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N'Ferno wrote:

Hello,

If you wish to continue to back this project, we are having an issue with the current support/funding aspect of this service. At the moment, please "Like us" on our Facebook page for updated information shortly -

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Soda-Pop-Miniatures/99556434458

Thanks everyone

-Soda Pop Team

Hmm, seems non controversial for now

But cheap shot at getting some facebook likes

plastictrees wrote:Why does this sadden you? Both articles seemed pretty level headed, I was definitely expecting something more hysterical. What is being projected on to this game concept? It's specifically about alien tentacle monsters raping teenage school girls. I'm not saying that its existence is going to warp innocent minds, but it is super fething creepy.

I wish you hadn't used the word 'specifically', because that would mean the game is about raping school girls. It's not. In fact nothing written in any of the documentation says anything about that. The closest you get is "snatching" girls. Is it playing in the Hentai genre? Of course it is - because it's a parody of that genre. As far as the articles go, that first one spiralled off into rape cover-ups in the church and PTSD and how many women get abused and so on - none of which has much to do with this game, other than tangential links to the thing it is parodying.

Actually, its not Sodapop who canned it. It was Kickstarter.

From their Facebook:

Soda Pop Miniatures wrote: I wont promote anarchy and fire and pitchforks, but I wont stop a series of mails protesting this decision - we will try our appeals from our end, but I will be working on a PLAN B right away

The email I received mentions that Kickstarter has suspended the project.

I suppose if Soda Pop had canceled it the message would had been worded differentlly.

Edit : Too slow, Cyporiean beat me to it..

If I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project. I applaud their decision.

I understand some people are upset by it, but to me it was the right call.

I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone- however, I'd like to think I have just as much right to express it here as anyone who thinks this game is an awesome idea.

Fortunately, in my view, Kickstarter shares the feeling that this is not an appropriate project to be raising funds for on their site, and as that is their decision, have pulled it from their site.

This is no way keeps Soda Pop from raising funds through their own website, a Facebook campaign, or similar... but Kickstarter has the right to choose what projects to allow, and disallowing this one for fundraising there is in my opinion the right call to make.

It's a little (a lot?) unpopular sometimes to say "I think this goes too far" but that's my take on this game. I'm not saying I would do anything or be up in arms about others wanting it; however, if it was my decision to allow it to raise funds on my website, I would choose to disallow it, just as Kickstarter has done.

For those wanting to support it, I'm sure they'll find an alternative means of raising funds, and still be able to produce it- just not through Kickstarter.

So, good call, Kickstarter!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

plastictrees wrote:Why does this sadden you? Both articles seemed pretty level headed, I was definitely expecting something more hysterical. What is being projected on to this game concept? It's specifically about alien tentacle monsters raping teenage school girls. I'm not saying that its existence is going to warp innocent minds, but it is super fething creepy.

I wish you hadn't used the word 'specifically', because that would mean the game is about raping school girls. It's not. In fact nothing written in any of the documentation says anything about that. The closest you get is "snatching" girls. Is it playing in the Hentai genre? Of course it is - because it's a parody of that genre. As far as the articles go, that first one spiralled off into rape cover-ups in the church and PTSD and how many women get abused and so on - none of which has much to do with this game, other than tangential links to the thing it is parodying.

The first article referenced rape culture, which I think a genre that trivialises rape can definitely be considered to contribute to. I think the claim of "parody" is pretty tenuous, I think they are pretty shrewdly walking a line that lets them reach the "I'm just going to take these cards to my room for five minutes for no reason" market and the "haha, isn't it hilarious that I'm playing this game based on on this ridiculous premise that I certainly am not a fan of but am tangentially aware of due to being a geek hipster. HAHA!" market. If there's a comment being made on the genre it's that "we can make money from this". Does that constitute parody?

Anyway, feel free to continue this scintillating rape VS. jape debate via PM (I'll be holding my breath), I'm sure it's not entirely suitable for News and Rumors.

Can we get Brook or a mod to update the title of the post though?

Seems I made the mistake of having the wrong opinion on social networks and now won't hear the end of it. And I've said far worse before.

This is equivalent with saying Brushfire is a furry game, and then linking it to Beastiality on some random blog.

SP/TB never once mentioned sexual acts, and the art was no worst then anything else Sodapop has put out with the same level of Adult Content as Pokémon.

Was I going to back Tentacle Bento? No, the game just didn't interest me. I might have gone in for the miniatures, but SP's 28mm humans are too small for me to deal with. But I wouldn't have been opposed to playing it, and could have made a mint off of selling it if I still ran an Anime Shop.

But regardless, Censorship pisses me off. Very few things make me angrier, and because of that We are withdrawing support of Kickstarter. Our future projects will find other means of getting funding.

So was it kickstarter that pulled the plug, or soda pop?

d-usa wrote:So was it kickstarter that pulled the plug, or soda pop?

It was Kickstarter.

Note that I didn't say anything about the content in my post- only that I thought it was sometimes difficult to say "this goes too far", and that I wouldn't allow it to raise funds on my site.

I think your reaction is appropriate for what some others are saying, but isn't a true response to what I typed- which is simply that I would not allow them to raise funds on a site that I owned, that I agree with Kickstarter's decision, and that I think the game goes a bit too far. I didn't go into specifics there, and don't feel any need to do so, as this is a hot button topic.

Better to air on the side of sensitivity and class, in my opinion. I recognize that it is my opinion only, which is how I've presented it, and I'd appreciate it if any further response deals with exactly what I've typed- not what others have done so, as the reactions to this topic are many and extreme on both sides.

To summarize what I've said, in my prior post and this one:
1) I applaud the Kickstarter decision
2) If it was my call, I wouldn't allow such a project to raise funds on my site
3) I think it's difficult to come out and say "I think this game goes too far" sometimes, but that is my personal opinion of this game. Thus my stating 1 and 2 above. I am sure that Soda Pop will find alternative funding opportunities and that people that wish to will be able to buy the game. But I think Kickstarter made the right choice here.

And to summarize most explicitly- I never once mentioned "sexual acts" of any kind in my post, which is what you are reacting against in yours. Hence, my saying that you're responding to what others are saying, not what I said specifically, which I have outlined above... and I think is very reasonable.

You are correct Ri, I've removed your quote from my post.

Ah, thank you .

And to comment- I agree with your reaction to people saying that this is necessarily depicting "rape" or the like... I thought about this for a few days before posting (my first post is on page 1, 5/9) and still haven't laid out my thoughts on that.

Honestly, it's a grey area, and it's going to be different for different people. Hence, my reasons more being for airing on the said of "sensitivity and class" as I said above, and basically making a personal call as to what to allow on my site (if I owned Kickstarter), rather than an absolute "This is right/wrong/etc" and applying that to everyone.

My personal take is that it just goes a bit too far for me to, personally, feel comfortable with it. My mark is usually "Would I feel completely embarrassed to show this to my wife?" and that one doesn't pass muster . Note, this is completely personal and subjective, and somewhat separate from my "Would I allow this to raise funds on my site?" consideration.

Kickstarter may have simply done it to protect their bottom line / due to outside pressure, but I'd rather think they just felt it went a little too far for what they want to have raising funds on their site... impossible to know without their giving their reasoning, though.

What specific rule did this game break?

I'm sure that there's a generic one that Kickstarter can pull out to basically cancel any project for any reason, but I'm curious as to which one it is.

RiTides wrote:
Kickstarter may have simply done it to protect their bottom line / due to outside pressure, but I'd rather think they just felt it went a little too far for what they want to have raising funds on their site... impossible to know without their giving their reasoning, though.

Aye. One of the other issues I have, is they didn't talk to Sodapop at all before shutting it down.

Alpharius wrote:I'm sure that there's a generic one that Kickstarter can pull out to basically cancel any project for any reason

I have a feeling that's all it is- that, basically, they have the right to disallow any campaign that they choose to on their site.

I hope they'll release an explanation as to why, though, particularly as it had picked up so many backers already.

Cyporiean wrote:Aye. One of the other issues I have, is they didn't talk to Sodapop at all before shutting it down.

Agreed... all the more reason that I'd hope an explanation will be forthcoming! If nothing else, but for the sake of companies and backers using their site, to know more of the boundaries of what they will/won't allow.

Not to mention the fact Kickstarter supposedly reviews all projects before accepting and allowing them on their page.

Until more info is released by either side it's all up in the air though.

I can't say I'm surprised or disappointed by this decision, though I am surprised and disappointed by the community for lending such support to this project.

That said, I do think it's a little silly of Kickstarter to allow this project to grow so big before shutting it down, and given that there appears to be strong demand for such a game-- distasteful as I may find it-- I hope that Soda Pop finds some other means of funding and publishing their project. I certainly understand why Kickstarter might not want to be associated with such things, though!

RiTides wrote:If I owned Kickstarter, I would've canned this project. I applaud their decision.

I understand some people are upset by it, but to me it was the right call.

I'm not forcing my viewpoint on anyone- however, I'd like to think I have just as much right to express it here as anyone who thinks this game is an awesome idea.

Fortunately, in my view, Kickstarter shares the feeling that this is not an appropriate project to be raising funds for on their site, and as that is their decision, have pulled it from their site.

Totally agreed. I'm not a fan of the idea that games about tentacle raping (err, "snatching") girls are being funded publicly on kickstarter. Kickstarter made the right call in my opinion, and have maintained my respect for them.

Cyporiean wrote:This is equivalent with saying Brushfire is a furry game, and then linking it to Beastiality on some random blog.

SP/TB never once mentioned sexual acts, and the art was no worst then anything else Sodapop has put out with the same level of Adult Content as Pokémon.

That's a pretty terrible analogy, unless Brushfire is filled with art of sweaty fox people bursting out of bikinis and fondling each other. I think there's a distinct jump from the "fan service" of SP minis and the "two frames from being porn" of SP-TB.

Cyporiean wrote:Was I going to back Tentacle Bento? No, the game just didn't interest me. I might have gone in for the miniatures, but SP's 28mm humans are too small for me to deal with. But I wouldn't have been opposed to playing it, and could have made a mint off of selling it if I still ran an Anime Shop.

But regardless, Censorship pisses me off. Very few things make me angrier, and because of that We are withdrawing support of Kickstarter. Our future projects will find other means of getting funding.

Dakka censors. Most online communities do. They decide who they believe their audience to be and manage content to suit that audience, to one extent or another. Maybe Kickstarter thought that the success of TB would open a door to content they weren't interested in hosting. They didn't ban them from being on the internet, they just (presumably, because we really have no idea) decided that that wasnt the sort of content they were looking to support. I'm hoping that there are a lot of things that make you more angry than mild internet censorship.

Agreed with plastictrees. Kickstarter has a right to not let you try to fund things on their site that they find distasteful. This game presumabley toed the "porn game" line too closely for Kickstarter's professional image.

The problem is that Kickstarter reviews all projects before they're allowed to receive funding.

And the analogy that Brushfire = furries is something they have to deal with because it's Anthropomorphic animals... You have animals standing on hind legs, acting like humans. While it's not smack dab into the dark places of the furry fandom, it does toe the line with that fandom...

ph34r wrote:Agreed with plastictrees. Kickstarter has a right to not let you try to fund things on their site that they find distasteful. This game presumabley toed the "porn game" line too closely for Kickstarter's professional image.

And yet...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ironspike/the-smut-peddler-pre-order-project
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again

I wil say this about the whole porn thing. I was flipping through documentaries and i saw one of the life of.porn actresses. Showed photage of on set domination porn and one of the.rewards was a date with the actresses. That was clearly porn related and though sp's card game was a little low for my tastes i would have loved the limited minis from it. Reality is we need to support progects in our community az its not a easy industry and if people arent willing.to support then it will get.a.lot smaller. Brushfire isnt in my personal tastes.but i still.supported and i will have fun.with the minis. Btw i really hate this phone and all the damn periods so i apologize for that.

Cyporiean wrote:And yet...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ironspike/the-smut-peddler-pre-order-project
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again

I'm not really an expert on them, but I would guess that those games are not about rape?

Leisure Suit Larry is one of the few video games to receive the AO rating by the ESRB, granted it was only one specific version that you could only order from the manufacturer...

And from Smut Peddler:

Smut Peddler wrote:"sex-positive, female-friendly erotic comics from the best and the brightest in the independent small press publishing world,"

So Kickstarter is pro smut and sex, but con insinuated anime rape?

yeah,
I am disappoint...
Tentacle Bento never atually says what the aliens will do to the girls, Just that they are being abducted.

Aliens have been abducting people in popular culture for... well forever.

What did we think they were doing with their probes to this young lady?

Panic...

I for one am glad that someone is thinking of the children. After all, millions of women are raped by tentacled space aliens every year and a card game promoting this vile ... wait, no, that's not it. Hmm. Ahem. After all, millions of women are raped every year as a result of cartoon pornography ... nope, that's not applicable, either. Card games cause rape? Shoot, being self-righteous is harder than I thought it would be ... and some people make it look so easy.

Fact is, this isn't about feminism. This isn't about rape. And Tentacle Bento cannot meaningfully be boiled down to those issues without a good deal of willful misunderstanding if not blatant, puritanical fear-mongering. But it's easy to read Tentacle Bento as a game about sexuality and that quite tragically makes it a tricky business in the unexpectedly culturally backward "free world." The line between something that is creepy, gross, or "downright unnatural" on the one hand and what must be accepted by everyone who is not a bigot on the other hand is quite a moving target. Ask any American or British homosexual over the age of thirty. Frederic Wertham would be proud of Kickstarter today -- maybe we should organize a Kickstarter project to get Batman to stop raping Robin?

Of course, the sex thing completely misses the point -- just like Wertham completely missed the point of comic books. Tentacle Bento is a wink at something that Westerners have held up for the past few decades as evidence that the manga/anime facet of Japanese culture is sick and perverted or at the very least ineffably bizarre. And yet we're unarguably fascinated with it. There's a lot of xenophobia as well as self-hatred (what kind of self-respecting adult can enjoy comics and cartoons?) and sexual hang-ups entangled with the Western response to manga and anime. But instead of engaging those complicated and painful questions, let's just wrap the whole thing up under the label of "protecting women" -- nevermind this is the logic of witch burning (or book burning, in the case of Wertham).

Over the course of being a member of this community and other wargaming and roleplaying and video gaming communities, I've come to realize that so-called "geek culture" is extremely conservative and fundamentalist. Our post-modern narrative of the outsider would lead me to expect that outsiders would be open-minded and self-critical ... but no. The lip service is there but nothing more (even in this thread: it should be evident that "I'm not telling people what they should like but if I had the power to shut this down, I would" is a contradiction). It's "geek culture" in this case, what with anime and card games at stake. But the whole internet is characterized by this strange ideological drag show where doudy prudishness dresses up in the fashionable high heels of tolerance.

Kickstarter's decision in this case, as opaque as the motivations currently are, seems to basically undermine it's own purpose and mission ... or at least the value I had perceived in it. Rather than knocking down barriers between creators and consumers, we just found a poor and contrived "remix" of the old ones. Money. And PR. And "taste" as a function of the lowest common denominator. For all of you who were so bent out of shape about SOPA and PIPA, consider this a microcosmic taste of what the internet is really about with or without the government cooperating with the private sector status quo.

For those that are interested, Sodapop has restarted the campaign on their own website.

http://girls.sodapopminiatures.com/content/fund-tentacle-bento