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 Starfarer wrote:
Are spawn still an entry? Do they take up a FOC slot this codex, and roughly how much do they cost? Are they as crappy as ever, rules wise?

They don't look took bad. Significant drop in points (~3/4 of what they used to be, I think), they have a 5+ invul now (since they are daemons), are actually quite fast (beasts!) instead of slow, and they can profit a good bit from marks. Tzeentch gives them 4++ while Nurgle makes them T6 (with 3 wounds). They still have random attacks, but Rage means they've got a pretty decent pile of Str 5 attacks on the charge. They get a random buff each round in the fight phase, either 4+ armor, or reroll how many attacks they get, or get poisoned attacks.

With the Mark of Nurgle, a squad of 5 of them makes a decent mobile tarpit to throw at the enemy, honestly.

Edit: Actually, looks like they aren't Daemons, so no save means they still have problems staying alive. Still, T6 means a lot of units will still have a rough time against them, and they've got a 1/3 chance of having an armor save once actually in combat.

Surprised that nobody mentioned that (a) Cultists can be marked, and (b) Olbits lost thier invul. I also noticed that Chosen have CCW and Bolt Pistols as well as Bolters, so that idea of loading two units with Plasma and walking them up the board with Abaddon sounds even better now that they can do some decent combat damage if necessary (4A on the charge).

Daemon Weapons are odd. Khorne one gives Rage even though only Khorne marked models can have it, i.e. they already have Rage. The Murder Sword is nice as it the magic flamer.

 mauzer wrote:
chosen lost infiltrate
The same units deep strike
Rhinos cost the same and upgrades to them are cheaper

Scroll is pretty useless, only for tzeentch, you get to use one random power each turn but it hits you with st3 ap1 every time

Thanks. And yeah, the scroll looks pretty silly.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Surprised that nobody mentioned that (a) Cultists can be marked, and (b) Olbits lost thier invul. I also noticed that Chosen have CCW and Bolt Pistols as well as Bolters, so that idea of loading two units with Plasma and walking them up the board with Abaddon sounds even better now that they can do some decent combat damage if necessary (4A on the charge).

Daemon Weapons are odd. Khorne one gives Rage even though only Khorne marked models can have it, i.e. they already have Rage. The Murder Sword is nice as it the magic flamer.

Abaddon with chosen are good. Oblits are daemons so they do get a 5+ save. cultists can be marked however they are so cheap your possibly better with just getting more of them or taking Typhus.

Thanks for the info. Seeing as I play Death Guard, nurgle marked spawn actually sound pretty sweet! I just need to find some cheap models to build some, as I wanted to have a few anyway for bad rolls on the boon chart. Who knew of all the things in the book, I'd be getting excited about spawn?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Surprised that nobody mentioned that (a) Cultists can be marked, and (b) Olbits lost thier invul. I also noticed that Chosen have CCW and Bolt Pistols as well as Bolters, so that idea of loading two units with Plasma and walking them up the board with Abaddon sounds even better now that they can do some decent combat damage if necessary (4A on the charge).

Daemon Weapons are odd. Khorne one gives Rage even though only Khorne marked models can have it, i.e. they already have Rage. The Murder Sword is nice as it the magic flamer.

Oblits have a 5+ invuln from the Daemon USR

 Lord Magnus wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Maybe I'm late to the show, but is there any news on:
Cypher (back or not)?
Huron (changes)?


Thanks!

Huron I am not familiar enough with to tell you differences, No Cypher though.

Sure, his old version was a Chaos Lord, plus:
Hamadrya (provides Warptime)
Tyrant's Claw (Heavy Flamer Power Fist)
Power Axe
personal icon
80 points (more, that is)

The Khorne Axe gives rage because you can take it on a Deamon prince, who would otherwise have no way to get rage.

 mauzer wrote:
Lords cost like a raider with flickerfield

Please don't do this. Just say the points cost. It's not as if we can suddenly play without the Codex if you say that the Lord costs 70 points.

 Captain Roderick wrote:
Hi gents, thanks for answering all these questions.

Slightly more meta, who can deepstrike/outflank/play maneuver shenanigans? Are Rhinos now the same cost as loyalist rhinos? And what has leapt out to you lucky people as being particularly cool, exciting and/or awesome list-wise?

Also, there was something in the rumor mill - a scroll or something - that's meant to be pretty exciting, any gen on that or other character upgrades that're new?

And could we get confirmation on the effects of marks/icons for Khorne and Tzeench? Can Bikes/ Raptors/Terminators use all marks and icons? And I'm guessing still no noise marine weapons available for anything outside the basic cult marine unit?

Regards,
Cap'n R

I haven't looked in detail at the deepstriking/outflanking and things, but I am pretty sure the Hell Drake, all termie armoured units, and all Obliterators and their CC alternatives, Warp Talons (Effectively possessed raptors) and Raptors themselves. I KNOW one of their special Warlord Traits give D3 units infiltrate.

In interesting lists, I believe you could make some cool cult armies, with their perspective characters, as well as a majority deamon/deamon engine army. With cultists and Dark Apostles you could make a religious Word Bearer force, or potentially a cool Alpha Legion army.

The scroll is an item for a psyker which allows you a random new psychic power each turn, at the cost of taking a s3 ap1 hit. (from all of the powers in the rulebook, so there is a lot of potential there, although a lot of randomness)

Termies, Marines, Oblits(and the CC version), Bikes, Raptors, Warp Talons, basically all infantry can take a Mark and Icon, Spawn get marks as well.

Mark of Khorne gives Counter Attack and Rage (+2 attacks on the charge)
Icon gives Furious Charge and re-roll distance

Tzeentch gives +1 to invul, or a 6++ for any unit without one.
Icon gives Soul Blaze to bolt weapons (Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol and CombiBolters

xxxx -Please don't give specific point costs. -Mannahnin for a Lord.

Didn't notice the Daemon USR on Oblits, so thanks for that.

Regarding Huron, he got pretty nice, getting a nice choice of combat weapons, his usual special rules, and the Master of Treachery WT (D3 units Infiltrate).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Nerf list, contd: A terminator may only upgrade his melee or ranged weapon, not both. You want lighting claw? No combi-plasma for you!

Wow. Way in invalidate most of my 40+ Terminators GW.

*claps*

 Lord Magnus wrote:

I haven't looked in detail at the deepstriking/outflanking and things, but I am pretty sure the Hell Drake, all termie armoured units, and all Obliterators and their CC alternatives, Warp Talons (Effectively possessed raptors) and Raptors themselves. I KNOW one of their special Warlord Traits give D3 units infiltrate.

In interesting lists, I believe you could make some cool cult armies, with their perspective characters, as well as a majority deamon/deamon engine army. With cultists and Dark Apostles you could make a religious Word Bearer force, or potentially a cool Alpha Legion army.

The scroll is an item for a psyker which allows you a random new psychic power each turn, at the cost of taking a s3 ap1 hit. (from all of the powers in the rulebook, so there is a lot of potential there, although a lot of randomness)

Termies, Marines, Oblits(and the CC version), Bikes, Raptors, Warp Talons, basically all infantry can take a Mark and Icon, Spawn get marks as well.

Mark of Khorne gives Counter Attack and Rage (+2 attacks on the charge)
Icon gives Furious Charge and re-roll distance

Tzeentch gives +1 to invul, or a 6++ for any unit without one.
Icon gives Soul Blaze to bolt weapons (Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol and CombiBolters

Many thanks for the detail, that's just what I wanted

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Maybe I'm late to the show, but is there any news on:
Cypher (back or not)?
Huron (changes)?


Thanks!

Huron I am not familiar enough with to tell you differences, No Cypher though.

Sure, his old version was a Chaos Lord, plus:
Hamadrya (provides Warptime)
Tyrant's Claw (Heavy Flamer Power Fist)
Power Axe
personal icon
80 points (more, that is)

Ok, did a bunch of research (Huron is super complicated this dex), Here we go

He retains his power axe (For AP2 stuff) but the Tyrants Claw is an AP3 CCW with a heavy flamer built in, which gives +2 strength, Armourbane, Shred, and it is a specialist weapon.

Hamadrya is a Combat Familiar (+2 attacks at s4 ap -) that gives Huron randomly generated Psychic powers every turn.

He has the Chaos Champion special rule (almost all the characters do) which allows him special mutations when he wins challenges. In addition, he can never refuse a challenge.

He has grenades, Power Armour and a 4+ invul

He is LD 10, Fearless, and D3 units infiltrating.

I wrote all this out cuz he is complicated, but I felt an explanation was necessary

EDIT: Had to open 4 copies of the dex to look at the pages of these rules, a lot of it will be easy to remember, but until you get a feel for it, be prepared to flip through the book often for wargear/rules.

If the Icon bearer die's do you lose the bonus to the unit that carried it?

 Nicorex wrote:
If the Icon bearer die's do you lose the bonus to the unit that carried it?

Yup. Its very specific that a single model carries it.

After looking at the Mutilators, I'm not entirely convinced that they're a bad unit, especially with the Mark of Nurgle. They'll still have problems with Demolisher Cannons like Paladins, but with the Mark of Nurgle they're only 6 points more and they still have a lot of versatility, plus they avoid getting instantly splatted by Powerfists and Thunderhammers.

Also a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is only 110 points for T5 W4 A4 with a 3+ save, plus he's Cavalry. I'm going to be running one with a unit or 2 of Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle. Since they're beasts, they'll be able to keep up. Sickening! They're like better Ogryns in my eyes.

 Nicorex wrote:
If the Icon bearer die's do you lose the bonus to the unit that carried it?

Yes

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
After looking at the Mutilators, I'm not entirely convinced that they're a bad unit, especially with the Mark of Nurgle. They'll still have problems with Demolisher Cannons like Paladins, but with the Mark of Nurgle they're only 6 points more and they still have a lot of versatility, plus they avoid getting instantly splatted by Powerfists and Thunderhammers.

Also a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is only 110 points for T5 W4 A4 with a 3+ save, plus he's Cavalry. I'm going to be running one with a unit or 2 of Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle. Since they're beasts, they'll be able to keep up. Sickening! They're like better Ogryns in my eyes.

The Khorne Jugger + Spawn sounds like a real winner, maybe not so hot as Thunderwolves but can fulfil a similar (terror-inducing) role. Awesome!

I think my major problem with the Mutilators is the models... but that's for another thread.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Also a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is only 110 points for T5 W4 A4 with a 3+ save, plus he's Cavalry. I'm going to be running one with a unit or 2 of Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle. Since they're beasts, they'll be able to keep up. Sickening! They're like better Ogryns in my eyes.

Can't do that. An IC with a Mark can't join a unit with a different mark.

 Lord Magnus wrote:
Ok, did a bunch of research (Huron is super complicated this dex), Here we go

Thanks a lot! Looking forward to trying him out!

(edit: also, thanks Godless-Mimicry for the shorter version

 Captain Roderick wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
After looking at the Mutilators, I'm not entirely convinced that they're a bad unit, especially with the Mark of Nurgle. They'll still have problems with Demolisher Cannons like Paladins, but with the Mark of Nurgle they're only 6 points more and they still have a lot of versatility, plus they avoid getting instantly splatted by Powerfists and Thunderhammers.

Also a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is only 110 points for T5 W4 A4 with a 3+ save, plus he's Cavalry. I'm going to be running one with a unit or 2 of Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle. Since they're beasts, they'll be able to keep up. Sickening! They're like better Ogryns in my eyes.

The Khorne Jugger + Spawn sounds like a real winner, maybe not so hot as Thunderwolves but can fulfil a similar (terror-inducing) role. Awesome!

I think my major problem with the Mutilators is the models... but that's for another thread.

Hmm...actually I feel like Chaos Spawn could be pretty sweet versus Thunderwolves, especially Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle.

I typically am not a fan of cross-codex comparisons but most of the time it's easy enough to judge.
Both are fast attack.

Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle: WS3 BS0 S5 T6 W3 I3 A:1D6 LD10 SV-, and they cost six Ork boys' points for one.
Now I'm not gonna lie, the lack of a save really hurts. However to make up for this, they are now Beasts so they move super fast. Granted they have the possibility of a 4+ save in close combat, but this isn't a huge deal. The biggest thing is that they are T6, meaning that you can't ID these bastards unless you have a weapon that just causes instant death
For rules, they are Fearless, cause Fear, and have Rage.

They're superior to Thunderwolves in the Toughness and Wounds category and they're also cheaper which is great. They're the ultimate tarpit unit! Sure they don't have a save, but unless you are bringing power mauls you will be wounding on 6's in close combat, and they'll be wounding on 3+ most of the time.

I'm going to test them out and let you know how it goes!

@Godless- They'd be screening, I don't care if he can join the same unit as them and I already knew that.

Im thinking Fabius Bile will see some play. His enhanced unit (+1str/model) is free and suffers no penalty. He isnt bad against most moderate characters with an enhanced stat line and hes rather cheap.

So is there anything in the codex that would help a person run an alpha legion army? Any units that have rules to reflect them? Alpha legion characters? Anything at all?

Because that is literally the only thing that is keeping me interested in chaos.

What are the special rules and costs of Mutilators, Warp Talons and that strange random scroll?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So is there anything in the codex that would help a person run an alpha legion army? Any units that have rules to reflect them? Alpha legion characters? Anything at all?

Because that is literally the only thing that is keeping me interested in chaos.

Cultists and allies are the only Alpha Legion specific things that stand out. You can also use Huron's rules as a 'count as' in order to guarentee the infiltrate warlord trait. There are no new special characters in the book, you have to do some of the legwork yourself.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle: WS3 BS0 S5 T6 W3 I3 A:1D6 LD10 SV-, and they cost six ork boyz points for one.
Now I'm not gonna lie, the lack of a save really hurts. However to make up for this, they are now Beasts so they move super fast. Granted they have the possibility of a 4+ save in close combat, but this isn't a huge deal. The biggest thing is that they are T6, meaning that you can't ID these bastards unless you have a weapon that just causes instant death
For rules, they are Fearless, cause Fear, and have Rage.

So they have fearless and fear but are not Daemons and so do not have the 5++?!

 Shadox wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Chaos Spawn with the Mark of Nurgle: WS3 BS0 S5 T6 W3 I3 A:1D6 LD10 SV-, and they cost -- points for one.
Now I'm not gonna lie, the lack of a save really hurts. However to make up for this, they are now Beasts so they move super fast. Granted they have the possibility of a 4+ save in close combat, but this isn't a huge deal. The biggest thing is that they are T6, meaning that you can't ID these bastards unless you have a weapon that just causes instant death
For rules, they are Fearless, cause Fear, and have Rage.

So they have fearless and fear but are not Daemons and so do not have the 5++?!

You are correct, they are not Daemons so no 5++. It's unfortunate, but it does also make sense. I do wish that they would have had FnP but I can also see why they didn't include it.

Lesser and Greater Daemons gone or still in the Dex?

Another interesting note is that Oblits and Mutilators are listed as Bulky... so you can stick Abaddon and 3 Mutilators in a Land Raider...

I always used Oblits as a bodyguard for Abbie since they were fearless in 5th... might have to try that again.

Drive me closer I want to rapid fire plasma in their face! Does that mean they can ride in a Rhino and shoot out the top too?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:
Lesser and Greater Daemons gone or still in the Dex?

Gone to the Chaos Daemons codex as allies.