Three US women missing for years rescued in Ohio

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**Monster Rain**

Kilkrazy wrote:
For some reason I read that as "bum people at the stake".

I wish that's what I had said.

**whembly**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
whembly wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Rehabilitation is a fantasy.

That's an awfully broad stroke KK...

I'm sure you mean Rehab for those who commit heinous crimes is a fantasy and you're not talking about things like white-collar crimes. Right?

I dunno have you seen your tax statements recently? I should have limited my statement to violent offenders/kidnappers. The truly fethed up individuals.

As to humans being animals, hotsauce we are animals. An extremely smart, ruthless animal that has dominated it's planet against all comers despite possessing no natural advantage except walking on two legs, thumbs and a larger then average brain. An animal all the same. So I have no problem with putting down a member of our species that has proven it cannot live healthily amongst us. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, the guy who's the subject of this thread. They deserve their day in court, maybe even a couple, with all the best investigative techniques, newest forensic technology and all the evidence that can be found for or against their innocence and to be tried by a jury of their peers. If it's then determined that they need to be "removed" then good. Make it quick, painless and efficient, death has proven to be 100% effective in preventing repeat offenders. If the family takes some small satisfaction in vengeance from the execution good for them, I wish them peace and solace as they continue on without what they've lost. It has no bearing to me, or the belief that certain crimes warrant the highest punishment we can give as a species that dies.

Exalted and concur.

**CoI**

Instead of all these clever ways of executing them, perhaps I have a better solution... just put him/them in GenPop. And before he/they end up there have the tv's on the news channels showing these thing's faces... and which prison they're going to. Death is too good for people who do things like this. I've dealt first hand with women who've been raped, and never as badly as this... what those poor women were forced to go through... there is no punishment severe enough to fit a crime like this. But in a way Hotsauce is right. We're better than all this. I would fully support the death penalty in cases like this, and others where there is 110% proof that they did this. From a confession and the further evidence to go with it, or simply the sort of evidence that can't be denied. And as sad as it is that people get jailed and executed for crimes they didn't commit, to me it's just as sad, if not more so, when someone get's 'let out on good behaviour' and re-offends. Often with the added bonus of more dead bodies, broken families and destroyed victims. Compare the violent re-offence rates with dead or raped victims to 'poor bastards getting the shaft' rate. Then double the innocent person executed. I'll be willing to bet that you still won't get close to as many innocent men jailed/killed as victims from people who should have been executed in the first place.

**Alfndrate**

Let's get off of the three guys that did this. It was and always been 1 guy, Ariel Castro. His brothers had nothing to do with this. Please, let's amend and focus our hate.

**cincydooley**

Alfndrate wrote:
Let's get off of the three guys that did this. It was and always been 1 guy, Ariel Castro. His brothers had nothing to do with this. Please, let's amend and focus our hate.

Alf-

How far is Lakewood from where this happened? I know it's up there in the Cleveland burbs but wasn't sure how far outlying it was.

**Easy E**

Good thing we didn't just tar and feather all of them right away. Then we would have looked really silly.

**Frazzled**

Would have taken more tar too.

**Alfndrate**

cincydooley wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
Let's get off of the three guys that did this. It was and always been 1 guy, Ariel Castro. His brothers had nothing to do with this. Please, let's amend and focus our hate.

Alf-

How far is Lakewood from where this happened? I know it's up there in the Cleveland burbs but wasn't sure how far outlying it was.

It's like 4 miles from 2200 Seymour Ave (the block that this took place on) to the border of Lakewood. It's 2 miles from where I grew up (the W. 98th area of Cleveland).

I still go down by Seymour every Thanksgiving at my cousin's house (he lives about 10 streets away).

It's pretty close. Lakewood is literally surrounded by Cleveland in terms of suburbs.

Here is a nifty map I made up.

Farthest left is roughly the neighborhood I live in now. The next 2 along W. 117th is the border of Cleveland and Lakewood, the next one moving right is right around where I grew up as a child, and the farthest mark to the right is the 2200 block of Seymour Ave.

**Gitzbitah**

Looks like the prosecutor is indeed going for the death penalty on 5 counts of murder.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22475771

Murdering 5 of your own children by beating their mother while they are in the womb and starving her actually is, in my mind, more horrible than the 3 girls being imprisoned and raped for that long. And short of it happening to even more girls, I didn't think anything could top that.

Every time I think this is the most disgusting story I've ever read, it just goes and gets worse.

**Dreadclaw69**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22475771

Ohio prosecutors may seek execution for Ariel Castro

Ohio prosecutors have said they plan to seek aggravated murder charges that could carry the death penalty against the man suspected of imprisoning three women for about a decade.

The charges relate to alleged forced miscarriages suffered by one victim.

Ariel Castro, 52, was arraigned in court earlier for the kidnap and rape of Amanda Berry, 27, Gina DeJesus, 23 and Michelle Knight, 32.

Ms Berry escaped on Monday and was able to raise the alarm.

'Torture chamber'
On Thursday, Cuyahoga County prosecutor Tim McGinty said the murder charges were based on evidence from Michelle Knight that Mr Castro had impregnated her, then physically abused and starved her in order to induce five miscarriages while she was being held captive in his house in Cleveland.

"I fully intend to seek charges for each and every act of sexual violence, rape, each day of kidnapping, every felonious assault, all his attempted murders, and each act of aggravated murder he committed by terminating pregnancies that the offender perpetuated against the hostages," Mr McGinty told a news conference.

"My office will also engage in a formal process in which we evaluate to seek charges eligible for the death penalty.

"This child kidnapper operated a torture chamber and private prison in the heart of our city," he added.

Earlier in the day, Mr Castro appeared in court in Cleveland, handcuffed and dressed in blue overalls. He did not enter a plea.

He is charged with four counts of kidnapping, covering the three initial abduction victims and Jocelyn, Ms Berry's six-year-old daughter, who was apparently conceived and born in captivity.

The former school bus driver also faces three counts of rape, one against each woman.

'Sick son'
Bail was set at $8m (£5.1m), meaning he will remain in custody.

He has been placed on suicide watch and will be kept in isolation, his court-appointed lawyer Kathleen DeMetz told reporters.

According to CBS News, Mr Castro confessed to his crimes in a long, hand-written letter found in the house, which investigators believe may have been intended as a suicide note.

In the 2004-dated letter he said he had been raped as a child by his uncle and was also abused by his parents, a law enforcement source told the US network.

Mr Castro reportedly called himself a "sexual predator", but he also asked to donate all his money to his victims after his death.

Meanwhile, Mr Castro's mother asked for forgiveness from her son's alleged victims.

"I have a sick son who has committed something very grave. I'm suffering very much," Lillian Rodriguez told reporters on Thursday. "May those young ladies forgive me."

Ariel Castro's two brothers, Pedro and Onil, also appeared in court on unrelated charges. They had been arrested, but police found no evidence linking them to the crime.

Pedro Castro was fined $100 for public drinking, while two minor counts against Onil Castro were dropped.

On Thursday, Mr Castro's daughter, Arlene, who was one of the last people to see Gina DeJesus before she disappeared in 2004 aged 14, wept during a TV interview.

Describing herself as "disappointed, embarrassed, mainly devastated", she apologised to Ms DeJesus

The three women were all abducted after accepting rides from Mr Castro, according to a leaked police report.

They told officials they could only remember being outside twice during their time in captivity.

Cleveland City Councilman Brian Cummins said the women had told police they had only gone as far as a garage on the property, disguised in wigs and hats.

Mr Cummins, citing police information, said the victims had been kept apart inside the house until their captor felt he had enough control to allow them to mingle.

Ms Berry, whose disappearance in 2003 the day before her 17th birthday was widely publicised in the local media, returned to her sister's home on Wednesday.

A few hours later, Gina DeJesus, who went missing in 2004 at the age of 14, was also brought home.

Ms Knight, who was 20 when she disappeared in 2002, remains in hospital, in a good condition.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Freyja's red tears.... this case is still mind blowing to me.

**whembly**

http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-ariel-castro-may-have-violated.html#more
He argues that if these were in essence a 'slave marriage' there might even be a Constitutional Amendment violated by his conduct.

o.O

**cincydooley**

Wonder how hard the burden of proof will be for those forced miscarriages. Are doctors able to tell that? Or is is basically her word? Not that I doubt it...but the whole reasonable doubt thing could come into play.

**Frazzled**

Well we have three witnesses.

**hotsauceman1**

Can he even get murder charge from that?
Something like that(Forced miscarriage) happened around here, but the most the man got was an "Unlawful Abortion" charge because they couldnt prove that it was when the fetus was viable.
Still, that poor girl, I wonder how many times he did that to her, I wish her the best.
WTH can go through some mens minds I dont know.

**Monster Rain**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Can he even get murder charge from that?

Ask Scott Peterson.

**hotsauceman1**

I remember that case. But wasnt that when the baby was proveen to be viable(8 months).
I guess we will have to see, Different places=Different Laws and precedents.

**Shadowseer_Kim**

Yes he can be charged for murder in the state of Ohio for the forced miscarriages.

It varies by state about the definition of a person.

In Oregon, you are not considered a person until you take a breath after being born.

There have been cases here where a pregnant woman was killed, but only one charge of murder even though the baby died.

Also, a woman sold her baby for $10,000 before giving birth to it, and it was legal in a very grey area way because as Oregon says "not a person."

All depends on your state laws.

**hotsauceman1**

I guess, It will be interesting to see how this ends up.

**Alfndrate**

Bit of an update:
Onil and Pedro Castro are idiots

. They admitted last night in an interview that when they would visit their brother (at the house where these girls were being kept), they were only allowed into the kitchen, and he would always be playing loud music. Not once did these two question their brother....

**Frazzled**

I don't believe them.

**Gitzbitah**

Frazzled wrote:
I don't believe them.

Second.

**Alfndrate**

Frazzled wrote:
I don't believe them.

I do, simply because these guys don't seem smart enough to inquire about why they are only EVER allowed in the kitchen and why they only ever drink a little booze and listen to loud music. I believe the same thing was corroborated by Ariel Castro's daughter too.

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
I don't believe them.

As far as excuses go, its pretty weak

**Easy E**

Alfndrate wrote:
Bit of an update:
Onil and Pedro Castro are idiots . They admitted last night in an interview that when they would visit their brother (at the house where these girls were being kept), they were only allowed into the kitchen, and he would always be playing loud music. Not once did these two question their brother....

Sure, I might be like (This guy is up to smomething shady) but I would not expect it to be kidnapping and slavery! I would think, he's growing Pot in the basement, got illegal chickens, or possibly some sort of small time crime. Unless I had something real solid, I wouldn't do much about it either. He's my brother after all.

**Frazzled**

You don't keep chickens in the basement. At the Houston house the neighbor behind us keeps chickens that range around. occasionally one flies into our yard. Thats when Rusty the tank dog puts on the hockey mask and says "welcome to the Terrordome." Its not pretty after that.

**Easy E**

Frazzled wrote:
You don't keep chickens in the basement.

You do if you are doing it wrong!