka, I'll definitely check out your galleries again. The glass beads I've seen used to denote counters and wounds on models as well as focus/fury for Warmachine stuff.

I see what you're saying, you want me to have a metal model in the picture for scale when I take pictures of alternate terrain at the random places I go. This I can start doing, though if a girl happens to ask me if thats a marine in my pocket or if I'm just happy to see her... my reply will still be Yes!



Coming up this month (at GW Tomball Crossing ) will be a Kill Team League, Blood in the Badlands campaign and Lucky 13 Apocalypse campaign. I'll need to concentrate on my Space Wolves Kill Team modeling to get ready for the Kill Team league. I'm not sure the Mordians are anywhere close to being ready to participate in an Apocalypse game. Be sure to check out my local stores facebook page and click 'Like' It'll help them out.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/295114300504938/#!/GWTomballCrossing


   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

my reply will still be Yes!
rofl^^

   
Made in us
Doc Brown





Spring, Tx

Viktor von Domm wrote:
my reply will still be Yes!
rofl^^




Making progress on my 200pt Kill Team for the small league at the GW Tomball Store

5 Grey Hunters (1w/Flamer) 75pts
3 Swiftclaw Bikes 75pts
1 Swiftclaw Attack Bike ( w/ Heavy Bolter ) 30pts
Total: 180pts

I'm playing around with the last 20 pts




Automatically Appended Next Post:


Lukas the Trickster conversion using bits from the space wolves battleforce box and a furred cloak piece from the Chaos Marauders. You can see the Lightning claw and plasma pistol arm from the sprue and a regular head from it as well, this conversion fits the requirements of the Lukas model in the book and can easily be made from any SW Squad sprue.


I decided to forgo the dynamic leg poses in order to get more Wolves ready for battle faster.


Wolves with heads! Now, what weapons?


Trying to decide how I want these guys to all come together. I prefer WYSISYG modeled forces, that helps me to lessen confusion among all parties.


Space Wolves Progress Bike Conversion! Choppers! By cutting with a jewelers saw at the join of the wheels after they're glued together you can then use plasticard tubing to extend the front fork of the bikes. I filled the tube with Green Stuff, then after it set I pinned them to the bikes for extra support. You'll want to tape the tubes together when you cut them so you get the exact same length each time. You will need to trim up the triangle angled plastic piece on the bottom of the twin boltguns so that they point forward. As well you'll need to angle the torso of the model forward so they're sitting upright. I added a powerfist for awesomeness!




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/06 07:01:46


   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

Awesome sauce on those bikers and everything else as well. I have found WYSIWYG works awesome against people who value WYSIWYG (like me). For others, not so much.

Powerfist is the way to go (all the time). If you are getting power weapon for your sergents, go for powerfists. It deters their special characters from charging and he cannot be singled out and thus will last for as long as necessary.
   
 
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