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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Melta is no better for them.

I was referring to how Sallies match up better vs other marines.

I want smash capt dead and buried. It's a dumb concept and a dumb crutch. Yet, I'm probably still paying my 19 pt tax.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/14 14:10:47


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Orodhen wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.


You have impossibly high standards if you think free re-rolls on every unit and turning -1 AP into 0 AP is bad. Their supplement isn't even out anyways.

The free rerolls didn't make them good in the first place. Gaining a durability rule worse than Iron Hands and Raven Guard helps them how?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

This guy gets it. You don't need to defend bad rules.


It's actually not a bad army trait by itself. Reolling a single hit/wound in MSU is usually all you need rather than a buff character close by which wants you to castle thus losing some board control. Saying it was bad before is fairly disingenuous because marines were just plain bad, pretty much all of them. You didn't see Ravenguard destroying people on a regular basis, even though it's supposed to be the best trait (as people claim for the Eldar).

Shrugging -1 damage rolls is excellent and will be extremely useful vs the marine lists that will be out there now. A good player will make Salamanders do work and we have yet to se
e what their specific supplement will provide.

You forget a few things though:
1. The best weapons are a high RoF
2. That little density of weapons you wanna reroll in MSU with means you're still lacking density of weapons
3. Having the trait before wasn't good and it wasn't used competitively whatsoever
So nothing there actually changed. The new codex made the army less reliant on camping with an HQ, sure, but it still affects ALL models, and to get the most out of Marines you'll still need to use HQs with your most fighty and shooty units.

So the best unit with Salamanders was a 2 Lascannon Dev squad and that's still not different. Nothing changed because Raven Guard really have the same level of durability, Iron Hands got TWO extra bonuses, Imperial Fists still change how the opponent deploys, and White Scars/Black Templars can get a T1 charge

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Orodhen wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.


You have impossibly high standards if you think free re-rolls on every unit and turning -1 AP into 0 AP is bad. Their supplement isn't even out anyways.

The free rerolls didn't make them good in the first place. Gaining a durability rule worse than Iron Hands and Raven Guard helps them how?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

This guy gets it. You don't need to defend bad rules.


It's actually not a bad army trait by itself. Reolling a single hit/wound in MSU is usually all you need rather than a buff character close by which wants you to castle thus losing some board control. Saying it was bad before is fairly disingenuous because marines were just plain bad, pretty much all of them. You didn't see Ravenguard destroying people on a regular basis, even though it's supposed to be the best trait (as people claim for the Eldar).

Shrugging -1 damage rolls is excellent and will be extremely useful vs the marine lists that will be out there now. A good player will make Salamanders do work and we have yet to se
e what their specific supplement will provide.

You forget a few things though:
1. The best weapons are a high RoF
2. That little density of weapons you wanna reroll in MSU with means you're still lacking density of weapons
3. Having the trait before wasn't good and it wasn't used competitively whatsoever
So nothing there actually changed. The new codex made the army less reliant on camping with an HQ, sure, but it still affects ALL models, and to get the most out of Marines you'll still need to use HQs with your most fighty and shooty units.

So the best unit with Salamanders was a 2 Lascannon Dev squad and that's still not different. Nothing changed because Raven Guard really have the same level of durability, Iron Hands got TWO extra bonuses, Imperial Fists still change how the opponent deploys, and White Scars/Black Templars can get a T1 charge

It is an okay trait for vehicals. Pretty worthless on infantry except for their 1 heavy. Ignore -1 is decent but it sure aint no 6+++.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

So, have they mentioned anything about the rules for the Dreadclaw or Kharybdis pods
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 chimeara wrote:
So, have they mentioned anything about the rules for the Dreadclaw or Kharybdis pods


Forge World models? Updated in line with the Codex? What do you think?

Victoria est autem vita.

Stories at https://knightofthegrey.wordpress.com/
Game-related musings at https://thescenicdetour.wordpress.com/
Both updated irregularly 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 chimeara wrote:
So, have they mentioned anything about the rules for the Dreadclaw or Kharybdis pods
You are gonna have to wait for the errata 2 weeks after the codex release. My guess will be (and this is a total coin flip) FW will not get access to doctrines. The drop pods likely will get the drop pod rules.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fr
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor





France

 bullyboy wrote:
 godardc wrote:
You shouldn't be allowed to play a different chapter than the one you painted your models as.
That's the great advantage of 30k over 40k: no "your dudes" stupidity and only a few legions to choose from and I don't think I have ever seen someone playing with someone else rules.

And this is from someone playing a successor chapter (but as they are Ultramarine successors, I have never played with anything else than the UM tactics even if others would be better).

About the "ignore -1ap" part of the Salamader CT, what has -1ap ? Bolters (now) and one dynasty of necrons ? What else ?


Autocannons of all types (Armiger, regular, Pred, etc)
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Flamer
Haywire
Multiple melee weapons

no clue about Tau/orks/Nids, don't have their books (although I think Heavy Burst Cannon is, right?).

Granted, it's not exhaustive (I may have been biased as it seems the armies I do play have lots of -1, lol)


Yeah indeed I forgot about the melee weapons !
It's quite a few indeed, but I still have to meet a flamer or heavy flamer on a battlefield of the 8th ed
what's sad is now primaris got an additional -1 ap thanks to the tactical doctrine, so it's a bit less efficient.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






It's marines that really spam the ap -1. Tau has a fair amount to. It's AP 2/3 that really kills marines though and it is everywhere en mass. It should really be -1 ap to a minimum of 1.

So ap-1 stays ap -1. Ap-2 becomes ap-1 and ap 3 becomes ap-2 ect.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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