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The Vanilla Marine captain/CM on a bike to unlock Bikes as troops is in no way a tax because they all do wonderful things. They are either very good in combat with the Eternal Shield and a Fist/Hammer, or they are Khan who makes bikes even better with Scout.

The BA HQs have little synergy with their units. Aside from the Priest who buffs Sanguinary Guard and makes DC hit a bit better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and proof GW don't know what they are doing

For 85pts you get a Razorback with T/L Assault Cannon AV11 on the front, Fast vehicle, can get Ob Sec, transports up to 6 models.

For 115pts you get a Baal pred that is AV13 on the front, Fast vehicle, never Ob Sec, doesn't have any transport capacity. And NO LONGER HAS SCOUT.

Why would you buy a Baal? Ever.

 Thud wrote:




For those of you happy with the codex, can you make a list matching the following criteria?

- 1500 points, battle forged.
- You can use allies, but the BA part should at least be close to 2/3 of the list.
- Not just a worse version of a SM list.
- Not garbage that will just get blown off the table by any reasonably good list (you don't need to dominate WS spam, just have an honest chance against good armies).

Give me time for battlescribe to update or me to get the codex, and I'll build you some lists that I would be happy taking to any gaming group not interested in breaking 40k.

As to your other points, I'll put that down to a difference in viewpoint. To me, DC and SangGuard got much better as I was perfectly happy using them at the old costs, so it's a straight up plus in my eyes. I have no issue getting the likes of Termies or Land Raiders to work at their current cost, and most core units got cheaper and got always-on FC, so that's an improvement. I honestly can't see any unit that got worse or that I wouldn't happily use, except Tycho, so I'm calling it a good book.

DC didnt get much better. Their Jump Packs just got much cheaper. If you wanted to run them in a pod say as a body guard for Mephiston, they got worse.

Furioso's got worse. Baals got worse.

Baals lost Scout which was hardly the defining feature of them.
And I must note that they also went down in price so I wouldn't complain.

And how exactly did Furiosos get worse? Not trying to challenge you here, I just missed that information.

 Thud wrote:

- 1500 points, battle forged.
- You can use allies, but the BA part should at least be close to 2/3 of the list.
- Not just a worse version of a SM list.
- Not garbage that will just get blown off the table by any reasonably good list (you don't need to dominate WS spam, just have an honest chance against good armies).

Let's give it a shot. Hard to say without the codex, I have to do the prices approx.

HQ

Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest
(add combi-gun if feeling like it)

Fragioso (Pod)
Fragioso (Pod)

8x Assault Marines (Pod)
Dual Special weapons
Mephiston and Priest will join

5x Tactical Marines, spec/heavy weapon (Razorback, upgraded turret)
5x Tactical Marines, s/hw (Razorback, upgraded turret)

3x Baal Predator


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With allies, it's a different list.
3x Centurions within a Drop Pod and with a Priest comes deadly real quick.

My problem with most of the lists people are posting is that they have nothing to deal with flyers.

 Paradigm wrote:
Give me time for battlescribe to update or me to get the codex, and I'll build you some lists that I would be happy taking to any gaming group not interested in breaking 40k.

As to your other points, I'll put that down to a difference in viewpoint. To me, DC and SangGuard got much better as I was perfectly happy using them at the old costs, so it's a straight up plus in my eyes. I have no issue getting the likes of Termies or Land Raiders to work at their current cost, and most core units got cheaper and got always-on FC, so that's an improvement. I honestly can't see any unit that got worse or that I wouldn't happily use, except Tycho, so I'm calling it a good book.

I think I can see where this is going. You'll dismiss me because the power level I'm used to is "breaking the game" and I'll dismiss you because the power level you're used to is "crappy lists by crappy players." Now, we could do that dance, but I'd rather not. Instead, while you're waiting for Battlescribe, could you try to explain to me the max power level in your meta? For me, it's battle-forged, 2 detachments, limited lords of war (nothing with ranged AP2 that ignores cover, no flying gargantuans), FW is allowed, and beyond that anything goes. I normally play against the ETC team, so only "tournament netlists" but also occasionally against fluffy kittens. How many Wave Serpents could I take before you told me I have broken the game? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to know so we can have a productive conversation instead of arguing over who's having fun and who's killing the hobby.

As for DC, you'll have to explain to me how. Since 6th came out, the only way I've used them (except when I'm being silly) is 5 man, one PF, with Chaplain, in either a Land Raider, Stormraven, or with jump packs. In all cases they are worse. Without the packs, the unit is 10 points cheaper and the DC themselves are scoring (not very significant since the Chaplain already scored, and was the last guy to die), but WS 4, I don't re-roll to wound and the Land Raider is not objective secured. With jump packs, I'm 55 points cheaper, but don't get re-rolls to wound. Scoring issue is the same. If I want re-roll to wound I have to take Astorath, and I'm back at the same point level. If I also want my WS5 back, the unit suddenly becomes very expensive. In addition, for all of these options, I'm using an HQ slot, which has suddenly become in high demand due to Priests being HQ. They're not suddenly garbage compared to what they were, but I can't see how you could possibly say they're any better.

Sanguinary Guard are cheaper than before, yes. But now can't get obsec. And they still have the same issues they had. They are either A) easily killed and unimpressive in assault, or B) very expensive and no longer worth it. What kind of build are you envisioning with these guys? 5 naked guys for some disturbance? A couple of melta pistols to cause issues in the backfield? Or a decked out squad accompanied by characters to beat some face? All of these options have serious issued, and none of them come close to what I'd describe as good.

And always-on FC is not an improvement. Sure, with no context I'd say yes to getting FC for free for everyone. But that's a bit of a disingenuous view to take. As I see it, you're basically getting a Space Marine army, and instead of a useful chapter tactic, you're getting FC.

And if you honestly can't see units getting worse, well... Baal Predators lost scout, became heavy support and dropped ten points on sponsons. That is worse. There are no two ways around it. They're worse. Furiosos with frag cannons became five points more expensive. That's worse. Attack Bikes became five points more expensive. That's worse. Assault Marines lost obsec, became a liability in The Scouring, lost re-rolls to reserve and more precise deep strikes, lost options for Razorbacks and Land Raiders (obsec Land Raiders at that), and in return gained the option for two specials in a five man squad and a small point drop (which is paid for by losing LD9). That is undeniably worse. And BA isn't Eldar. This wasn't some super awesome book that had its most OP units brought back in line. This was the unquestionably worst codex in the game.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
My problem with most of the lists people are posting is that they have nothing to deal with flyers.

I really didn't want to bring up the Stormraven tax. There's enough bad mojo coming out of this book.

 Thud wrote:


I honestly can't see any unit that got worse or that I wouldn't happily use, except Tycho, so I'm calling it a good book.

With the changes to sanguinary priests we have gone from a force that had near army wide FNP to having one perhaps two units affected by it, this is a servere nerf to all the infantry in the book. FC is good but dropping survivability by 1/3 is huge.

Sang guard and death company are pretty decent or at least perfectly playable but the rest of the list just seems to be a bad version of the other available space marine codex's. Hell we're the blood angels and dedicated transports aside we have no units available in our fast attack slot that aren't in the basic book and they have other good options in there extra. I don't want game breaking stuff just something interesting and flavourful to use.

Survivability did not drop by 1/3. Power armor save is 66% and power armor with FNP is 78%. It's only a full 33% on AP 3 or AP 2 hits.

Still, it feels kinda hollow.

AlexRae wrote:
The Vanilla Marine captain/CM on a bike to unlock Bikes as troops is in no way a tax because they all do wonderful things. They are either very good in combat with the Eternal Shield and a Fist/Hammer, or they are Khan who makes bikes even better with Scout.

The BA HQs have little synergy with their units. Aside from the Priest who buffs Sanguinary Guard and makes DC hit a bit better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and proof GW don't know what they are doing

For 85pts you get a Razorback with T/L Assault Cannon AV11 on the front, Fast vehicle, can get Ob Sec, transports up to 6 models.

For 115pts you get a Baal pred that is AV13 on the front, Fast vehicle, never Ob Sec, doesn't have any transport capacity. And NO LONGER HAS SCOUT.

Why would you buy a Baal? Ever.

Because its AV 13 on the front? that's the difference to it getting popped by small arms fire and surviving to actually kill something.

 Thud wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Give me time for battlescribe to update or me to get the codex, and I'll build you some lists that I would be happy taking to any gaming group not interested in breaking 40k.

As to your other points, I'll put that down to a difference in viewpoint. To me, DC and SangGuard got much better as I was perfectly happy using them at the old costs, so it's a straight up plus in my eyes. I have no issue getting the likes of Termies or Land Raiders to work at their current cost, and most core units got cheaper and got always-on FC, so that's an improvement. I honestly can't see any unit that got worse or that I wouldn't happily use, except Tycho, so I'm calling it a good book.

I think I can see where this is going. You'll dismiss me because the power level I'm used to is "breaking the game" and I'll dismiss you because the power level you're used to is "crappy lists by crappy players." Now, we could do that dance, but I'd rather not. Instead, while you're waiting for Battlescribe, could you try to explain to me the max power level in your meta? For me, it's battle-forged, 2 detachments, limited lords of war (nothing with ranged AP2 that ignores cover, no flying gargantuans), FW is allowed, and beyond that anything goes. I normally play against the ETC team, so only "tournament netlists" but also occasionally against fluffy kittens. How many Wave Serpents could I take before you told me I have broken the game? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to know so we can have a productive conversation instead of arguing over who's having fun and who's killing the hobby. [/spoiler]

First off, thanks for appreciating that we're coming at this from different angles and trying to find a middle ground, the discussion will be far more productive this way.

The power level in my meta is hard to define as we don't really have any limits in place, but everyone just builds armies based on fluff/aesthetics so we don't need them. But for argument's sake, let's say unlimited detachments, FW and Unbound goes, Superheavies are fine with prior warning. The lists also vary a lot, but to give some examples of what I see a regularly:

Tau with a one Riptide, Fire Warriors in Devilfish, one or two Kroot screening units, Hammerhead/Skyrays in HS and Crisis Teams in Elites.
Crons with two to three large Warrior blobs, Immortals, Stalker, Doomsday and Spyder or Abarges in HS, Wraiths with a Doors
Wolves with TWC+Lord, Pod GH, Wolf Guard Termies, Dreads
Rhino/Pod hybrid SM with a few squads of Tacticals, Sternguard, Ironclad, Termies, Press or Whirlwinds in HS

So not world beating, but not what I'd call incompetent or bad lists. In terms of Serpents, I'd say 3 at 1500 would be reasonable, basically 1 per 500 points. I have no issues with people using good units, just not to excessive degrees.

As for DC, you'll have to explain to me how. Since 6th came out, the only way I've used them (except when I'm being silly) is 5 man, one PF, with Chaplain, in either a Land Raider, Stormraven, or with jump packs. In all cases they are worse. Without the packs, the unit is 10 points cheaper and the DC themselves are scoring (not very significant since the Chaplain already scored, and was the last guy to die), but WS 4, I don't re-roll to wound and the Land Raider is not objective secured. With jump packs, I'm 55 points cheaper, but don't get re-rolls to wound. Scoring issue is the same. If I want re-roll to wound I have to take Astorath, and I'm back at the same point level. If I also want my WS5 back, the unit suddenly becomes very expensive. In addition, for all of these options, I'm using an HQ slot, which has suddenly become in high demand due to Priests being HQ. They're not suddenly garbage compared to what they were, but I can't see how you could possibly say they're any better.

I ran 5-10 with CS/BP in a Land Raider as my line breaker, sometimes with a Chaplain. I'd trade the WS5 for being able to score, and the cheaper JP opens up a new way to field them, which before was prohibitively expensive. While they may not be straight better, they haven't got worse as far as I can see, and are certainly still useable.

Sanguinary Guard are cheaper than before, yes. But now can't get obsec. And they still have the same issues they had. They are either A) easily killed and unimpressive in assault, or B) very expensive and no longer worth it. What kind of build are you envisioning with these guys? 5 naked guys for some disturbance? A couple of melta pistols to cause issues in the backfield? Or a decked out squad accompanied by characters to beat some face? All of these options have serious issued, and none of them come close to what I'd describe as good.

Typically, I run 5 with 1 Fist and the banner, as an assassination squad that goes after smallish units and carves them up quickly. As for how they have changed, they got 7ppm cheaper and gained old school FC, meaning they're now better at what they do. Definitely an improvement.

And always-on FC is not an improvement. Sure, with no context I'd say yes to getting FC for free for everyone. But that's a bit of a disingenuous view to take. As I see it, you're basically getting a Space Marine army, and instead of a useful chapter tactic, you're getting FC.

I'd call FC (especially with the Init boost as well)

a good Chapter Tactic, and one that fits the style and theme of the army.

And if you honestly can't see units getting worse, well... Baal Predators lost scout, became heavy support and dropped ten points on sponsons. That is worse. There are no two ways around it. They're worse. Furiosos with frag cannons became five points more expensive. That's worse. Attack Bikes became five points more expensive. That's worse. Assault Marines lost obsec, became a liability in The Scouring, lost re-rolls to reserve and more precise deep strikes, lost options for Razorbacks and Land Raiders (obsec Land Raiders at that), and in return gained the option for two specials in a five man squad and a small point drop (which is paid for by losing LD9). That is undeniably worse. And BA isn't Eldar. This wasn't some super awesome book that had its most OP units brought back in line. This was the unquestionably worst codex in the game.

Baals also got cheaper, so that's a wash. Fragiosos maybe, but not significantly as they're still plenty good for the price. Assaults for better at assaulting with FC and the detachment, still get free transports should you want them, and can now pack 4 Specials/pistols in 5 men.

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
My problem with most of the lists people are posting is that they have nothing to deal with flyers.

I really didn't want to bring up the Stormraven tax. There's enough bad mojo coming out of this book.

meh, there are also fortifications that can also deal with the problem as well. For a lot cheaper $ and pointswise.

Bleh. Dakka's loudest Blood Angel voices are also the most negative.

I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, it's just a super-downer.

The baal is still useful, in games where objectives matter most "competitive net lists" use small fast ob sec units, ie 3 person jetbike squad. A fast tank thats fast with decent armor and has templates is quite good at clearing objectives of weedy ob sec troop units like DS rippers, jetbikes, a 5 man scout squad, lone tau battlesuit, etc.

regarding the heavy elites section, wait until the blood angel supplement comes out to see how everything pans out. Most of the codexes now are really 2 books, the main and supplement, and a lot of them have had a heavy hand in one FO slot that seems to be the required/overflowing slot in the supplement.

example- coven lists for Dark Eldar, all the coven units were elites, supplement is coven and has elites as required and most of the option, orks had a lot of elites as well, new supplement comes out and most of choices are....elites...GK..etc

Personally I think Blood Angels are the MEQ Troop Choice out there now.
With the Options for a Heavy Flamer, S+1, I+1, on the Assault they now are better than Grey Hunters in what everyone Says Grey Hunters re for.
You can Put 5 In a Pod with a Heavy Flamer with a Combi-Flamer or 2 Hand-Flamers and clear out Units in Cover Quickly and Efficiently.
Add 5 Guys and an extra Flamer to do even better at taking out more In Cover Units.

10 Models with 2 Hand-Flamers, a Flamer, 1 Heavy Flamer in a Pod.
Pod In, Combat Squad
Srarge puts 2x Flamers in to Unit One and Target #2 gets a Flamer and a Heavy Flamer.
Drop 2-3 on Turn One.

If they Assault you go multiple d3 Overwatch Fires.
If you Survive till Turn Two you can put out a lot of S5, I5 Attacks.

As for a Question: The Honor Guard/Command Squad, how much are they like the old Honor Guard?

Assuming they make it to combat and face all infantry.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Assuming they make it to combat and face all infantry.

And there are not Infantry Heavy List out there?

 Anpu42 wrote:
Personally I think Blood Angels are the MEQ Troop Choice out there now.
With the Options for a Heavy Flamer, S+1, I+1, on the Assault they now are better than Grey Hunters in what everyone Says Grey Hunters re for.
You can Put 5 In a Pod with a Heavy Flamer with a Combi-Flamer or 2 Hand-Flamers and clear out Units in Cover Quickly and Efficiently.
Add 5 Guys and an extra Flamer to do even better at taking out more In Cover Units.

10 Models with 2 Hand-Flamers, a Flamer, 1 Heavy Flamer in a Pod.
Pod In, Combat Squad
Srarge puts 2x Flamers in to Unit One and Target #2 gets a Flamer and a Heavy Flamer.
Drop 2-3 on Turn One.

If they Assault you go multiple d3 Overwatch Fires.
If you Survive till Turn Two you can put out a lot of S5, I5 Attacks.

As for a Question: The Honor Guard/Command Squad, how much are they like the old Honor Guard?

As usual, spoiling assault completely neuter the BA combat scheme. Spoiling assault play right into the scheme of the Grey Hunters. Grey Hunters are still much, much better.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Personally I think Blood Angels are the MEQ Troop Choice out there now.
With the Options for a Heavy Flamer, S+1, I+1, on the Assault they now are better than Grey Hunters in what everyone Says Grey Hunters re for.
You can Put 5 In a Pod with a Heavy Flamer with a Combi-Flamer or 2 Hand-Flamers and clear out Units in Cover Quickly and Efficiently.
Add 5 Guys and an extra Flamer to do even better at taking out more In Cover Units.

10 Models with 2 Hand-Flamers, a Flamer, 1 Heavy Flamer in a Pod.
Pod In, Combat Squad
Srarge puts 2x Flamers in to Unit One and Target #2 gets a Flamer and a Heavy Flamer.
Drop 2-3 on Turn One.

If they Assault you go multiple d3 Overwatch Fires.
If you Survive till Turn Two you can put out a lot of S5, I5 Attacks.

As for a Question: The Honor Guard/Command Squad, how much are they like the old Honor Guard?

As usual, spoiling assault completely neuter the BA combat scheme. Spoiling assault play right into the scheme of the Grey Hunters. Grey Hunters are still much, much better.

Feel Free to Assault my 4 Flamer Templates

Yes Grey Hunters Get Counter-Attack, but to get those Massive Number of Attacks I have to Pay for all of those Chain Swords.

Pretty sure counter attack was free for SW.

Also, no one is scared of hand flamers. Not even Xenos. It's a good idea, but I ran this in 6th ed, and it's not that great. It's even worse when the Dire Avengers just go, "LOL catapults! You all die!"

Martel732 wrote:
Pretty sure counter attack was free for SW.

Yes it is, but the Chainswords cost me 2 PPM.
You get Furious Charge and with the Detachment +1 Initiative for Free.

Also, no one is scared of hand flamers. Not even Xenos. It's a good idea, but I ran this in 6th ed, and it's not that great. It's even worse when the Dire Avengers just go, "LOL catapults! You all die!"

The Local Ork player cringes as Assaulting 1-2 Flamer Temples, 4 just makes him really unhappy.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Pretty sure counter attack was free for SW.

Yes it is, but the Chainswords cost me 2 PPM.
You get Furious Charge and with the Detachment +1 Initiative for Free.

Also, no one is scared of hand flamers. Not even Xenos. It's a good idea, but I ran this in 6th ed, and it's not that great. It's even worse when the Dire Avengers just go, "LOL catapults! You all die!"

The Local Ork player cringes as Assaulting 1-2 Flamer Temples, 4 just makes him really unhappy.

He shouldn't cringe, he's T4 getting hit with S3 and S4 attacks. Just take a couple losses and move on. That's what Orks do.

Ah yes, I forgot that the mighty Grey Hunters actually have to pay some points now to utterly embarrass every other marine in the game. They just don't get to show up and win against other meqs. Well, they still do win, but the rest of us get to feel a bit better with the knowledge that they actually had to pay something to do it. Maybe you've not played as BA much, but I'm telling you that having assault powers that only work when you are charging suck. I mean really suck. As in ever since the SW 5th ed codex and 5th ed GK/Necron codices, we might as well not have those abilities. My 6th ed BA were purely shooting with maybe one counter attack squad, which was incredibly weak, but what did anyone expect? It's too easy to stay out of assault range or spoiling assault the BA.

Additional note: I would expect to be completely crushed by C:SM or SW using the codex. So from that perspective, it's situation normal for BA.

Deathcompany upgrades:
Boltgun & sword or PF legal?
Have the upgrades seen a reduction in pts? (yes or no)
Is there a sargent?

Have followed everything but not seen this yet. Thanks in advance. My codex doesn't come till monday, along with 2 more Deathstorms
I want all the models. Termies will be all LCs. Got some LCs off ebay.

DC jump packs are much cheaper. DC have access to all varieties of power weapons I believe. DC are good, but still T4 W1 guys who cost a lot more than tac marines.

Are the command squad's non FOC?

Cheer's.

 Paradigm wrote:


First off, thanks for appreciating that we're coming at this from different angles and trying to find a middle ground, the discussion will be far more productive this way.

The power level in my meta is hard to define as we don't really have any limits in place, but everyone just builds armies based on fluff/aesthetics so we don't need them. But for argument's sake, let's say unlimited detachments, FW and Unbound goes, Superheavies are fine with prior warning. The lists also vary a lot, but to give some examples of what I see a regularly:

Tau with a one Riptide, Fire Warriors in Devilfish, one or two Kroot screening units, Hammerhead/Skyrays in HS and Crisis Teams in Elites.
Crons with two to three large Warrior blobs, Immortals, Stalker, Doomsday and Spyder or Abarges in HS, Wraiths with a Doors
Wolves with TWC+Lord, Pod GH, Wolf Guard Termies, Dreads
Rhino/Pod hybrid SM with a few squads of Tacticals, Sternguard, Ironclad, Termies, Press or Whirlwinds in HS

So not world beating, but not what I'd call incompetent or bad lists. In terms of Serpents, I'd say 3 at 1500 would be reasonable, basically 1 per 500 points. I have no issues with people using good units, just not to excessive degrees.

My tournament Eldar at 1500 is an Autarch on Jetbike with Mantle, 4 Serpents, 3 w/ DA, 1/ Fire Dragons, and two Wraithknights. To tone it down slightly, I'd drop one Serpent and one WK for 2x2 War Walkers w/ double bright lances plus a Crimson Hunter. And, honestly, I can't see how new BA can stand a chance against that. And I'm not even going all out. I could drop the Autarch for a summoning Jetseer. Now what?

But it's not just Eldar. How about a shooty Tau army? Not even optimized, just a couple of Riptides and a couple squads of Broadsides plus the main bulk of whatever. Flamer drop podders won't do much against that, and punchy specialist jump squads will just get cut down. And then there's Centurions, flying Daemons, flying Hive Tyrants, fearless Guard blobs with psychic support, Necrons (either AV13 walls, flyers, or Wraiths), Space Wolf punchy wolfriders, grav bikes, etc. BA are basically Marines, but minus all the tools Marines have to deal with these armies.

I ran 5-10 with CS/BP in a Land Raider as my line breaker, sometimes with a Chaplain. I'd trade the WS5 for being able to score, and the cheaper JP opens up a new way to field them, which before was prohibitively expensive. While they may not be straight better, they haven't got worse as far as I can see, and are certainly still useable.

Well, now that Land Raider is no longer obsec. And your squad is still very expensive, and the Land Raider doesn't really kill anything. And while ten jumpers are now no longer unreasonably costed, without support the five guys who make it (I'm being generous here) won't really do much. Hitting on half the attacks, wounding on two thirds, and then saves... They do better against crap like gants etc, but without Astorath (used to be any old Chaplain) they're pretty useless against things like Carnifexes, 2+ saves, etc. What you're left with is a squad that's still pretty pricey but has relatively few applications.

Typically, I run 5 with 1 Fist and the banner, as an assassination squad that goes after smallish units and carves them up quickly. As for how they have changed, they got 7ppm cheaper and gained old school FC, meaning they're now better at what they do. Definitely an improvement.

That's a straight up improvement from what you had. No argument there. But I still think it's an unimpressive unit. If they had retained 1d6 scatter on deep strike, they would have been a lot better. You can still get the effect, by using Scout Bikes with locator beacons, and drop them down to melt tanks with some infernus pistols and then cause issues, but at that point your plan is pretty fragile, and you've got a lot of points tied up in it. As it is, without Dante especially, deep strikes are pretty risky, at least too risky for melta drops, so you're left with either dropping down in your opponent's backfield for disruption in the following turns (which is not bad, to be fair) or running up field and dying. And with Dante, you're already 400 points into your army list and pretty committed to a tactic I'm, frankly, not very convinced by.

I'd call FC (especially with the Init boost as well) a good Chapter Tactic, and one that fits the style and theme of the army.

I disagree. Since a decent chunk of your army will consist of units that aren't very good in cc in the first place, and you won't have many assault vehicles due to point costs, I think it's pretty wasted. Sure, on the occasion you get a nice charge off against a weak enemy unit, it's nice, but how often does that really happen? Enough to build your army around it? Enough to take it over something else, like scouts or re-rolls to hit? Consider it compared to White Scars; they get chapter tactics that make their bikes a lot better and they get the options to make the most of it, every game. In contrast, BA troops have a buff that is unlikely to be used much at all. It helps your SangGuards, but not the (at minimum) 110 points you have parked in Troops.

This again pushes you towards the playstyle with Dante and his golden guys, and what do you get? Dante, your SangGuard setup, a squad of DC with jump packs and at least one PF, two min units of Scouts, and you're already half way to 1500 points? And you can't stick three thunderfires in there to add some fire power cheaply. You can't stick a unit of Centurions in there to create another big threat you can bring to bear early on. Your only options for fire support and another big threat are AV13 heavies (Baals, regular Preds, or Vindicators) and another group of punchy guys. Plus, of course, an HQ. And that's just about it. You're at 1500 points.

But that's crap. So scratch that, and start over. Furiosos with templates in Pods are still good. Randomly five points more expensive, but still... Three of those, a Priest with jump pack, and either a couple of units of Assault Marines with triple (or quadruple) melta, and you're at 1500 again. At the end of the day, you're not getting a lot of stuff, and it doesn't amount to anything impressive.

You could go another way entirely, like some of the other guys in here are talking about, and do the whole flamer in pod thing. But it's not awesome. It has too many blind spots. They can't deal with Serpents when they come in (and after that, they're dead), they can't deal with MCs, Centurions, Broadsides, FMCs, or any kind of mech. You could do melta in pods instead, but at that point you'd be better of with Vulkan and Salamanders for that re-roll. Because, let's face it, we're all BA players in here, and we know meltaguns miss all the goddamn time.

Baals also got cheaper, so that's a wash. Fragiosos maybe, but not significantly as they're still plenty good for the price. Assaults for better at assaulting with FC and the detachment, still get free transports should you want them, and can now pack 4 Specials/pistols in 5 men.

I don't think it's a wash at all. Baals do not have impressive fire power, and their only shot at glory was to outflank to cause disruption, or as the weak parts of an alpha strike. Now they're nothing but short ranged, fairly expensive Predators in an army that can no longer field any significant amount of AV13. And yes, Furiosos with frags are still good, but nonetheless it's a nonsensical and unneeded nerf.

I think that others are actually more negative about the codex than I am. I'm just apathetic. It's serviceable, but not exciting at all.

So let me get this straight. I have ~10k of BA as my main army.
I can no longer take:
-AV 13 wall (6 baals, 4 vindis and 2 preds)
-Pure jump force
-Corbulo making any star
-Land Raider spam
-Sanguinary Guard army
-(not that I have this one) razorback wall

Basically every standard BA build there was. Quite a comercial coup by GW making almost every BA player have to invest to adapt.

Please tell me that DC and SG have had a HUGE cost reduction.

DC, no. Their jump packs, yes. SG got significantly cheaper, but they are still victims, I feel.

SG also got the ability to go to 10 man, so the banner upgrade has a lot more value.