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 JamesY wrote:
@ jonolikespie giving bad service isn't the same as saying no. You can't play specialist games in the stores for the same reason that you can't play 30k. It's a reasonable trade off for a free gaming environment that you are using products that helps support the store you are in.

Except people could come in and use GW models they'd bought at a discount online and there wouldn't be a damn thing the manager could do about it, so there's no guarantee of support.

In fact, it is possible that someone using FW getting all their supplies from the store actually contributes more than someone who plays a purely GW made army who buys all elsewhere.

It is a stupid and arbitrary situation which the company needs to address, opening up in store terminals to FW would be all it would take.

 Azreal13 wrote:
He's not a store owner, he's an employee, and the truly stupid thing here is that the discussion exists at all.

Too true

Sad that these guys are that scared of losing their jobs they do these kind of things.

 JamesY wrote:
@ jonolikespie giving bad service isn't the same as saying no. You can't play specialist games in the stores for the same reason that you can't play 30k. It's a reasonable trade off for a free gaming environment that you are using products that helps support the store you are in.

I'd actually expect to be able to play a specialist game in store since they are GW but more importantly I don't see any trade off involved with free use of tables. I don't see any implied obligation to support a store I use the tables of. I go to a store to play games and while I am there I am very likely to buy something because, well, I am there and the stock is there. Tables get people in the store, that is the extent of the obligation in my opinion. I do support my local stores, but that is an entirely selfish decision because I want my local store to stay around.
That's capitalism

The way fw works in my gw is you buy gw vouchers in store the pop over to nottingaham and buy fw. Its great beacuse you help the store and anoy the feth out of the guys in notting ham when you pay for your titan in a hunderd vouchers.

I just updated the title to reflect that this is the case in a singular store... it may be the case in some others, but it certainly isn't a policy of GW in general as far as I can tell (these things can very dramatically from store to store, but this is the first I'd heard of this kind of restriction occurring).

It's just dumb to bann FW stuff from your store - i know it's not easy to be a GW red/blackshirt, as you need your sales, but that's not the right way ...

 Azreal13 wrote:
He's not a store owner, he's an employee, and the truly stupid thing here is that the discussion exists at all.

And, further, an employee of the same company that makes the materials that he is banning.

The Auld Grump

 e.earnshaw wrote:
The way fw works in my gw is you buy gw vouchers in store the pop over to nottingaham and buy fw. Its great beacuse you help the store and anoy the feth out of the guys in notting ham when you pay for your titan in a hunderd vouchers.

Haha we used to do that, until we sent a guy up there with about a grands worth of vouchers, and head office called the manager to have a go. Worst part was a guy was about to buy a thunderhawk from Nottingham, and went in to get the vouchers the day after the manager got a bollocking, so instead of going to warhammer world, he spent the money on models from the store




Also I can't help but wonder if people's opinions on this are different, as a result of the parent company being called Games Workshop. If the parent was called GW, but the store was called Warhammer, for example, would that change some of the arguments in favour of forgeworld being played in store?

 Talys wrote:
What are you talking about?

Right backatcha!

 Talys wrote:
They're among the most expensive models that one can buy, most vehicles are difficult kits with dubious instructions, and you have to buy many models separately for chassis/weapons/supporting weapon configurations (meaning you can't buy the kit, and then choose; you have to choose and buy the parts separately). Even basic infantry often require you to buy multiple, expensive kits. The models themselves, while intricate and detailed, are resin and not easy to work with. They take 3x longer to clean up and prep as compared to GW plastics. The books (rules) are extremely expensive by most standards. You can't buy the products anywhere but online and in person at Nottingham. An army will easily take many times the cost of a 40k army, perhaps even 10x the cost of a WMH army. And the armies are very difficult to transport if you have any of the larger titans.

And what has any of this got to do with people using FW models in a GW store?

 Talys wrote:
So like I said: before someone who gets into Forge World games (and I don't mean 1 pack of shoulder pads or 1 sicaran tank...), they know what they are getting into. You get into 30k armies because you think their models are super-duper, or because you specifically want to play 30k. In either case, there's no way someone goes and blows thousands of dollars for just a couple of carrying cases of models without knowing what it is they're getting themselves into. "Who am I playing with?" and "Where are we going to play?" are two key questions to be answered before such an investment, because 30k players don't exactly fall off of tries.

What's this got to do with 30K now? FW make more than just HH stuff. And again, what has any of this got to do with using FW models in a GW store?

You seem to be under the (utterly false) perception that buying more fiddly FW models means that the people buying them are somehow taking a big risk by 'getting into' FW, and that they should know beforehand that by starting down this dark FW path that it will forever dominate their in-store playing destiny. Consume them it will!

Bollocks!

They're just miniatures, and the idiotic idea that people buying them should somehow 'prepare' for how they're going to use them is just daffy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You seem to be under the (utterly false) perception that buying more fiddly FW models means that the people buying them are somehow taking a big risk by 'getting into' FW, and that they should know beforehand that by starting down this dark FW path that it will forever dominate their in-store playing destiny. Consume them it will!

I think that most people who play 30k either have friends highly invested in 30k, or for the reasons that I listed (prices, difficulty of models, availability, etc.) they started with some other GW game like 40k. For these people, there should be an understanding of the relationship between GW and FW. And before you buy into a few thousand bucks of models and books, it would certainly be to your advantage to verify where and with whom you will play. Maybe in your neck of the woods, it's easy to find a 30k pickup game; it sure is not here.

It's really not that complicated

By the way, I don't think it's a "big risk" getting into FW. But it IS a big outlay of cash. And modelling wise, it is NOT easy (not if you want anything remotely resembling a functional, average-size 30k army). Where 40k and AoS give you nice diagrams of CAD-rendered diagrams that Ikea would be proud of, FW gives you photocopies and parts lists that amount to, "go look on the website and make these parts look like that!". I said that it's for more informed, more experienced and advanced gamers. Or ones that are guided there by friends who are already well entrenched in it, in which case, they'll get the low down from them. Age of Sigmar starter set, 30k is not.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:

It is entirely unreasonable to say these people should have seen this coming. And given how few (if any besides this one) mangers actually do have a problem with FW there would never even be a reson to suspect this might happen. Seriously, is this normal in Canada, because it sure as hell ain't in Australia.

Honestly, I have no idea. I only know like, three people here who collect 30k in sufficient models to field an army and I have never known anyone who wanted to play it in a GW store. It just doesn't come up. But like I said, the experience would suck anyways. The tables are too small for armies with Revenant Titans and Reavers and all the wonderful gigantic stuff that begs for a table bigger than 6x4. At the GW stores here, the tables can't be combined, either (they're heavy, solid, and lipped).

I mean, yeah, I get your point: one day, you can play there, the next day, you can't, and that sucks. I think it also depends on what the first manager said when asked. There are a whole host of possible answers to, "Can we play 30k at GW stores?" that range from, "Yes!" to, "It's kind of a grey area, but go ahead."

When I got my Deimos Predator it had an easy to follow instruction guide. Besides, it's not like most Forge World products are hard to assemble.

 JamesY wrote:
@ heartsrenegade you are missing my point, not the other way around. When customers don't get what they want, saying that they will tell everyone they know how crap you are, and how they are going to tell everyone they know not to shop with you is a face saving statement to try and reclaim a false sense of power.

So how many products out there have tarnished reputations because of bad customer feedback? Currently I'm employed as an in-house graphic designer for a company who maanges social media content of various products, and negative backlash affects sales a lot.

It might not make the store close, but it WILL affect sales.

And honestly, how hard is it to spell heartserenade? You're British and you've spelled my name wrong every dang time. Serenade is an English word.

So no, I don't have an intimate knowledge of auldgrumps mates and how dearly they uphold each others principles

Thank you. That is what I asked.

Kanluwen wrote:There is no corporate policy that someone coming in with a FW store has to be allowed to play with it in their shop. Managers are, from what has been said here, allowed to make a judgement call.

Question: Are FW armies usually allowed in most GW stores? Yes or no.

 heartserenade wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There is no corporate policy that someone coming in with a FW store has to be allowed to play with it in their shop. Managers are, from what has been said here, allowed to make a judgement call.

Question: Are FW armies usually allowed in most GW stores? Yes or no.

Maybe?

Unless you have intimate knowledge to the contrary, as far as I am aware it simply comes down to "Does the manager allow it or not?".

 Talys wrote:
We all know that Burger King bought Tim Hortons, right?

I remember when Wendys bought Tim's. Sad that they're now under BK, but I went the better part of a decade having to subsist on Krispy Kreme instead of Timbits.

Anyhow, my local GW store has a terminal to web order stuff ship to store, and they used to sell FW stuff that they had bulk shipped to the store. I bought a FW model from my local GW store. Now, if they told me I couldn't play it there, I'd be kinda pissed about that. Same if they banned me from using the various (now OOP) metal models I had special ordered into the store.

But then, I don't play at the GW store, and I don't really buy GW stuff, so it doesn't really matter.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There is no corporate policy that someone coming in with a FW store has to be allowed to play with it in their shop. Managers are, from what has been said here, allowed to make a judgement call.

Question: Are FW armies usually allowed in most GW stores? Yes or no.

Maybe?

Unless you have intimate knowledge to the contrary, as far as I am aware it simply comes down to "Does the manager allow it or not?".

Isn't the presence of this thread an indication that this is something rare? If this is common occurence, we wouldn't be discussing it.

But I guess avoiding the answer makes it look better for you.

 Talys wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You seem to be under the (utterly false) perception that buying more fiddly FW models means that the people buying them are somehow taking a big risk by 'getting into' FW, and that they should know beforehand that by starting down this dark FW path that it will forever dominate their in-store playing destiny. Consume them it will!

I think that most people who play 30k either have friends highly invested in 30k, or for the reasons that I listed (prices, difficulty of models, availability, etc.) they started with some other GW game like 40k. For these people, there should be an understanding of the relationship between GW and FW. And before you buy into a few thousand bucks of models and books, it would certainly be to your advantage to verify where and with whom you will play. Maybe in your neck of the woods, it's easy to find a 30k pickup game; it sure is not here.

It's really not that complicated

By the way, I don't think it's a "big risk" getting into FW. But it IS a big outlay of cash. And modelling wise, it is NOT easy (not if you want anything remotely resembling a functional, average-size 30k army). Where 40k and AoS give you nice diagrams of CAD-rendered diagrams that Ikea would be proud of, FW gives you photocopies and parts lists that amount to, "go look on the website and make these parts look like that!". I said that it's for more informed, more experienced and advanced gamers. Or ones that are guided there by friends who are already well entrenched in it, in which case, they'll get the low down from them. Age of Sigmar starter set, 30k is not.

You're not even having the same conversation as the rest of us are you?

 heartserenade wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There is no corporate policy that someone coming in with a FW store has to be allowed to play with it in their shop. Managers are, from what has been said here, allowed to make a judgement call.

Question: Are FW armies usually allowed in most GW stores? Yes or no.

Maybe?

Unless you have intimate knowledge to the contrary, as far as I am aware it simply comes down to "Does the manager allow it or not?".

Isn't the presence of this thread an indication that this is something rare? If this is common occurence, we wouldn't be discussing it.

But I guess avoiding the answer makes it look better for you.

No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

I'm probably talking out of my ass when I say this but maybe part of the reason stores ban Forge World is so that they aren't advertising products they can't sell. People playing games in a store are basically doing advertising to anyone who is coming in to browse. What if someone comes in, sees a Sicarian and really likes? He can't get it from the store so he goes online to buy it potentially costing the store sales it would've otherwise had. He may have bought a Predator otherwise, for example, but liked what the Sicarian did better.

This may not be a problem for the company as a whole but for the manager who's job depends on how much plastic crack he can shift it does matter where the sales come from. People playing with stuff bought from other source isn't a big deal since they are advertising product that the manager can sell right there and right then.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Talys wrote:
We all know that Burger King bought Tim Hortons, right?

I remember when Wendys bought Tim's. Sad that they're now under BK, but I went the better part of a decade having to subsist on Krispy Kreme instead of Timbits.

So...that really isn't you in your avatar pic, is it?

Maybe the GW Store Manager doesn't know that FW is realyl just another part of...GW?

Noir wrote:


No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

I think this is an extremely uncommon thing, though - I had never heard of a GW store doing that.

The majority of tournies allow FW now and that sets the tone for casual play here much more than what a single GW store manager decided to implement for in-store gaming. This is more like a store that charges for playing there, and that usually doesn't help in the long run - the same is likely true here, imo.

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Profit still goes to HQ and gets reallocated anyhow so IDK why they're complainong.

Well, the store manager would be complaining because the sale goes to Forgeworld rather than to the store...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:
I realy dislike how some people insist "30k" is a separate game from "40k" that can't cross over. That's like saying Warmachine and Hoards should never be played together..

Sure. Well, aside from the fact that Warmachine and Hordes were specifically designed to work together, while 30K was designed as a separate (but similar) game.

 heartserenade wrote:

Noir wrote:


No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

If I never walked into a GW since FW was a thing because LGS are better, it would be hard to answer, wouldn't you think. But, as there has not been a bunch of people coming in to say one way or the other we can't know. As you pointed out without intiment knowledge none of us can know. And no the small amount in this thread can't prove one way or the other.

So answer your own question how many have you beento that do.

 heartserenade wrote:

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

How many different GW stores do you think people go to? I'm not really sure what answer you're expecting.

From online discussion over the years (I've only been into a handful of actual GW stores in the last 20-ish years, and only ever played a single game in one... in 1995), the various policies on gaming in GW stores have varied wildly over the years, with differences from store to store and from country to country. Some allow free gaming, some only allow demo games. Some allow unpainted models, some don't. Some allow third-party conversions or models, some don't. Some allow Forgeworld, some don't.

So to answer your first question, yes, at the very least the banning of Forgeworld shouldn't be any more unexpected than any other policy that a store manager chooses to put in place.


Whether or not it's a good policy ultimately comes down to what effect it has on sales... and only the store in question is going to be able to tell you that.

 Azreal13 wrote:
You're not even having the same conversation as the rest of us are you?

Well he's exhausted from all that energy he uses moving goal posts, so we can forgive him the occasional oxygen-deprived moment of nonsense.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

You are applying GW's own short sighted business mentality to this.

Just because a customer doesn't want to buy or play non-FW today, doesn't mean that he won't in the future. He is still a potential customer.
You talk about these hypothetical new guys coming in and spending money, but it is existing customers that make a business both reliable and profitable.
Short term vs long term planning, you got to keep the customer base happy.

Pushing potential customers away from a store, because they bought one of your products at another branch, is bad business. Plain and simple.
If you let people come and play in the store, they are more likely to buy things than if they didn't.

Ummm, can I just say how ridiculous it is for you to be incredulous about people applying GW logic to a GW decision in a GW store? That's like saying "your honour, sure this is an American defendant in an American court on trial for a crime committed in America, but who the feth are you to insist we follow U.S. law?!"

Bottom line, I don't agree with a lot of GW's business decisions or their continued forced segregation of mainstream and FW stuff. Just because it's a silly decision though, doesn't mean it isn't the one they've made and it doesn't mean that a shop manager can flout the rules because he doesn't want to be mean. GW proudly do NO market research, meaning that there is NO data accurately depicting how many customers are gamers, or how many of those gamers only play 40K, or how many of them own FW stuff as well, or how many use a GW shop as their main location for games.

Having said all that, I don't own any FW stuff. If I could more easily get/ order it at a GW shop then I almost certainly would own several kits.

 heartserenade wrote:

Noir wrote:


No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

Personal experience?
The first manager at my local GW had a "no Forge World, period" policy.
The second manager didn't care, and the current manager asks that people do not bring in full armies of nothing but FW models and does not object to their rules being used, but if you want to do so you have to bring the book with you.

Armies where you have conversion kits, shoulderpads, etc from FW? Perfectly fine as well.
OOP models from GW? Fine and dandy!

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

It's not really deflection to point out that different stores have wildly different policies.
We go through this whole nonsense every time that somebody's local GW has some kind of change to their allowances whether it's a new manager or an old manager going powerhungry.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:

Noir wrote:


No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

Personal experience?
The first manager at my local GW had a "no Forge World, period" policy.
The second manager didn't care, and the current manager asks that people do not bring in full armies of nothing but FW models and does not object to their rules being used, but if you want to do so you have to bring the book with you.

Armies where you have conversion kits, shoulderpads, etc from FW? Perfectly fine as well.
OOP models from GW? Fine and dandy!

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

It's not really deflection to point out that different stores have wildly different policies.
We go through this whole nonsense every time that somebody's local GW has some kind of change to their allowances whether it's a new manager or an old manager going powerhungry.

And in 7 pages of this discussion this appears to be the second GW store mentioned that has this policy, kinda telling ain't it?

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:

Noir wrote:


No it means the OP had not had this happen at the GW he goes to. Nothing else about how rear it is has been established.

And maybe is a answer as we don't know one why or the other it is the only real answer possible. You deflection was a nice try, even if it failed.

Base it on your personal experience, then. Is banning FW products in a GW store something to be expected? On all the stores you've been to, how many bans FW?

Personal experience?
The first manager at my local GW had a "no Forge World, period" policy.
The second manager didn't care, and the current manager asks that people do not bring in full armies of nothing but FW models and does not object to their rules being used, but if you want to do so you have to bring the book with you.

Armies where you have conversion kits, shoulderpads, etc from FW? Perfectly fine as well.
OOP models from GW? Fine and dandy!

I really like it that you guys don't want to answer that question directly. Who's deflecting now?

It's not really deflection to point out that different stores have wildly different policies.
We go through this whole nonsense every time that somebody's local GW has some kind of change to their allowances whether it's a new manager or an old manager going powerhungry.

And in 7 pages of this discussion this appears to be the second GW store mentioned that has this policy, kinda telling ain't it?

Not really as this a thread about why would a store ban FW. You only turned it into a how many store ban FW this page. So far there is only 1way to view the answer, ie. we don't know because we lack the need information. Unless of course you try really hard to see it one way or the other.