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Hmm just realized.

12" jump pack move.
12" Psychic wing jump (IIRC)

gets a unit of Assault marines with a bunch of melta guns + double infernus pistols.
Sounds outright scary for tanks

Oh and 12" more inchs for the telekensis one too for more fun much safer than GOI without dante.

1. Drop down on a safe distance.
2. do the psychic fly.
3. kill with Melta.
4. ????
5. profit.

So dante is awesome, mephy is great and an IC now, everything got cheaper, we got our psychic powers back and better than ever, we got old furious charge back, our relics are pretty good, the warlord traits are sweet, and people are STILL complaining.

Way to go internet. Way to go.

 soomemafia wrote:
1. Drop down on a safe distance.
2. do the psychic fly.
3. kill with Melta.
4. ????
5. profit.

Well That would be T2.

Also then again Drop pods..... which might be awesome with BA assault marines.

(it was two meltas and two melta pistols right?). what would the price be compared to sternguard or command squad?

Now that most of the information about the codex is in my feeling are a little less heated and have mainly turned to apathy, I've gone from really excited to not really caring which I'm pretty sad about.

I can see that there will be many reasonably competitive options in the codex with alot of units being better than before just due to price drops but that was the bare minimum that we could have expected from a new codex and shouldn't be something to celebrate.

The codex just doesn't seem to have a distinct playstyle of its own anymore, I have 9 different 40K armies with bloodangels being my first and favourite but they have just had most of their gameplay flavour dialed down so we're left with a codex very similar to the vanilla book but with far less varied options and playstyles.

I write the following with the full understanding that I could (perhaps should) play unbound but I and many others feel that the game really falls apart under that system and prefer to use detachments, also many issues might be fixed with the forthcoming £50 campaign book which I again feel is not an acceptable solution.

With assault marines going to fast attack we're forced to play with tactical marines or scouts which impose a certain style of play. It might be perfectly fluffy and usable but it forces the army in a certain direction that many do not what to go in.

Other than assault marines our fast attack section looks pretty uninteresting, if I wanted bikes I'll use white scars or ravenwing the rest is just transports and pretty poor landspeeders. To me a BA force shopuld be all about the fast attack and this is the section that disappoints me the most. We were crying out for a flyer here, hopefully a cool new model or the stormtalon which would have been a good fit but at the very least put the stormraven here. Instead we have the least interesting and varied FA section of all the marines book which just seems very poorly thought out.

With the change of baal preds to heavy support and their lose of scout they have just become a weapon swap predator and no longer allow for a multiple heavy tank build, again just less play options.

Priests used to be able to be fielded in numbers up to 9 with each individual model affecting multiple units. Now we can use our entire HQ section to give FNP to 2 units. This hugely diminishes the survivability of all our infantry units. The preist are still good but most people seem to be salivating about taking them as allies to bolster their boring deathstar builds.

Earlier in the thread someone posted that they prefer the new blood claws to the old ones, how? Whilst some may think the old ones may have been a little powerful they were at least a different option, the new one cost 10pts to make you have a slightly greater chance of causing a wound. They don't change the roll of the dreadnaught using them in the slightest and thus again are removing options and interest. This is not a good thing, tacking on a nearly useless special rule to a weapon is very lazy game design. If we were to swap shred for rampage we would have had a useful upgrade that would be worth buying and changes the roll of the unit whilst keeping the flavor of the weapon but that was to big a leap.

Dante the saviour! He's awesome no denying it, but having a character (or any model - hello waveserpent) be an auto include in an army is again just reducing options.

I understand many people saying the BA are a codex chapter thus should be very similar to a standard codex chapter, fine. If that's how they are changing the codex then why not include things like the stormtalon and landspeeder storm? Both units fill holes in the codex and fit the perceived bloodangels playstyle.

I will no doubt play many games with the new codex and as always my concerns will likely fade (as they always do) but I really feel this is a poorly implemented codex re-design that whilst certainly playable is alot less diverse and interesting than it was or could/should have been.

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
This codex seems, to a first approximation, to be medicore at best. The assault marines to FA thing isn't as important as an overall meh feeling to the whole thing. If tactical marines weren't one of the worst things in the game, this change would be fine with me, actually.

Another codex to be mowed down by the elite codices. I don't hate it, but I really don't like it either. It's better than the old 5th codex, but that's a really, really low bar.

Really? Because the reaction from most people who already have it in hand is that its pretty awesome. Assault marines no longer being troops is LITERALLY the only bad thing about it.

Here are some other bad things for you then:

Sanguinor is still garbage.
Tycho is a joke in two forms.
Seth is still useless.
Baal Predator nerfed.
DC Dread nerfed.
Furioso nerfed.
Reclusiarch gone (which becomes a serious issue if you want to use relic vehicles from FW).
No new units from the SM book. Not even Storms for the Scouts.
Dante nerfed (better in some areas, sure, but overall a nerf, IMO).
Stormraven nerfed (if only slightly).
Razorbacks, Sternguard combis, Attack bikes more expensive.
Assault Marines are not only FA, but can only take Rhinos and Drop Pods.
Terminators (both kinds) are still garbage, Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are still decidedly unimpressive, no ICs left in the Elites section leading to a clogged HQ section.

It does have some bright spots, like Mephiston, Finkin' Cap, the psychic powers, and, I guess, heavy flamers in Tac Squads (I feel like I'm really reaching here...).

Overall, I don't really see the point of the book. It's like SM but with some other units that just aren't very impressive, and a ton of actually good units and options missing.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

I feel that Dante just continues the tradition of codex: trap unit. Dante is extremely expensive, and despite all the buffs, I'm not sure he is cost effective.

Shooting tanks with melta was never a problem for the old codex. Surviving fire from Necron/GK/IG/Eldar/Tau was. I don't see how that has changed at all, really.

Martel732 wrote:
I feel that Dante just continues the tradition of codex: trap unit. Dante is extremely expensive, and despite all the buffs, I'm not sure he is cost effective.

Shooting tanks with melta was never a problem for the old codex. Surviving fire from Necron/GK/IG/Eldar/Tau was. I don't see how that has changed at all, really.

It sounds a whole lot more like a necron GK IG Eldar TAU problem then a C:BA issue considering its the same issue vanilla has in any case.

There is nothing short of a my unit is unkillalbe USR that will fix those codexes...... and gotta remember that this is a game of war. you are expected to have to lose some models in on coming fire.

I'm not asking for no casualties. I'm asking for something less than 80%.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not asking for no casualties. I'm asking for something less than 80%.

Then your doing something wrong
or playing a table with no cover
or are the luckiest man in the world in opposite land.

Cover doesn't help. I die to AP 6 wound spam. Part of the cost of a marine is not needing cover to be effective. High wound output armies completely negate that advantage by brute forcing through the 3+ save.

I've always fielded Dante and Sanguinary Guard (5th ed till now that is) so those items are major scores for me in the new book.

I expect that no matter what happens people will complain; because history has proven that true with every GW release; and that has been my experience since RT. My first army was Flesh Eaters (Rogue Trader book), then Blood Angels with the first codex/list btw.

Technically some units saw "nerfs" that more or less just put them in line with the times (other codex)... the only real CONS I've seen are the over-clogging of Elite and HQ; but in 7th edition this isn't so much an issue.

Overwhelmingly I'd say the changes look positive however, and I'm super excited to get started.

Martel732 wrote:
Cover doesn't help. I die to AP 6 wound spam.

Then yeah you must be the most unlucky man in the world as you only have a 2/6 chance of dieing from that.

Less if you have FNP going.

(bleh for power armor marines) im herping atm.

 Thud wrote:
.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

BA Specific units (DC, SangGuard) got much better/cheaper
Tacticals are now very good at close quarters battle, with HF and FC all round
Points drops on pretty much everything
Dante is a legitimate badass now
Can't see a bad unit in the book
New traits, relics and detachment are all pretty awesome

Admittedly, I'm no fan of the priest slot change (others don't bother me) and some SCs being majorly weakened (Tycho) or blanderised (Corbulo, Astorath) but o other than that, I am really liking this book at the moment.

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not asking for no casualties. I'm asking for something less than 80%.

Then your doing something wrong
or playing a table with no cover
or are the luckiest man in the world in opposite land.

Or he's playing against Eldar.

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Cover doesn't help. I die to AP 6 wound spam.

Then yeah you must be the most unlucky man in the world as you only have a 2/6 chance of dieing from that.

Less if you have FNP going.

2/6 * 70 wounds = 20+ dead marines a turn. It's not luck.It's math.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zewrath wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not asking for no casualties. I'm asking for something less than 80%.

Then your doing something wrong
or playing a table with no cover
or are the luckiest man in the world in opposite land.

Or he's playing against Eldar.

Last 5 games in a row. Then I quit for several months. Played 3 more Eldar in a row when I came back.

 Zewrath wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not asking for no casualties. I'm asking for something less than 80%.

Then your doing something wrong
or playing a table with no cover
or are the luckiest man in the world in opposite land.

Or he's playing against Eldar.

Refer to option 3 then

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I feel that Dante just continues the tradition of codex: trap unit. Dante is extremely expensive, and despite all the buffs, I'm not sure he is cost effective.

Shooting tanks with melta was never a problem for the old codex. Surviving fire from Necron/GK/IG/Eldar/Tau was. I don't see how that has changed at all, really.

It sounds a whole lot more like a necron GK IG Eldar TAU problem then a C:BA issue considering its the same issue vanilla has in any case.

There is nothing short of a my unit is unkillalbe USR that will fix those codexes...... and gotta remember that this is a game of war. you are expected to have to lose some models in on coming fire.

I kind of understand BA players not liking the new codex. All BA lists were made around assault marines in razorbacks and priests handing out fnP .
Now those no longer exist outside of unbound. It kind of sucks when someone with a 1500army sees that he now has to buy a whole new army. Because if the new one isn't better then the best army right now, one may as well buy the best one. Same money spend and better return.

Martel732 wrote:




2/6 * 70 wounds = 20+ dead marines a turn. It's not luck.It's math.

against 1 unit

where is the rest of your army?

 Paradigm wrote:

 Thud wrote:
.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

BA Specific units (DC, SangGuard) got much better/cheaper
Tacticals are now very good at close quarters battle, with HF and FC all round
Points drops on pretty much everything
Dante is a legitimate badass now
Can't see a bad unit in the book
New traits, relics and detachment are all pretty awesome

Admittedly, I'm no fan of the priest slot change (others don't bother me) and some SCs being majorly weakened (Tycho) or blanderised (Corbulo, Astorath) but o other than that, I am really liking this book at the moment.

I'm not saying its bad at all. I'm saying there's not enough good. There are no units or schemes to hang our hat on in this book. DC are just victims like they are now. Cheaper victims, but still victims.



Less if you have FNP going.

Makumba wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I feel that Dante just continues the tradition of codex: trap unit. Dante is extremely expensive, and despite all the buffs, I'm not sure he is cost effective.

Shooting tanks with melta was never a problem for the old codex. Surviving fire from Necron/GK/IG/Eldar/Tau was. I don't see how that has changed at all, really.

It sounds a whole lot more like a necron GK IG Eldar TAU problem then a C:BA issue considering its the same issue vanilla has in any case.

There is nothing short of a my unit is unkillalbe USR that will fix those codexes...... and gotta remember that this is a game of war. you are expected to have to lose some models in on coming fire.

I kind of understand BA players not liking the new codex. All BA lists were made around assault marines in razorbacks and priests handing out fnP .
Now those no longer exist outside of unbound. It kind of sucks when someone with a 1500army sees that he now has to buy a whole new army. Because if the new one isn't better then the best army right now, one may as well buy the best one. Same money spend and better return.

Woa dude ...maybe all of "Goatboy's BOLS spammer lists" were made of assault marines in razorbacks, or at the kiddie table of some uber-stomp tournaments, but that is certainly not "the build" that defines Blood Angels. If you ran a Mephiston cheese spammer list, I'm kinda glad you'll be disappointed with this book, but overall I think "BA players" ARE liking the book - but the fact remains, none of us are actually using it yet.

Martel732 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Thud wrote:
.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

BA Specific units (DC, SangGuard) got much better/cheaper
Tacticals are now very good at close quarters battle, with HF and FC all round
Points drops on pretty much everything
Dante is a legitimate badass now
Can't see a bad unit in the book
New traits, relics and detachment are all pretty awesome

Admittedly, I'm no fan of the priest slot change (others don't bother me) and some SCs being majorly weakened (Tycho) or blanderised (Corbulo, Astorath) but o other than that, I am really liking this book at the moment.

I'm not saying its bad at all. I'm saying there's not enough good. There are no units or schemes to hang our hat on in this book. DC are just victims like they are now. Cheaper victims, but still victims.

]

Genuine question: do you think that is the fault of this codex, or of lingering imbalance from the anomalous Eldar book? You say your last games have all been against Eldar, so I'm wondering if that's tinting your opinion. Anyone with the ability to think can recognise that Eldar are easily a cut above the rest of the books in terms of sheer power, but I think the new BA book would shape up well against any other codex.

To be frank, I'd rather have a book that can fight on a level field with all bar one book than another one on level of Eldar.

Martel732 wrote:


Last 5 games in a row. Then I quit for several months. Played 3 more Eldar in a row when I came back.

Yeah, I thought I recognized that casualty rate from every time my Red Scorpions gets a go against Eldar. Perhaps that's the reason I've been playing IG so much lately. Our armor gaks on the Wave Kelly Shield.

 Paradigm wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Thud wrote:
.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

BA Specific units (DC, SangGuard) got much better/cheaper
Tacticals are now very good at close quarters battle, with HF and FC all round
Points drops on pretty much everything
Dante is a legitimate badass now
Can't see a bad unit in the book
New traits, relics and detachment are all pretty awesome

Admittedly, I'm no fan of the priest slot change (others don't bother me) and some SCs being majorly weakened (Tycho) or blanderised (Corbulo, Astorath) but o other than that, I am really liking this book at the moment.

I'm not saying its bad at all. I'm saying there's not enough good. There are no units or schemes to hang our hat on in this book. DC are just victims like they are now. Cheaper victims, but still victims.

]

Genuine question: do you think that is the fault of this codex, or of lingering imbalance from the anomalous Eldar book? You say your last games have all been against Eldar, so I'm wondering if that's tinting your opinion. Anyone with the ability to think can recognise that Eldar are easily a cut above the rest of the books in terms of sheer power, but I think the new BA book would shape up well against any other codex.

To be frank, I'd rather have a book that can fight on a level field with all bar one book than another one on level of Eldar.

Thank you for this statement.

Right now we are actually the best at what we do:, which is fight. Wolves cant out fight us. Nids can't. DE or eldar can't. Daemons cant (except princes and greater daemons). Marines can't.

I for one am excited to play with this new book. We have been in the dark for so long that actually having a decently strong book will be really nice.

 Thud wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
This codex seems, to a first approximation, to be medicore at best. The assault marines to FA thing isn't as important as an overall meh feeling to the whole thing. If tactical marines weren't one of the worst things in the game, this change would be fine with me, actually.

Another codex to be mowed down by the elite codices. I don't hate it, but I really don't like it either. It's better than the old 5th codex, but that's a really, really low bar.

Really? Because the reaction from most people who already have it in hand is that its pretty awesome. Assault marines no longer being troops is LITERALLY the only bad thing about it.

Here are some other bad things for you then:

Sanguinor is still garbage.
Tycho is a joke in two forms.
Seth is still useless.
Baal Predator nerfed.
DC Dread nerfed.
Furioso nerfed.
Reclusiarch gone (which becomes a serious issue if you want to use relic vehicles from FW).
No new units from the SM book. Not even Storms for the Scouts.
Dante nerfed (better in some areas, sure, but overall a nerf, IMO).
Stormraven nerfed (if only slightly).
Razorbacks, Sternguard combis, Attack bikes more expensive.
Assault Marines are not only FA, but can only take Rhinos and Drop Pods.
Terminators (both kinds) are still garbage, Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are still decidedly unimpressive, no ICs left in the Elites section leading to a clogged HQ section.

It does have some bright spots, like Mephiston, Finkin' Cap, the psychic powers, and, I guess, heavy flamers in Tac Squads (I feel like I'm really reaching here...).

Overall, I don't really see the point of the book. It's like SM but with some other units that just aren't very impressive, and a ton of actually good units and options missing.

So, I'll flip the question around. What's good about it? What makes you excited about this book? I've got about 8k points, so I'd love to have my mind changed.

Forgot the 2 Sang Priest cap(if you want one as your hod damned warlord). I totally agree with you though. Very, very little good with heaps of negative.

* PS: For thosr of you saying "go unbound brah", you know exactly how that silly bs would fly at tournaments or even an LGS. It wouldn't. If the Dex forces the player to go unbound to play a very simple, very reasonable, fluffy/themed list, its a gakky codex. Plain and simple.

This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent so maybe this is no longer best place for this, but what the heck.

I had the codex in my hands for a little bit this evening and I noticed something that I haven't seen mentioned here or in the other threads. The CAD in the codex has a compulsory elite slot. People seem to know that BA get 4 elites to play with, but I don't think everyone was aware that one of them is mandatory. It's a minor point given how crowded the elite section is, but maybe there's someone out there wanting to run something without elites.

The other thing I noticed was no mention of the Lamenters is the section for the successors. The new chapter, the Carmine Blades, seems to have taken their spot. The Carmine Blades were thought to be Ultramarine successors until one day Astorath showed up because he was drawn to their lost marines. I think that's the tidiest retcon I've seen yet.

It was mentioned in the rumors page once some one got the book.

If you dont want the elite slot just play as a regular cad and get obsec instead.

Really no lamenters? thats a bloody shame

There might be something in the fluff text about them (maybe killing them off), but I didn't have time to read the whole thing. I just noticed that whereas the other chapters each got a nice page and a blurb, there wasn't one for the Lamenters.

While I still don't like that Death Company are Elites not Troops, I will make do. I will still run Cassor the Damned for one of my Troops choices. As of right now I am going to have the following for my BA army until I get more.

Chaplain with Jump Pack
Sanguinary Priest
5X Sanguinary Guard (3x Sword Glaives, 2x Axe Glaives)
10x Death Company (2x PF, 1x TH, 2x Inferno Pistol)
Tactical Squad (2x Hand Flamer, Flamer, HF) in a Rhino
Cassor the Damned in a Drop Pod
TriLas Predator
Baal Pred
Dante

 WisdomLS wrote:
With assault marines going to fast attack we're forced to play with tactical marines...

"Fortunately" GW just brought out a brand new tactical marines box for BA (only £26), coincidence?