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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

I have a better idea. We need to create a chocolate cupcake and cakeball culture, wherein others compete to make the best ones, and I eat them.

Spoiler:

You can have your cake, and eat it too!Just don't let your guard down while you eat!

Jebus she looks like my daughter twin

 master of ordinance wrote:
Im more concerned that the feminist extremist view out there seems to be that all men are rapists in the making, and that we don't know anything else.

It's fairly non-productive to engage with only the most extreme elements of the other side. There is a hell of a lot of feminism that is nothing like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hordini wrote:
And those kind of people are absolutely despicable (assuming that they're talking about taking advantage of drunk girls, and not just hooking up with drunk girls who also want to have sex), but the fact that such people exist doesn't indicate that we live in a rape culture.

There isn't just one culture in a society. In fact, a single person can be exposed to many different cultures. The issue is that a rape culture can develop within one group, which will then find ways to justify and even encourage abuse.

"Teaching" those people that rape is wrong isn't going to do anything either, because they obviously don't give a crap.

No. People aren't just inherently awful. People can be made aware of toxic cultures and either exit those cultures or make changes to those cultures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is.

Then we also live in a murder culture and a 'asteroid striking the Earth' culture.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

See, this is the problem with the junk argument put up by both sides after the pageant winner's comments. Self defence and examination and education of culture aren't mutually exclusive. Encouraging one doesn't require abandoning the other.

And describing it as 'educating men not to rape' is reductionist nonsense. Its about examining cultural beliefs that a group can hold, which can allow or even encourage sexism, abuse and rape. If you have any doubt about how this works, go read a men's rights forum, there you'll find all kinds of beliefs about women that work to justify objectification and rape.

Bullockist wrote:


It's because I'm short, now your taking your vendetta to a whole new level by picking on my physical shortcomings , stay classy Ensis!

You sound like a back to me (talking rugby here), and as I play hooker, I should respond that when you're ready to play among the real men in the pack

On the subject of false rape accusations, another thing about them that you might not know is most of the time when someone makes one they also make up an attacker rather than pointing to someone who actually exists. I'm not sure what the usual reason people tend to make them is, but it's not retribution.

I read a study about sexual assault as a result of this thread.

A key element of the traditional social script about heterosexuality is the construction and expression of normative masculinity. The US literature on sexual coercion demonstrates a significant relationship between scoring highly on "hypermasculinity" and "hostile masculinity" scales and self-reported sexual aggression among young men (Malamuth & Dean, 1997). The sexual offending research literature also identifies the implicit theories or "world views" of offenders that inform their behaviour. Most frequently identified in this population are beliefs that: women are dangerous, powerful and vindictive; women are sexual commodities; and the offenders are entitled to sex and/or control over women (Polaschek & Gannon, 2004).

The interpersonal and situational contexts the participants described demonstrated that sexual assault took place across a range of intimate, familiar and social relationships. Although 15 incidents were perpetrated by partners and husbands, approximately 20 were perpetrated by friends, colleagues and acquaintances. In Australia, the Personal Safety Survey shows that a significant proportion of women are assaulted by family friends, colleagues, acquaintances and neighbours and that "stranger rape" represents only a small minority of all sexual assaults
(ABS, 2006).

This could be a relevant one for the thread:

Of themselves, none of the sites identified in the women's accounts of the sexual assault constituted a "risky" setting. Indeed, the activities surrounding the sexual assault were consistent with the type of setting they were in and the relationship between victim and perpetrator (e.g., friends often catch up at dinner and have a drink and a chat). The clear implication of these women's experiences is that it is difficult or impossible to expect victims to be aware of and manage risk (even in settings such as licensed premises). According to these accounts, it would have required women to: remain untrusting of male friends, despite having lived with them or shared 20 years of friendship; not network with colleagues on work trips and related functions; not let family members into their homes; not talk to friends of friends at parties, and so on. "Risk" was assessed by these women within the apparent relationship they were in and with the understanding that they were an equal within it.

If you are interested in the topic (though this isn't constrained to colleges and is an Australian report, not a US one) then it could be a good thing to read.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Bullockist wrote:


It's because I'm short, now your taking your vendetta to a whole new level by picking on my physical shortcomings , stay classy Ensis!

You sound like a back to me (talking rugby here), and as I play hooker, I should respond that when you're ready to play among the real men in the pack

I used to play , started out as a winger, then moved to outside centre , then inside centre, then because I was an angry young man , breakaway
I was never big, I could just tackle well and was quite aggressive. My favourite thing was seeing someone huge running at me with a smile on their face and then seeing if I could dump them on their shoulders/neck - yep fair play was not my thing .

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really. That term would refer to a culture that's focused around rape. And...come on.

Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is. No matter how nice a person I am a random woman that hasn't met me before isn't going to know whether I'm likely to rape her or not.

Or shoot her, or punch her in the face, or take her wallet. Same to same for any random woman.

The argument is nonsensical. Everyone is a potential threat. Jeez have you seen my wife drive? She's a rolling killing machine of (suddenly red headed) cuteness.

The difference being that society won't immediately start questioning your actions if you're robbed, assaulted, or shot. Remember Steubenville? When's the last time that sort of spin happened to someone who got mugged?

Sure it will. You shouldn't have been in that part of town, you shouldn't have been out late at night, hey what do you expect when you go to prison...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I sure as hell treat random people out at night as potential robbers, and drunk people on town as potential "assaults-in-waiting", so what's the deal?

All these examples happen in a context. If a shady, bulky guy comes towards me at night in a small alley, I get focused and on the jump. If the same guy is coming at me on an open street at full daylight, it won't matter. Drunk people on town are dangerous because they are drunk. If anyone blindly and flat-out assumes that every man might be a potential rapist, then said person might very likely be in need of psychological counceling.

The permanent feeling of being threatened is a very strong sign for a psychological disorder.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The permanent feeling of being threatened is a very strong sign for a psychological disorder.

If some woman who has been raped by someone she really trusted and would never have expected to do so, I would not consider that she has a psychological disorder for mistrusting any guy she meet afterward. It seems just the normal result of a very traumatic experience. And apparently, statistic points to most rape being done by someone the victim knew and would really not have expected to rape.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The permanent feeling of being threatened is a very strong sign for a psychological disorder.

If some woman who has been raped by someone she really trusted and would never have expected to do so, I would not consider that she has a psychological disorder for mistrusting any guy she meet afterward. It seems just the normal result of a very traumatic experience. And apparently, statistic points to most rape being done by someone the victim knew and would really not have expected to rape.

Actually, that IS almost the very reaction/definition of a particular psychological disorder: PTSD.... and PTSD is quite the "logical" affliction for a person to have, if they've been raped (or through multiple IED attacks, ambushes, or attended a Justin Bieber concert they were forced into)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The permanent feeling of being threatened is a very strong sign for a psychological disorder.

If some woman who has been raped by someone she really trusted and would never have expected to do so, I would not consider that she has a psychological disorder for mistrusting any guy she meet afterward. It seems just the normal result of a very traumatic experience. And apparently, statistic points to most rape being done by someone the victim knew and would really not have expected to rape.

Actually, that IS almost the very reaction/definition of a particular psychological disorder: PTSD.... and PTSD is quite the "logical" affliction for a person to have, if they've been raped (or through multiple IED attacks, ambushes, or attended a Justin Bieber concert they were forced into)

+1.

Not to mention that you skipped context again.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The permanent feeling of being threatened is a very strong sign for a psychological disorder.

If some woman who has been raped by someone she really trusted and would never have expected to do so, I would not consider that she has a psychological disorder for mistrusting any guy she meet afterward. It seems just the normal result of a very traumatic experience. And apparently, statistic points to most rape being done by someone the victim knew and would really not have expected to rape.

Actually, that IS almost the very reaction/definition of a particular psychological disorder: PTSD.... and PTSD is quite the "logical" affliction for a person to have, if they've been raped (or through multiple IED attacks, ambushes, or attended a Justin Bieber concert they were forced into)

+1.

Not to mention that you skipped context again.

PTSD is quite a serious problem and that is what most people who have been raped suffer from.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not to mention that you skipped context again.

What do you mean I skipped context? I do not mean she will fear that you will rape her on the spot when she meets you, I mean she will not trust you enough to go in any situation where you might rape her.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not to mention that you skipped context again.

What do you mean I skipped context? I do not mean she will fear that you will rape her on the spot when she meets you, I mean she will not trust you enough to go in any situation where you might rape her.

And if she meets an actual GOOD GUY, whether he is outright told that she's been raped or not, will pick up on this, and if he thinks she's really worth it, he'll be patient with her, and won't pressure her into any sort of situation that would put her out of comfort.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not to mention that you skipped context again.

What do you mean I skipped context? I do not mean she will fear that you will rape her on the spot when she meets you, I mean she will not trust you enough to go in any situation where you might rape her.

And if she meets an actual GOOD GUY, whether he is outright told that she's been raped or not, will pick up on this, and if he thinks she's really worth it, he'll be patient with her, and won't pressure her into any sort of situation that would put her out of comfort.

Like a good human being should. They should help the person face their fears.

But yeah I am fine with Miss Nevada punch someone in the dick if they are just trying to get into her pants.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not to mention that you skipped context again.

What do you mean I skipped context? I do not mean she will fear that you will rape her on the spot when she meets you, I mean she will not trust you enough to go in any situation where you might rape her.

That she was raped before. Then there's a logical reason for the fear. Before, I was referring to the comment about it okay always being in a constant feeling of threat without any proper reasoning, just assuming anyone might anytime rape you.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
And if she meets an actual GOOD GUY, whether he is outright told that she's been raped or not, will pick up on this, and if he thinks she's really worth it, he'll be patient with her, and won't pressure her into any sort of situation that would put her out of comfort.

Yeah. So?

 Sigvatr wrote:
That she was raped before. Then there's a logical reason for the fear. Before, I was referring to the comment about it okay always being in a constant feeling of threat without any proper reasoning, just assuming anyone might anytime rape you.

What if someone very close to her was raped?
What if someone a little less close to her was raped?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

What if someone very close to her was raped?
What if someone a little less close to her was raped?

Context or not?

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not to mention that you skipped context again.

What do you mean I skipped context? I do not mean she will fear that you will rape her on the spot when she meets you, I mean she will not trust you enough to go in any situation where you might rape her.

And if she meets an actual GOOD GUY, whether he is outright told that she's been raped or not, will pick up on this, and if he thinks she's really worth it, he'll be patient with her, and won't pressure her into any sort of situation that would put her out of comfort.

Like a good human being should. They should help the person face their fears.

But yeah I am fine with Miss Nevada punch someone in the dick if they are just trying to get into her pants.

Well if its Taekwondo odds are that will be a snap kick or a knee actually.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

You actually want people to take a small measure of personal responsibility?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

What if someone very close to her was raped?
What if someone a little less close to her was raped?

Context or not?

Not.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

What if someone very close to her was raped?
What if someone a little less close to her was raped?

Context or not?

Not.

Well, let's drop it then. Not feeling like explaining basics to make a point the other side isn't interested in anyway.

So is everyone that carries a concealed weapon as crazy and unreasonable as feminists talking about rape culture?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I cannot give you any context because I am not talking about any real person I would know.

Noone was referring to you. We're talking empty cases here.

Being extremely cautious when running around alone after being raped is a strong context. There's a pretty legit reason for you behaving in such a way. It still is a case that needs psychological treatment - you've been through a traumatizing situation and having such an attitude isn't healthy either.

If you, however, simply assume that every man is a potential rapist, that's a whole different case. That's a deeply irritating behavior that rings all alarm bells for immediate psychologic attention.

 d-usa wrote:
So is everyone that carries a concealed weapon as crazy and unreasonable as feminists talking about rape culture?

Mmm...its good to see inflammatory posts added for no reason.

Remember as the ancient Budha once said: "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

 whembly wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just needed an excuse to post this.

fething finally.

Jeebus, guys. 4 pages in and this is the first picture of Miss Nevada.

I am really disappointed in you all. -5 Internet Points, all around.

...and whembly saves the day, and get's 5 bajillion Internet Points... right?

I grant you 2. 1 for posting it, and 1 for her being a hottie. Don't get greedy!

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So is everyone that carries a concealed weapon as crazy and unreasonable as feminists talking about rape culture?

Mmm...its good to see inflammatory posts added

How the hell is that post inflammatory.

for no reason.

It was added for a very good reason.

We have lots of people talking about how it is completely unreasonable to assume that every man could be a potential rapist and others who even go as far as to say that thinking anything like that is a sign of psychological imbalance.

If that is indeed the case, then anybody that carries concealed would be just as unreasonable and psychologically imbalanced because the reason we carry is that anybody is a potential attacker and we don't know who is actually going to attack or when it is actually going to happen.

Both groups (people who carry and women who don't want to be raped, and often that is the same group) operate on the same principle: Anybody could be a potential harm. Be aware, be prepared, don't put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation, and be ready to defend yourself if you have to. Don't assume that you are safe and let your guard down.

 d-usa wrote:
women who don't want to be raped

So there's women who want to be raped?

 Sigvatr wrote:
If you, however, simply assume that every man is a potential rapist, that's a whole different case. That's a deeply irritating behavior that rings all alarm bells for immediate psychologic attention.

No. No, because you have no real reason to believe otherwise, do you?
Sure, it is going to be irritating to you if you want to be with this woman and she does not want to because of this. But it is just being cautious.
And no, you do not need to be running alone to be raped. You are statistically less likely to be running alone when you get raped. So, really, what you propose is not in any way more reasonable.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But yeah I am fine with Miss Nevada punch someone in the dick if they are just trying to get into her pants.

It'd probably be far more aggressive then that As part of the black belt form for 1st dan (degree) there's a movement referred to as monkey steals peach, which is literally grabbing hold with a crushing fist, twisting, then ripping the guys balls off. Which would tend to deter somebody real fast.

She's 4th dan so there's quite a bit more they teach beyond that.