Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Cover is a part of the game. I call shenanigans if it is made redundant.

BAN ALL FLAMERS.

 Traditio wrote:
If you so much as smile when you contemplate running it, re-think it, and chances are, you should pick something else.

Ah yes, the classic "40K IS NOT MEANT TO BE FUN. IF YOU ENJOY BUILDING YOUR ARMY YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. MISERY FOR ALL" argument. Thank god most of us don't actually play the game that way.

Build something that actually looks like an army. No fewer than 50 models at 1850 points. And no "auto-takes."

IOW "build something that looks like Traditio's army". My IG armored company has way less than 50 models at 1850 points, and yet it looks exactly like a fluffy army should.

No superheavies.

Ah yes, because that Malcador is just too terrifying to face. Do we have to repeat the entire conversation we had about how blanket bans on LoW are bad, or can we just skip to the conclusion where you admit that you were wrong?

Yes. Don't run him. Run something else that doesn't involve shenanigans.

Well, you're certainly demonstrating your ignorance of the Tau here. Aun'va is a bad unit, if you're calling it such "shenanigans" that you should be banned from taking him then you really don't understand how the game works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traditio wrote:
Not a single one.

Get 50-100 dudes. Give them guns. Call it a day.

Thank god the rest of us don't play your boring as hell stripped-down version of 40k where everyone lines up a bunch of tactical marines and rolls dice until one side is defeated.

Wait, did you GENUINELY just call Aun'Va OP? I'm actually speechless.

Your moaning about Kantor is not warranted. ID is part of the game. Nearly EVER Space Marine character can be Insta-killed. Sicarius. Tigurius. Hell, I could make one more expensive than Kantor, and would still die like that.
Chapter Master with Thunder Hammer, Armour Indomitus, power fist, digital weapons. More expensive, but he'll die just as easily.
This is universal of most special characters across all codices. No EW means you pay a lot of points for something that dies just as easy. Instead of moaning about Kantor, consider what IG players feel about Creed or their other characters?
RIP Special Characters.

A tervigon has free unit shenanigans, yet Youd be hard pressed to find anyone who would get mad if they fought against one. KDK are built on shenanigans, don't take them as an army?

Double post.

And we've returned to the realm of "shenanigans".
This is completely subjective - shenanigans are not universal.

Klowny wrote:
A tervigon has free unit shenanigans, yet Youd be hard pressed to find anyone who would get mad if they fought against one. KDK are built on shenanigans, don't take them as an army?

NONE!

NO SHENANIGANS!

If the ENTIRE CODEX is shenanigans, then buy another codex.

 Traditio wrote:

Klowny wrote:
A tervigon has free unit shenanigans, yet Youd be hard pressed to find anyone who would get mad if they fought against one. KDK are built on shenanigans, don't take them as an army?

NONE!

NO SHENANIGANS!

If the ENTIRE CODEX is shenanigans, then buy another codex.

Make a list of what you consider to be shenanigans, or your argument is pointless yelling.

 Peregrine wrote:

Yes. Don't run him. Run something else that doesn't involve shenanigans.

Well, you're certainly demonstrating your ignorance of the Tau here. Aun'va is a bad unit, if you're calling it such "shenanigans" that you should be banned from taking him then you really don't understand how the game works.

Aun'va isn't bad, per se, but he's certainly not good and absolutely not good for his stupid shield. His "invoke all the things that can't be denied" is what makes him decent, as is his ld bubble.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
This is completely subjective - shenanigans are not universal.

Nah, it's entirely objective:

Shenanigans (noun): any 40k army that does not consist of a captain and a bunch of tactical squads in Rhinos, just like Traditio's army.

 Traditio wrote:

Klowny wrote:
No quantum shielding? No RP? No special wargear of any kind? No c'tan Deciever? No tervigons? No GK turn 1 deep strike? No flyrants? No lukky stik? No psychic powers that can move terrain/make av15 land raiders?

Not a single one.

Get 50-100 dudes. Give them guns. Put them in the tanks of your choice. And call it a day.

Because absolutely nothing can be fun or unique in any way, and shame on you if you want to play anything but Guard on Guard mirror matches all day. Quit your bitching.

So don't play necrons, any psychic army, any army with special rules, tyranids, orks, KDK space marines of any kind, imperial guard, eldar, dark eldar, tau, CSM, demons, AdMech or any W40K army at all?

Ne_Streets wrote:Aun'va isn't bad, per se, but he's certainly not good and absolutely not good for his stupid shield. His "invoke all the things that can't be denied" is what makes him decent, as is his ld bubble.

Given LOS shenanigans? I can absolutely see Aun'va being a complete pain in the bung hole. AP 4 or worse? Ok. 3+ save.

Oh dear, AP 1 or 2? LOS! Ok. Aun'va takes that. 2+ invuln.

I can imagine all kinds of shenanigans being used here.

Cheers for completely derailing this thread BTW dude. I hope you had a fun time

Guys can we stop feeding the troll now?

Chapter tactics are free silly bs that grants undeserved stuff to an army.

Psychic powers are unpredictable af, and while some ore okay, others are op af. So none of those as you can't ensure that you don't bring op powers.

Flyers can only be effectivley countered with one class of weapon, and Lascannons, Plasmacannons and Powerfists are hard-pressed or unable to kill them. No flyers or FMC's or FGMC's.

I honestly can't tell if he's being serious anymore.

He probably is. This tallies with previous posts.

Also: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/697130.page

 Traditio wrote:
I can imagine all kinds of shenanigans being used here.

So what? Who cares if Aun'va is a little harder to kill than some infantry units? Do you actually have a balance argument against this, or just crippling anxiety about the thought of your opponent doing something more than rolling an armor save just like your tactical marines, no matter how weak or strong the ability actually is?

(You are aware that Aun'va is not an IC, right? And therefore can't join any unit besides his melee bodyguards?)

 Selym wrote:
Chapter tactics are free silly bs that grants undeserved stuff to an army.

Psychic powers are unpredictable af, and while some ore okay, others are op af. So none of those as you can't ensure that you don't bring op powers.

Flyers can only be effectivley countered with one class of weapon, and Lascannons, Plasmacannons and Powerfists are hard-pressed or unable to kill them. No flyers or FMC's or FGMC's.

With the exception of chapter tactics (they're not really free; 14 ppm and all), I think you fully understand my intent!

The exception to this being psychic powers: if you pick the non-OP primaris powers, it's all good in my book.

Let's get WWI up in this bazizzle.

 Traditio wrote:

Ne_Streets wrote:Aun'va isn't bad, per se, but he's certainly not good and absolutely not good for his stupid shield. His "invoke all the things that can't be denied" is what makes him decent, as is his ld bubble.

Given LOS shenanigans? I can absolutely see Aun'va being a complete pain in the bung hole. AP 4 or worse? Ok. 3+ save.

Oh dear, AP 1 or 2? LOS! Ok. Aun'va takes that. 2+ invuln.

I can imagine all kinds of shenanigans being used here.

What is the point of that? Why would you shoot that unit if you were competent in any way? It poses no threat to you.

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Chapter tactics are free silly bs that grants undeserved stuff to an army.

Psychic powers are unpredictable af, and while some ore okay, others are op af. So none of those as you can't ensure that you don't bring op powers.

Flyers can only be effectivley countered with one class of weapon, and Lascannons, Plasmacannons and Powerfists are hard-pressed or unable to kill them. No flyers or FMC's or FGMC's.

With the exception of chapter tactics (they're not really free; 14 ppm and all), I think you fully understand my intent!

The exception to this being psychic powers: if you pick the non-OP primaris powers, it's all good in my book.

Let's get WWI up in this bazizzle.

This is not WWI. If you want a game with 50 dudes with guns in tanks, play Bolt Action.

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Chapter tactics are free silly bs that grants undeserved stuff to an army.

Psychic powers are unpredictable af, and while some ore okay, others are op af. So none of those as you can't ensure that you don't bring op powers.

Flyers can only be effectivley countered with one class of weapon, and Lascannons, Plasmacannons and Powerfists are hard-pressed or unable to kill them. No flyers or FMC's or FGMC's.

With the exception of chapter tactics (they're not really free; 14 ppm and all), I think you fully understand my intent!

The exception to this being psychic powers: if you pick the non-OP primaris powers, it's all good in my book.

Let's get WWI up in this bazizzle.

Lemme guess, you also think that IG and CSm shouldn't have a CT equivalent?

Due to having different prices?

And, your restrictions are silly. If both players agree on the lists, or if they both want to be competitive, or if they have ready counters tothe opposing units in their codex, there really shouldn't be an issue.

 Verviedi wrote:
What is the point of that? Why would you shoot that unit if you were competent in any way? It poses no threat to you.

Clearly the thought of Tau killing his poor tactical squads with swords is just so utterly terrifying that he has to throw every AP 2 shot at Aun'va, regardless of how effective it is. And you know that his lascannons and power fists have to be able to kill everything, so you for taking shenanigans and keeping Aun'va alive.

shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans...

I don't think there is much point shouting over the internet about what exactly causes such huge imbalances across the codices; this whole "shenanigans" crap is such a subjective and pointless waste of breath.

The game is unbalanced 100% - there isn't much you can do about it other than leaving and finding something else that will be fun for you. That's what I did, and now I see why; people argue about this day in, day out. But it's like a microwave - all very heated but only going round in circles.

What you shouldn't do is tell other people how to play the game. It's everyone's individual decision, to play the game or not and what to run in their lists (if it's legal). Saying ridiculous things like "Get 50-100 dudes. Give them guns. Put them in the tanks of your choice. And call it a day." is just a demeaning argument that isn't really an argument at all.

I wasn't happy about leaving 40K because I used to love playing it, but I took my bags and left for the better of everyone; I no longer got frustrated at unbalanced games and people stopped hearing me whine about it. I'd recommend you do the same if you feel so passionately about it.

G.A

Selym wrote:Lemme guess, you also think that IG and CSm shouldn't have a CT equivalent?

Review my posting history. You'll find me claiming, for the longest time, that CSM should cost 14 ppm and have chapter tactics.

I fail to see why a 5 ppm guardsmen should have them, especially given the fact that they already have orders.

 Verviedi wrote:
This is not WWI. If you want a game with 50 dudes with guns in tanks, play Bolt Action.

Exactly. I play 40k for the tanks, aircraft, etc. If I wanted giant blocks of basic infantry marching towards each other I'd play WHFB.

The incompetence of one individual should not result in changes that reward his incompetence. The idea that lascannons and power fists must kill everything in the game is completely idiotic. That hasn't been the case since 5th edition.
Peregrine is correct on all fronts. You are about as in touch with the state of the game as the GW design team, and as long as you hold on to your outdated ideas you will continue to fail in all endeavors.

 Traditio wrote:

Selym wrote:Lemme guess, you also think that IG and CSm shouldn't have a CT equivalent?

Review my posting history. You'll find me claiming, for the longest time, that CSM should cost 14 ppm and have chapter tactics.

I fail to see why a 5 ppm guardsmen should have them, especially given the fact that they already have orders.

Perhaps because, point for point, they are worse than anything in the following codexes:

CSM, C:SM, SW, Eldar, Tau

Traditio, in the least offensive way I can say this, I do not think 40k in it's current state suits you well.

If you can find someone willing to play you by all those arbitrary and frankly misguided and ignorant rules you set up, good for you.

Is this thread salvageable any more?

Not even slightly.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:


Is this thread salvageable any more?

No, not really. But then again, this is typical of a 40k "discussion" thread of this manner

Can this be locked? It was derailed a long time ago