Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like Thud!

I legitimately can't understand what the GW design team's viewpoint was in nerfing so many units in such a sub-par book. They've seen a full 2 years of BA performing terribly in competitive environments. And anyone who spends 10 minutes with the book will be able to identify that it is Vanilla Marines playing with a handicap.

AlexRae wrote:
I like Thud!

I hear he's a real bastard.

You're the guy from Allies of Convenience, aren't you?

 Thud wrote:

AlexRae wrote:
I like Thud!

I hear he's a real bastard.

You're the guy from Allies of Convenience, aren't you?

Yup

----

Anyone noticed that there is a Relic called Gallian's Staff but there are no points for it in the Wargear list?

So my guess is that they want to intentionally make the book worse than the core Marines book, so that when it's joined in with them in their next book, there won't be as much complaining.

That's my theory, anyway. And it sort of implies that they actually listen to complaints instead of flat out ignoring them, so it's probably not correct.

AlexRae wrote:

I legitimately can't understand what the GW design team's viewpoint was in nerfing so many units in such a sub-par book. They've seen a full 2 years of BA performing terribly in competitive environments. And anyone who spends 10 minutes with the book will be able to identify that it is Vanilla Marines playing with a handicap.

I'm happy with this. As a Dark Angels player, I want all the other Codeci pulled down to my level of suckitude.

AlexRae wrote:
I like Thud!

I legitimately can't understand what the GW design team's viewpoint was in nerfing so many units in such a sub-par book. They've seen a full 2 years of BA performing terribly in competitive environments. And anyone who spends 10 minutes with the book will be able to identify that it is Vanilla Marines playing with a handicap.

Well you should understand that GW does not give two grots about competitive players or fair play. or playing by there own rules.

All they want YOU as a consumer to do is buy there crap.

thats it.

Writing poor rules is not conducive to selling models. The new Librarian is pretty. I will buy one.

Scouts in Land Speeder Storms are excellent in game, I would buy 3.

I dont know if they attempted a switcheroo... "They already own loads of Razorbacks and Assault Marines! Stop them from being able to spam out Razorbacks and Assault Marines so they buy new models!" Quite possibly. But thats fething terrible business practise and leads me to magnetize more and more of my power armoured fellows to futureproof them.

Repost from the Tactics thread.

As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.

1. Fast Vehicles - Seriously, being starting that Baal Pred, Pred, or Vindicator out at the edge of your deployment zone and likely being able to get in range with all of your weapons is pretty awesome. 2 Melta Bombs for something like that is a steal.
2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...
3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.
4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him.
5. Sanguinary Guard - Ten man squads of cheaper, faster Terminators? Yes please!
6. Lemartes - Twenty points off (at the cost of him taking up an extra slot). He did get nerfed some. Still, I love the murderous little bastard.
7. Tactical Squads - FLAMERS! While it might not be the most effective thing, a Cowboy Sergeant, Flamer, and Heavy Flamer squad is going to be pretty cool to run. Pop a few bolt pistol shots and Charge away. Would've liked for them to be able to take a Chainsword though for a couple points. Would've stopped some of the complaints Re: Assault Squads. Maybe GW will pull their heads out their rears and FAQ that.

My only complaints are the fact that Assault Squads can't take Razorback at a 35 pt discount. I would also have like to seen the ability to trade bolters for chainswords on Tactical Squads too. Also, way too much competition for the HS slot. If they left the Baal Pred in FA, I would have bought THREE of them. Instead, I probably will only get two Predators. So they lost out on some purchases there. If they did that, I could have bought two TriLC Preds too. Nope. Lost business there, GeeDubs. I don't even know what I am going to run much for FA. Maybe some Land Speeders or Bike Squads. Actually, a Scout Bike Squad to Infiltrate with a Locator Beacon would be kinda fun. Gonna have a Prelim list based on the stuff I have later.

EDIT: Oh, and no LSS for Scouts hurts. Would've liked to buy another one of those. It was a fun model to build.

I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

Hard to say, I don't have the 5th ed codex. One thing that hurts it relative to the 5th ed codex is the sheer number of choices in some of the slots. Elites and Heavy Support are pretty full. The FoC reshuffling to resemble the C:SM codex harmed them pretty bad.

The 5th edition fared very poorly in game, but was loads of fun to play non-competitively and offered options for several different themed armies.

This dex will likely fare better in game (albeit probably not much) and is incredibly bland. At the same time much of our bells and whistles got clipped and what we got to keep either got nerfed unnecessarily (poor, poor Baal) or shoehorned into ludicrously crowded elite and HQ slots.

My verdict: Much worse.

We have 4 elite slots, repeat 4 what are you wanting to take where you can't fit it in in 4 elite slots?

You can literally take 1 of every elite choice (if the rumours are true)

It's a shame about the Baals they really don't deserve to be in Heavy but it's still a good tank with a points decrease so I'm happy.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
We have 4 elite slots, repeat 4 what are you wanting to take where you can't fit it in in 4 elite slots?

You can literally take 1 of every elite choice (if the rumours are true)

Uh....no? Sternguard, ALL dreadnoughts except the psyker ones, DC, sanguinary guard, command squads, not sure if vanguard vets are there, but if they were trying to match codex SM, then they are, tactical termies, assault termies... Heaven help you if you want to take multiples of one unit with different loadouts, like say a melee dread and a frag cannon dread.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
We have 4 elite slots, repeat 4 what are you wanting to take where you can't fit it in in 4 elite slots?

You can literally take 1 of every elite choice (if the rumours are true)

Uh....no? Sternguard, ALL dreadnoughts except the psyker ones, DC, sanguinary guard, command squads, not sure if vanguard vets are there, but if they were trying to match codex SM, then they are, tactical termies, assault termies... Heaven help you if you want to take multiples of one unit with different loadouts, like say a melee dread and a frag cannon dread.

Using 2 CAD you can get seven slots. In there you can field the majority of the options there. FYI, yes, Vanguard Veterans are Elites.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
We have 4 elite slots, repeat 4 what are you wanting to take where you can't fit it in in 4 elite slots?

You can literally take 1 of every elite choice (if the rumours are true)

Uh....no? Sternguard, ALL dreadnoughts except the psyker ones, DC, sanguinary guard, command squads, not sure if vanguard vets are there, but if they were trying to match codex SM, then they are, tactical termies, assault termies... Heaven help you if you want to take multiples of one unit with different loadouts, like say a melee dread and a frag cannon dread.

I'm thinking of the BA specific ones my bad but why you want to take Assault Terminators then Sanguinary Guard? Vanguard Vets will be FA but they are extortionate and in my personal experience I haven't seen many fielded.

I'm counting 7 elite choices now? and 4 slots that doesn't seem to bad. I would be quite happy to field 2 dreads, Death Company and Sanguinary guard.

I'm curious. Are there any other codexes that force multiple CADs on you for you to fit your desired units into their slots? Outside of spam that is.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
I'm curious. Are there any other codexes that force multiple CADs on you for you to fit your desired units into their slots? Outside of spam that is.

I've played around with a good number of armies, and this is the most piled-high-backed-up-call-a-plumber-now-clogged slot I remember seeing like...ever.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
I'm curious. Are there any other codexes that force multiple CADs on you for you to fit your desired units into their slots? Outside of spam that is.

Force? No. But Codex Space Marines has eight Elite choices and three slots. Codex Blood Angels has eleven Elite choices(one of which is a character) and four slots. So Codex BA has more choices, but also more slots.

Oh dear, Codex Space Marines it gak because you can't field all the Elite choices. Give me a break .

The salt in this thread is real. I don't mean to come off as rude. But this has been the trend for a while. Most codecies coming out now have not been really either better nor worse than their predecessors. You get buffs here, nerfs there. So it's more like a wash, really.

Perhaps I shouldn't talk. As an Ork player, the new book felt like almost nothing but buffs. But again, the previous dex needed some serious work to catch up to the power creep. Pretty darn happy where the book sits as of now.

Oh, and it isn't like C:SM players bitch about the fact they have twelve choices for Heavy Support compared to Blood Angels' eight.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

You mean the Codex that was so bad it made the entire army practically unplayable?
They could take a dump on a piece of paper and it would be better than the 5th edition Codex.

So yeah, the new Codex is a dozen times better than what we had before.

There is one thing that is objectively worse about this codex and that is the fact that Gabriel Seth doesn't kick the enemy in the junk if they screw up near him.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

From what I am seeing it looks to be a Good Codex if just from the points adjustments.

Thx for the deletion mods. Its not like you could have just trimmed the top or anything. God forbid you should leave theOn-topic text alone...

AlexRae wrote:
Writing poor rules is not conducive to selling models. The new Librarian is pretty. I will buy one.

Well unless the libby costs 400$ each it is not comperable to what buying a unit times x is. Even if someone like the model , even if more people may like the model, it can't compare to the sells a unit with good rules has. A riptide could have had the ugliest model in the world and people would have bought them in 6th. Aegis could have been overcosted and ugly, but people bought them anyway in 6th. And those aren't the ugliest models in the game. Oblits are probably one at the top of worse models ever done by GW, yet all chaos player have them.On the other hand few, if any chaos player ever bought raptors. And even if they did, they didn't max out FA slots.

Rules sell more models, the looks do. In the 4th, terminator and dreadnoughts were selling like meta, then they stoped in 5th. untile GK came and suddenly they were selling well again.
How well do falcons sell, the model didn't get uglier compering to 4th, when people were killing each other to get their hands on at least 3.

I don't know how good the new BA codex is. I don't play BA and I have yet to play against an army from the new codex. But I know that RAS and razorbacks will not sell well., and JP DC will. Now if it is just a coinicident that units like sanguine guard or jump DC were not used in codex before this one, I don't know, only GW knows and they sure won't tell.

Yeh, Makumba you just made the exact same point I already made. Dunno why you cropped out half of my post....

Okay. I'm kinda new to 7th, but why can't BA just use two combined arms detachments? Is it just the four troops no one wants?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

You mean the Codex that was so bad it made the entire army practically unplayable?
They could take a dump on a piece of paper and it would be better than the 5th edition Codex.

So yeah, the new Codex is a dozen times better than what we had before.

The costs made the 5th ed codex untenable in 7th ed.

AlexRae wrote:Yup

----

Anyone noticed that there is a Relic called Gallian's Staff but there are no points for it in the Wargear list?

Cool. Keep up the good work.

And no, I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it. I guess we'll get an FAQ in a couple of months.

Edit: Found it in the Librarian entry.

casvalremdeikun wrote:Repost from the Tactics thread.

As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.

1. Fast Vehicles - Seriously, being starting that Baal Pred, Pred, or Vindicator out at the edge of your deployment zone and likely being able to get in range with all of your weapons is pretty awesome. 2 Melta Bombs for something like that is a steal.
2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...
3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.
4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him.
5. Sanguinary Guard - Ten man squads of cheaper, faster Terminators? Yes please!
6. Lemartes - Twenty points off (at the cost of him taking up an extra slot). He did get nerfed some. Still, I love the murderous little bastard.
7. Tactical Squads - FLAMERS! While it might not be the most effective thing, a Cowboy Sergeant, Flamer, and Heavy Flamer squad is going to be pretty cool to run. Pop a few bolt pistol shots and Charge away. Would've liked for them to be able to take a Chainsword though for a couple points. Would've stopped some of the complaints Re: Assault Squads. Maybe GW will pull their heads out their rears and FAQ that.

My only complaints are the fact that Assault Squads can't take Razorback at a 35 pt discount. I would also have like to seen the ability to trade bolters for chainswords on Tactical Squads too. Also, way too much competition for the HS slot. If they left the Baal Pred in FA, I would have bought THREE of them. Instead, I probably will only get two Predators. So they lost out on some purchases there. If they did that, I could have bought two TriLC Preds too. Nope. Lost business there, GeeDubs. I don't even know what I am going to run much for FA. Maybe some Land Speeders or Bike Squads. Actually, a Scout Bike Squad to Infiltrate with a Locator Beacon would be kinda fun. Gonna have a Prelim list based on the stuff I have later.

EDIT: Oh, and no LSS for Scouts hurts. Would've liked to buy another one of those. It was a fun model to build.

1. Yeah, it's ok. We had that already, though, and while the point drops are nice, the move from FA to HS for the Baal means you're not getting many and they're not exactly hard to kill.
2. DC are meh now. You'll keep bolt pistols because you want the extra attack and don't want to shoot yourself out of charge range.
3. The relics are not amazing by any measure. The plasma pistol is over priced junk, the finkin cap has limitations (see my previous posts, in addition to other posters having corrected you on how it actually works), a jump based army doesn't work (complete my list challenge as detailed in a previous post to prove me wrong). The sword is fine, but nothing to write home about.
4. Dante is a trap. Close to Land Raider cost, you still need an HQ and the Troops tax. What's left for your list? Not a lot.
5. Better than before, still crap.
6. Nerfed, not even close to worth it.
7. Better in the SM codex.

WarbossDakka wrote:I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

My kneejerk reaction would be to say that it can't possibly be worse than before, but the more think about it the less certain I become.

PastelAvenger wrote:We have 4 elite slots, repeat 4 what are you wanting to take where you can't fit it in in 4 elite slots?

You can literally take 1 of every elite choice (if the rumours are true)

It's a shame about the Baals they really don't deserve to be in Heavy but it's still a good tank with a points decrease so I'm happy.

There are 11 Elites choices in the book. It's not a big deal though, since none of them are particularly impressive.

Melevolence wrote:The salt in this thread is real. I don't mean to come off as rude. But this has been the trend for a while. Most codecies coming out now have not been really either better nor worse than their predecessors. You get buffs here, nerfs there. So it's more like a wash, really.

Perhaps I shouldn't talk. As an Ork player, the new book felt like almost nothing but buffs. But again, the previous dex needed some serious work to catch up to the power creep. Pretty darn happy where the book sits as of now.

The BA codex was the worst book in the game, no competition. Not only is it worse/same power level, but it has been purged of anything resembling a non-vanilla build and all of the common BA builds are now impossible without going Unbound.

casvalremdeikun wrote:There is one thing that is objectively worse about this codex and that is the fact that Gabriel Seth doesn't kick the enemy in the junk if they screw up near him.

There are several units that are objectively worse than before. See my previous posts for more details.

Anpu42 wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I would like to know your overall opinions of the codex. Better or worse than 5th?

From what I am seeing it looks to be a Good Codex if just from the points adjustments.

What's good about it then? Can you do my list challenge?

Love doom and gloom people, there will be a list or two that is good, every codex has them. Just have to wait for the Meta to level out.

The book is worse than before because you have to spend around 200+ points on stuff you dont want to take in Troops tax to take the things you do want from Elites.

People posting about how their army from 6th is now 150pts cheaper in 7th are overlooking the fact it has 0 Objective Secured and probably isnt even close a legal 'bound' list due to FoC slot movements.