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 Frazzled wrote:
How is that despicable (from your quote)? If they're both drunk and neither passes out (hence incapable of giving consent) how is that despicable?

I edited my post so hopefully it's clearer. I mean it's despicable if the guy is taking advantage of someone who is passed out or obviously unable to consent (that is, he's committing rape). If they both want to get drunk and have sex then whatever.

 Hordini wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
How is that despicable (from your quote)? If they're both drunk and neither passes out (hence incapable of giving consent) how is that despicable?

I edited my post so hopefully it's clearer. I mean it's despicable if the guy is taking advantage of someone who is passed out or obviously unable to consent. If they both want to get drunk and have sex then whatever.

OK, we're on the same page and in agreement. I wasn't getting that before.

 Hordini wrote:

Spoiler:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:
or views getting someone drunk enough to have sex with you as acceptable.

But this assumes that the female has no choice in anything. Last I checked both men and women gravitate towards bars to meet people.

Yes, they gravitate towards bars to meet people. If one (or both, but then it's really messy) of them is drunk to the point at which they can no longer give informed consent, then having sex with them is rape, and viewing that as acceptable is what I mean when I refer to rape culture.

I don't know anyone who actually views that as acceptable. I know there are people who do that, but I have never heard anyone actually suggest that it was an okay thing to do.

I've had the misfortune of meeting several people who do that (except at parties, not at a bar), and then boast about it afterwards, saying stuff like "Yeah, man, everyone got totally fething wasted last night, and I got laid by this drunk I met there."

And those kind of people are absolutely despicable (assuming that they're talking about taking advantage of drunk girls, and not just hooking up with drunk girls who also want to have sex), but the fact that such people exist doesn't indicate that we live in a rape culture. "Teaching" those people that rape is wrong isn't going to do anything either, because they obviously don't give a crap.

I do believe we're actually on the same page here, I'm not sure how we've ended up arguing. I've advocated for self defence to prevent the actual random assault fraction of rapes happening (if you don't believe that it happens, just take a look at India). On the other hand, that's not going to do gak about this type of rape, where one party is incapable of giving consent, for obvious reasons. Then again, there really isn't much you can do to stop this happening. :/

Also, if you can think of an alternative to rape culture to refer to this, I'll gladly start using that.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really.

Yeah, man, whatever floats your boat.

 -Shrike- wrote:
Well, usually the extremist feminists I've seen have said what I wrote.

Where can I find them. I mean, their writings.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Where can I find them. I mean, their writings.

Internet comments in certain articles and most likely the most well-known "feminist" in mass media.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really. That term would refer to a culture that's focused around rape. And...come on.

Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is. No matter how nice a person I am a random woman that hasn't met me before isn't going to know whether I'm likely to rape her or not.

Just to use the self-defense example again, if it's only logical that women arm themselves and train to avoid putting themselves in bad situations, why is it not reasonable to treat every man as a potential rapist? I sure as hell treat random people out at night as potential robbers, and drunk people on town as potential "assaults-in-waiting", so what's the deal?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really. That term would refer to a culture that's focused around rape. And...come on.

Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is. No matter how nice a person I am a random woman that hasn't met me before isn't going to know whether I'm likely to rape her or not.

Or shoot her, or punch her in the face, or take her wallet. Same to same for any random woman.

The argument is nonsensical. Everyone is a potential threat. Jeez have you seen my wife drive? She's a rolling killing machine of (suddenly red headed) cuteness.

EDIT: Frazzled actually views the world as above, that everything is a potential threat to the family. No sane person wants to be like Frazzled - seriously.

Obviously by being born as a man we do nothing but think like this:

How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

I have a better idea. We need to create a chocolate cupcake and cakeball culture, wherein others compete to make the best ones, and I eat them.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

I like this idea.

On the other hand, it's far too sensible to get anywhere.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
How about we create a self defense culture? One centered on self-awareness and protection rather than accusing all men of being rapists by default (and that we need to educate them to not rape).

I have a better idea. We need to create a chocolate cupcake and cakeball culture, wherein others compete to make the best ones, and I eat them.

You can have your cake, and eat it too!Just don't let your guard down while you eat!

 whembly wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Wouldn't be that hard Whembly. I could do it in a matter of minutes with MS Paint.

It's been years since I've attempted to photoshop or look for any forensic evidence... so, I'm out of my league.

I figured the picture of the page on a monitor seemed compelling.

*shrug*

Neverthanless... good find and I stand corrected. I'm still not a fan of the Brady Campaign.

I don't believe that it is possible to alter images taken off a monitor, so I stand with you.

I also appreciate you coming around, why did you edit it out?

I fething lol'd.

Hard.

HAH!

 Frazzled wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really. That term would refer to a culture that's focused around rape. And...come on.

Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is. No matter how nice a person I am a random woman that hasn't met me before isn't going to know whether I'm likely to rape her or not.

Or shoot her, or punch her in the face, or take her wallet. Same to same for any random woman.

The argument is nonsensical. Everyone is a potential threat. Jeez have you seen my wife drive? She's a rolling killing machine of (suddenly red headed) cuteness.

The difference being that society won't immediately start questioning your actions if you're robbed, assaulted, or shot. Remember Steubenville? When's the last time that sort of spin happened to someone who got mugged?

 Ouze wrote:

Spoiler:

Exalt

 Ouze wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Wouldn't be that hard Whembly. I could do it in a matter of minutes with MS Paint.

It's been years since I've attempted to photoshop or look for any forensic evidence... so, I'm out of my league.

I figured the picture of the page on a monitor seemed compelling.

*shrug*

Neverthanless... good find and I stand corrected. I'm still not a fan of the Brady Campaign.

I don't believe that it is possible to alter images taken off a monitor, so I stand with you.

I also appreciate you coming around, why did you edit it out?

Spoiler:

*slow handclap* Nicely done.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Anyone using the term "rape culture" to make a point should be considered not worth your time to begin with. Like, really. That term would refer to a culture that's focused around rape. And...come on.

Nope. It'd refer to a culture where the threat of rape is always present, which it is. No matter how nice a person I am a random woman that hasn't met me before isn't going to know whether I'm likely to rape her or not.

Or shoot her, or punch her in the face, or take her wallet. Same to same for any random woman.

The argument is nonsensical. Everyone is a potential threat. Jeez have you seen my wife drive? She's a rolling killing machine of (suddenly red headed) cuteness.

The difference being that society won't immediately start questioning your actions if you're robbed, assaulted, or shot. Remember Steubenville? When's the last time that sort of spin happened to someone who got mugged?

Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:


Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

I used to get all uppity about fake rape claims because I met a guy that had one pulled on him, then I did a bit of reading and found they aren't that prevalent at all , they just grab headlines.

In the military, only about 3% of claims are false. I don't know how many in the civilian sector are, but I'd guess the numbers are probably similar.

Bullockist wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:


Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

I used to get all uppity about fake rape claims because I met a guy that had one pulled on him, then I did a bit of reading and found they aren't that prevalent at all , they just grab headlines.

I could see that being the case.

 Ouze wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Wouldn't be that hard Whembly. I could do it in a matter of minutes with MS Paint.

It's been years since I've attempted to photoshop or look for any forensic evidence... so, I'm out of my league.

I figured the picture of the page on a monitor seemed compelling.

*shrug*

Neverthanless... good find and I stand corrected. I'm still not a fan of the Brady Campaign.

I don't believe that it is possible to alter images taken off a monitor, so I stand with you.

I also appreciate you coming around, why did you edit it out?

Spoiler:

Exalted!

Bullockist wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:


Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

I used to get all uppity about fake rape claims because I met a guy that had one pulled on him, then I did a bit of reading and found they aren't that prevalent at all , they just grab headlines.

This (holy gak, me and Bullockist agreeing?!). The "loads of false rape claims, everywhere!" angle doesn't make much sense anyway, as illustrated by Steubenville and the multitude of cases like it society generally isn't very kind to people who report rapes. Why would anyone willingly put themselves in the line of fire, so to speak, when you're likely to be ostracized and attacked by a multitude of people you haven't even met?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Internet comments in certain articles and most likely the most well-known "feminist" in mass media.

Can I get a name or a link?
I mean, just so I can see if they are really like you describe, or if I perceive them quite differently.

I'm starting to find that people I never even realised disagreed with me apparently have a vendetta against me. First Ensis and now the walrus from the north who is almighty. It's enough to make me go and hide in my WW3 survival bunker.

Perhaps being able to agree with whembley and d-usa isn't a good thing. Obviously I mean on separate occasions.

Bullockist wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:


Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

I used to get all uppity about fake rape claims because I met a guy that had one pulled on him, then I did a bit of reading and found they aren't that prevalent at all , they just grab headlines.

Yeah, from the media coverage it seems like it's really prevalent; I was truly surprised when I found out how rare a false rape accusation actually is.

Bullockist wrote:
I'm starting to find that people I never even realised disagreed with me apparently have a vendetta against me. First Ensis and now the walrus from the north who is almighty. It's enough to make me go and hide in my WW3 survival bunker.

Lol, can't say for certain about the walrus (coo coo cachoo??), but I have no vendetta. I'm sure that somewhere down the line we either have agreed, or will agree on some issue Obviously we both come from different places in life (not just geographically), so we're not gonna see eye to eye on some stuff.

 Ouze wrote:

Bullockist wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:


Are false robbery accusations as prevalent as false rape accusations?

I used to get all uppity about fake rape claims because I met a guy that had one pulled on him, then I did a bit of reading and found they aren't that prevalent at all , they just grab headlines.

Yeah, from the media coverage it seems like it's really prevalent; I was truly surprised when I found out how rare a false rape accusation actually is.

It's kind of like mass shootings in that regard. It's almost as if the media's sensationalist reporting leads people to think that things that actually happen rarely or are even happening less often are happening more and more.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Bullockist wrote:
I'm starting to find that people I never even realised disagreed with me apparently have a vendetta against me. First Ensis and now the walrus from the north who is almighty. It's enough to make me go and hide in my WW3 survival bunker.

Lol, can't say for certain about the walrus (coo coo cachoo??), but I have no vendetta. I'm sure that somewhere down the line we either have agreed, or will agree on some issue Obviously we both come from different places in life (not just geographically), so we're not gonna see eye to eye on some stuff.

It's because I'm short, now your taking your vendetta to a whole new level by picking on my physical shortcomings , stay classy Ensis!