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Martel732 wrote:
From what I can tell of 7th, it's about either surviving withering firepower or silencing the withering firepower with firepower of your own. I don't see how this codex does either, honestly.

And you expected that from a Blood Angels army? I'm not trying to be an ass, but that is so not what our army is about.

Just wait until the stupid xenos get their new codices and get nerfed down to being equal with the rest of us!

To be fair, the BA were quite good in shoot outs in 5th. 6th gutted nearly all of our 5th ed tricks, and so I kind of didn't know what to expect.

I suspect we will find ourselves stranded in the can't shoot well enough, but can't assault well enough no man's land that kind of plagued us with the White Dwarf codex. Glancing through the codex, I have no more confidence against Eldar than I did before.

Let it sit for awhile, Martel, and see what happens. You already had the reputation as the guy on Dakka who had BA but thought they were trash.

As for Eldar, to be fair I don't know I'd have confidence against the cheesier Eldar lists regardless of who I play as.

Well, they were trash. The promotion to medicore is welcomed, but they still have all the problems of meqs, and have fewer special snowflakes than the standard marine book.

Martel732 wrote:
To be fair, the BA were quite good in shoot outs in 5th. 6th gutted nearly all of our 5th ed tricks, and so I kind of didn't know what to expect.

I suspect we will find ourselves stranded in the can't shoot well enough, but can't assault well enough no man's land that kind of plagued us with the White Dwarf codex. Glancing through the codex, I have no more confidence against Eldar than I did before.

Fair enough! I'm almost worried about the opposite problem with assault; hitting too hard and plowing right through softer units, only to be shot to pieces the next turn!

I feel like making us competitive against Eldar isn't really the solution, as Eldar are ridiculously OP at the moment; rather, Eldar need to get brought down to a more reasonable power level. I think the continuous "one upping" that used to happen is exactly what GW is currently trying to roll back. From here on out, I think we can expect most codices to seem pretty "meh" at first glance.

I'm holding out that this all turns out to be a good thing in the long run.

 BrokenRecord wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
To be fair, the BA were quite good in shoot outs in 5th. 6th gutted nearly all of our 5th ed tricks, and so I kind of didn't know what to expect.

I suspect we will find ourselves stranded in the can't shoot well enough, but can't assault well enough no man's land that kind of plagued us with the White Dwarf codex. Glancing through the codex, I have no more confidence against Eldar than I did before.

Fair enough! I'm almost worried about the opposite problem with assault; hitting too hard and plowing right through softer units, only to be shot to pieces the next turn!

I feel like making us competitive against Eldar isn't really the solution, as Eldar are ridiculously OP at the moment; rather, Eldar need to get brought down to a more reasonable power level. I think the continuous "one upping" that used to happen is exactly what GW is currently trying to roll back. From here on out, I think we can expect most codices to seem pretty "meh" at first glance.

I'm holding out that this all turns out to be a good thing in the long run.

Well, that explains why no one switched in my area off Eldar despite 7th ed dropping.

If I were trying to play a traditional BA assault style list, I would still be very concerned about being cut to pieces by shooting before I even arrive. The whole hitting too hard thing and then being stranded out of HtH is a 1st world problem compared to not getting there. It doesn't have to be Eldar, either. I don't know what this codex is giving me against grav bikers/grav star, either.

 Arschbombe wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

But moving a Troop-only unit to Fast Attack is different and I don't think anyone expected that.

People may not have expected it, but they certainly feared it. They knew, deep down, that it was an anomaly. Nobody else gets jump infantry as troops. They're elites or fast attack. Scourges, Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks, Sky Claws, Vanilla Assault Marines, Stormboyz etc.

I wouldn't be surprised by a Formation similar in nature to Skyblight Swarm (Tyranids) that allows the Assault Marines to be Objective Secured, the way the Gargoyles are. This would give back the Assault Marine "Troop Feel", and by adding in the typical FOC tax that comes with Formations, GW get's to balance it out against other armies.

rpricew wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised by a Formation similar in nature to Skyblight Swarm (Tyranids) that allows the Assault Marines to be Objective Secured, the way the Gargoyles are. This would give back the Assault Marine "Troop Feel", and by adding in the typical FOC tax that comes with Formations, GW get's to balance it out against other armies.

This is basically what I'm holding out hope for. My 3 main armies have all gotten updates this year (Orks, GK, BA) and each one has been more disappointing that the last. I'm really trying to be patient waiting for a supllement, formations, or detachments that can fix what I've heard so far.

The Space Marine codex isn't actually very good outside of bike armies and grav centurions.

Martel732 wrote:
If I were trying to play a traditional BA assault style list, I would still be very concerned about being cut to pieces by shooting before I even arrive. The whole hitting too hard thing and then being stranded out of HtH is a 1st world problem compared to not getting there.

Failing a charge sucks pretty hard, we've all agreed with that since 6th dropped. It also makes it harder to pull back punches in assault. I think this was someone's earlier point. We'll walk through lightly armored units and get shot to death the following turn or get owned by dedicated assault units. Both death company and sanguinary guard can't stand toe to toe with anything that has an invuln.

 th3maninblak wrote:


Really? Because the reaction from most people who already have it in hand is that its pretty awesome. Assault marines no longer being troops is LITERALLY the only bad thing about it.

I'm more upset by the moving of 60% of the troops choices. It literally breaks my army and I'll have to double force-org to even play it similar to what it was before.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:


Really? Because the reaction from most people who already have it in hand is that its pretty awesome. Assault marines no longer being troops is LITERALLY the only bad thing about it.

I'm more upset by the moving of 60% of the troops choices. It literally breaks my army and I'll have to double force-org to even play it similar to what it was before.

All part of GW's plan, I'm sure.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:


Really? Because the reaction from most people who already have it in hand is that its pretty awesome. Assault marines no longer being troops is LITERALLY the only bad thing about it.

I'm more upset by the moving of 60% of the troops choices. It literally breaks my army and I'll have to double force-org to even play it similar to what it was before.

Sounds like a whole lot of suck but it not even remotely surprising.

I think the key to all this is to never buy more than 2 of anything specific besides DT. (Unless you are going for an actual collection (ie: a full company)

Im fine with more SM codexes moving into middle of the road as well. i dont think anyone really excpected another WS analog.

It's still a bit disappointing to get a codex strictly worse than vanilla and SW.

twinner wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Landspeeder Storm an option for Scouts?

It is not.

NoooOoooooOooooo!!!11!1111One!!! I play Dark Angels and was thinking about starting a detachment of Blood Angels....and really love the idea of the Landspeeder Storm (and the model!) Why do these Codex chapters not have access to this STC design!?!?!? I don't want to have to take a frackin' 3rd detachment to get this model on the table...and since the troop tax is a thing again, I really would have liked the ability to throw some scouts into one of these. I am genuinely upset

I think instead of making us get into assault more reliably, GW made us hit harder than any other assault force in the game. That way even if 75% of a squad is killed going across the table, the remaining 1/4 is going to kill the first squad it touches, regardless of what it is.

I think its fun that way. Your opponent gets the thrill of blowing marines off the table, and you get the thrill of your last 3 death company out of a 10 man squad wiping an entire unit.

We have so many rules making us awesome in close combat now. Psychic powers that boost initiative or attacks (or both), or give us a 5++, furious charge, +1 init, rage, abundant power weapons. Its really awesome.

Do tacticals have an option to purchase a CCW like GH can?

 th3maninblak wrote:
I think instead of making us get into assault more reliably, GW made us hit harder than any other assault force in the game. That way even if 75% of a squad is killed going across the table, the remaining 1/4 is going to kill the first squad it touches, regardless of what it is.

I think its fun that way. Your opponent gets the thrill of blowing marines off the table, and you get the thrill of your last 3 death company out of a 10 man squad wiping an entire unit.

We have so many rules making us awesome in close combat now. Psychic powers that boost initiative or attacks (or both), or give us a 5++, furious charge, +1 init, rage, abundant power weapons. Its really awesome.

I don't think that's going to work as well as you think it is. The BA aren't THAT good in HtH, and anti-meq tech is everywhere in 7th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Do tacticals have an option to purchase a CCW like GH can?

I didn't see it. I don't own it yet though. I'm on the fence. So SW still kinda LOL at us.

Also, is Seth's save a 2+ or 3+?

 th3maninblak wrote:
So let me get this straight, he has a sick warlord trait, with the possibility of 2, a melta gun in pistol form, eternal warrior, a str6 ap2 at initiative weapon, artificer armor, a 6 inch fear bubble, a jump pack... am i missing anything?

For 2.20 thunderfire cannons. Holy crap.

Doesn't he get furious charge as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
Nobody is rubbing anyone's faces in anything.

The internet is awash with BA tears that their troops section has been bought in line with the rest of the game.

Is that we should tell the SM bike squads?

Martel732 wrote:
It's still a bit disappointing to get a codex strictly worse than vanilla and SW.

I have not see the BA codex, but I would doubt that it is worse than SW.

oz of the north wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's still a bit disappointing to get a codex strictly worse than vanilla and SW.

I have not see the BA codex, but I would doubt that it is worse than SW.

I HAVE seen the SW codex, and the BA codex for about 20 min. Between that, and the summary threads, I'd say the SW are solidly better. The difference is not significant, perhaps, when put against power lists, but it is relevant in BA vs SW. It's now a match up BA have been losing for over a decade. Against many foes though, BA and SW both get shot to death equally well.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

twinner wrote:

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Are furioso dreadnoughts till able to keep making attacks if they successfully wound in close combat?

Where there any buffs to furioso dreadnoughts?

It got nerfed, no more additional attacks. Point stayed the same, but upgrades cost more.

Well that certainly sucks, it was a fun dreadnought to run, but it just wasn't very good last codex and if it is even worse now I think I will probably skip the new codex after seeing the lackluster update it got.

The Blood Talons are AP2 now though, so they can take on some 2+armour and get a bonus on the vehicle damage table. They are also S10 as well so they can have a good go at Land Raiders. Their role has just changed a bit really.

I like the new blood talons better. honestly. I never used the old ones.

Hey guys these are my last answers for this Codex. Thanks for all the questions!

More Dakka wrote:DOH! Can Sang Guard take Storm Shields?

No

lawlskees wrote:Do space marine tactical sergeants get artificer armor option?

No

StarHunter25 wrote:Do tacticals have an option to purchase a CCW like GH can?

Not that I can see.

StarHunter25 wrote:Also, is Seth's save a 2+ or 3+?

3+/4++

Thank you for the thread. It breaks my heart but I'm done with BA. Silver lining, you did save me $50. Ravenguard here I come.

Guys... So much whine, not a single game played. Many have brought up that question and I ask it again. Did you really expect to be as good as the supercheese lists from eldar? Can't you see, what problems that would cause? Please sit back and think about it. Which armies do you see with a clear advantage against this new codex? And please don't be offended, but you can't grasp a whole new codex within minutes.

Thank you twinner for this thread!

rhavien wrote:
Guys... So much whine, not a single game played. Many have brought up that question and I ask it again. Did you really expect to be as good as the supercheese lists from eldar? Can't you see, what problems that would cause? Please sit back and think about it. Which armies do you see with a clear advantage against this new codex? And please don't be offended, but you can't grasp a whole new codex within minutes.

Thank you twinner for this thread!

Cannot exalt enough

 IHateNids wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Guys... So much whine, not a single game played. Many have brought up that question and I ask it again. Did you really expect to be as good as the supercheese lists from eldar? Can't you see, what problems that would cause? Please sit back and think about it. Which armies do you see with a clear advantage against this new codex? And please don't be offended, but you can't grasp a whole new codex within minutes.

Thank you twinner for this thread!

Cannot exalt enough

srsly

Actually, this one is so similar to C:SM, that yeah, I kinda can. That and I have been played BA a long, long time. These BA are just good enough to give hope, but not good enough to close the deal against strong lists.

Once more, thanks to the OP for all this information!

I have to say I am very keen to get gaming with this new codex, it looks very nicely composed.

And the prophet has returned

In all seriousness. Blood Angel players are now mostly happy that our stuff is no longer overpriced crab, but I think that Martel is right.
Simple point reductions can't change the fact that we are an assault army in an era of gunlines.

Still, I see more hope for Blood Angels now.
The Death Company might actually work with reduced JP cost. 23ppm is a lot for a marine, but they are still a fast and deadly unit with FnP.
And as the ASM and Tacticals are cheaper now, we get more of the good stuff on the table, like fast Predators, decent Dreads and able Psykers.

Compared to the regular Space Marines we are still fighting uphill because of the lack of massed Bikes (altough this is more doable now I suppose) and Grav-stars.
Nontheless, we are no longer fighting with one hand behind our back. We now have more firepower to back up our advancement of assault troops and I suspect that Blood Angels will be seen more even in the tournament play (they can by no means be seen less...).