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Made in gb
Sinister Chaos Marine




Iracundus wrote:
Well now more info on the TS and there is the Cabbalistic Focus that makes a power undeniable. However that would only work for 1 power and it would drop off if Sorcerors get killed off.

I just read it and almost swore as I was concerned about the way it is worded, as in 8th not all strategems/etc said the power was denied. For example the World Eaters one says "the effects of that psychic power are negated" but so far all the 9th codex wording I've seen Sisters/Necrons at least says "denied". I would have preferred some belt and bracers style language that said it cannot be denied, negated or prevented in any way, for 8 (but 9 would feel more thematic) cabal points I want to smite a Culexus Assassin!

For generating cabal points, the big question is are you limited to one Ahriman/Exalted/DP per detachment or not? The smaller question, will you be able to take two lesser Sorcerers in a single HQ slot? Alternatively they could come out of nowhere and surprise us with something that lets you take 3 CP cost free patrols Dark Eldar style so you can take multiple cults and more HQs.

The new Cult of Magic warlord trait they just revealed feels like a nerf compared to the old one.

Both of the previewed legion command traits look good though.
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Cult of magic WT nerf is good for the internal balance of the cults, right now you have very little reason NOT to pick Magic or Duplicity. I'd rather 9 cults be closer in power level to each other.

I'm also hoping that our psychic doesnt stay "20 different ways to do mortal wounds that are all inferior to smite". MW spam isnt fun to play as or against.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I really like the Cabal thing. I'm glad they remembered the number 9 as well. Far too few 7's in the DG Codex this time around.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
I'm also hoping that our psychic doesnt stay "20 different ways to do mortal wounds that are all inferior to smite". MW spam isnt fun to play as or against.
Don't be so pessimistic. This isn't Age of Sigmar!

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
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Oh man I am so excited for this. WS2/BS2 termie sorcs finally. Level 3 exalteds that matter.

Sounds like we lose Warptime and Death Hex, but get our own sort of Death Hex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really like the Cabal thing. I'm glad they remembered the number 9 as well. Far too few 7's in the DG Codex this time around.


If 8 is undeniable I am really curious what 9 might be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 13:23:38


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




EightFoldPath wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Well now more info on the TS and there is the Cabbalistic Focus that makes a power undeniable. However that would only work for 1 power and it would drop off if Sorcerors get killed off.

I just read it and almost swore as I was concerned about the way it is worded, as in 8th not all strategems/etc said the power was denied. For example the World Eaters one says "the effects of that psychic power are negated" but so far all the 9th codex wording I've seen Sisters/Necrons at least says "denied". I would have preferred some belt and bracers style language that said it cannot be denied, negated or prevented in any way, for 8 (but 9 would feel more thematic) cabal points I want to smite a Culexus Assassin!


I imagine that is loose wording, given GW's track record, unless GW is trying to deliberately draw a distinction between denying a power (i.e. it fails and does not go off at all) vs. being unaffected by its effects (but it does go off, and other models or units could be affected).
   
Made in gb
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plus it requires a full 8 points to pull off, which would be almost all most lists have. I just did a quick count on my (planned) 2k tsons list and it has a grand total of 10 points at full strength, so its not a easy trick to pull off.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 14:06:33


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
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Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

That's 10 points to use in that phase though isn't it. So basically with 10 points you get to use one ability per phase, with the ability to sustain a few casualties throughout.

It's an interesting ability and I don't think I like it.
Unless there's some cheap stuff it won't be usable shy of about 2k and even then only for the first turn or two until casualties take over.
   
Made in gb
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Bath

 kirotheavenger wrote:
That's 10 points to use in that phase though isn't it. So basically with 10 points you get to use one ability per phase, with the ability to sustain a few casualties throughout.

It's an interesting ability and I don't think I like it.
Unless there's some cheap stuff it won't be usable shy of about 2k and even then only for the first turn or two until casualties take over.


yhea, so that power could be done reliably once, then after that it would rapidly become unusable becuase i dont have enough cabal points, so i'd be doing other tricks form the set of 9, which have cabal point values form 1-9, so i'd always be able to use some of it, somehow.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
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North Carolina

Cabbalistic Focus is cool. Glad to see GW recognizes that the psychic specialists need a little something extra to stay competitive and interesting. Makes me excited to see what Eldar and hopefully Tyranids may get. I will say it's hilarious though... we're back to resource management mechanics like we had in 7th. Honestly (and I know I'm in the minority here), I liked that system way better than 8th/9th edition psychic powers. Yeah, 7th psychic phase was broken as hell, but it was broken because of some of the powers themselves, not the framework. I'd prefer that framework over the boring and dumbed down psychic phase we've had. It's nuts to me that a BOG standard Exalted Sorcerer and a Primaris Psyker have the same skill at manifesting their powers.
   
Made in gb
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Bristol (UK)

The framework of 7th psykers had huge problems as well.
Namely, taking 1-2 psykers (such as a Space Marine player might expect to do with a Librarian) was largely useless. Chances were you'd fail to roll the power(s) you wanted, and if you fought against someone like Eldar or Greyknights you could forget ever casting one anyway, since they could just bury you in dispel dice.

The resource management itself was pretty cool, and it worked well in Fantasy. The problem was the massive disparity between factions and the randomly generated powers were both core to the system though (that weren't present in Fantasy though).
   
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 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Cabbalistic Focus is cool.
I must be tired. I read that as "Cannibalistic Forest".

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Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Oh man I am so excited for this. WS2/BS2 termie sorcs finally.


This sounds so... odd...
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Cabbalistic Focus is cool. Glad to see GW recognizes that the psychic specialists need a little something extra to stay competitive and interesting. Makes me excited to see what Eldar and hopefully Tyranids may get. I will say it's hilarious though... we're back to resource management mechanics like we had in 7th. Honestly (and I know I'm in the minority here), I liked that system way better than 8th/9th edition psychic powers. Yeah, 7th psychic phase was broken as hell, but it was broken because of some of the powers themselves, not the framework. I'd prefer that framework over the boring and dumbed down psychic phase we've had. It's nuts to me that a BOG standard Exalted Sorcerer and a Primaris Psyker have the same skill at manifesting their powers.


I like the fact that they're not just going the "psychic phase but stronger" route but are actually letting us do something different with it.

I share the concern of many that its uses might be limited to one or two things per turn. That being said, I am almost 100% certain that there will be options among the other 7 that aren't as costly; allowing us to get 2-3 uses out of it each turn.
My meta isn't even that psyker-heavy so I don't need to hold onto 8 points most of my games.

How powerful the legion command upgrades are will largely depend on how many we can take I think. I'm hoping either they're all for different units or we can take multiple of each.

My main concern at this point in time are the two 'extended' psychic trees.
Right now, we have 27 powers (Dark hereticus: 6, Change: 6, Tzeentch on DPs: 6, and 9 cult powers). I am very[u] scared about the possibility that we'll have 1 tree with powers and the other tree just being the 9 cult powers.


You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness.  
   
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Bath

DaPino wrote:

I like the fact that they're not just going the "psychic phase but stronger" route but are actually letting us do something different with it.

I share the concern of many that its uses might be limited to one or two things per turn. That being said, I am almost 100% certain that there will be options among the other 7 that aren't as costly; allowing us to get 2-3 uses out of it each turn.
My meta isn't even that psyker-heavy so I don't need to hold onto 8 points most of my games.

How powerful the legion command upgrades are will largely depend on how many we can take I think. I'm hoping either they're all for different units or we can take multiple of each.

My main concern at this point in time are the two 'extended' psychic trees.
Right now, we have 27 powers (Dark hereticus: 6, Change: 6, Tzeentch on DPs: 6, and 9 cult powers). I am very[u] scared about the possibility that we'll have 1 tree with powers and the other tree just being the 9 cult powers.




I think we can be reasonably sure they wouldn't go that route, as they have already said the subfaction powers are in addition to any other powers a caster knows for both GK and TS, so we can chalk them up as being like the cult relics and a extra. it wouldnt make sense to group these together into a single tree anyway, its not like you could choose form it, as your choice is locked by your chosen Cult.

since we dont have 9 different scorcer types to upgrade, we can assume that at least some of those are available to the same unit type and thus give us a few options. I dont see why they would be limited to "One per army", but its possible.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Cabbalistic Focus is cool.
I must be tired. I read that as "Cannibalistic Forest".


Kroot Terrain confirmed!
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
That's 10 points to use in that phase though isn't it. So basically with 10 points you get to use one ability per phase, with the ability to sustain a few casualties throughout.

It's an interesting ability and I don't think I like it.
Unless there's some cheap stuff it won't be usable shy of about 2k and even then only for the first turn or two until casualties take over.

The article states that the bottom end of points cost is 3, so there are in fact cheap things to spend on.

I'm really excited for this rule, it definitely encourages you to spam out some psykers. Glad they gave us a good KSons article after yesterday's was basically just for the Grey Knights.
   
Made in us
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I like the Cabal focus. My lists I currently have drawn up will have 15 to 16 depending on if Magnus is fieldable. Even without, my list has 4 HQ psykers, a Tgor Shamon, 3 rubrics and 2 SoT. I personally believe that as long as the 3-5 points abilities are not complete garbage, I will be using 2-3 per phase even later in the game. I mean 1 Exalted and 1 rubric squad produce 4 points, and so if you don't have that on the table you probably already lost. Quite frankly outside turn 4 or 5, if you are not generating like 7 to 10 you probably did already lose the game cause your HQ assets are gone. I mean the minimum three HQ produce is 6, and if you are not bring at least 3 HQs at 2000 with TS, then you should probably revise your list. And who knows, the 9 point one might be bonkers seeing what Admec got.

I think TS are going to have to build around making the most of this advantage in the psychic phase, although I routinely brought 4+ character psyerkers and 3+ Rubric/SoT units already. There is not much more to bring in a TS army lol.

I also hope the new spell sets include a bunch of good de-buff spells. That would kind of buck the tread of the newer dexes which are mostly buff stacking (I know there are a few de-buffs out there but buffs seem to be much more common)
   
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Love the Cabal mechanic, really cool stuff.

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Just checked the GW page and the TS Start Collecting is "sold out online."

Any thoughts on what's likely to be in the Combat Patrol? So far, the MSRP value of the CPs seems to range from $206-$230.

This struck me as the likely config:

Ahriman - $40
Rubrics - $59
Exalted Sorcerers - $60
Tzaangors - $44 + Upgrades Sprues $25

Spell heavy, thematic, the sorcerers haven't been in a value box yet, and it's $229 all-in. Maybe you swap Ahriman for the Hexfire HQ, and the sorcerers for Scarabs? The prices are basically the same?

Another approach could be double Tzaangors + Rubrics + Scarabs + an HQ in an attempt to mimic the Death Guard box?

Most of the boxes have also had a centerpiece figure so I wouldn't be shocked if a Helbrute ($54) replaced one of the elite units. The Heldrake ($74) is also possible given that the similarly-priced impulsor is in some of the Marine boxes.

Any educated guesses?

   
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Australia

 flaherty wrote:
Just checked the GW page and the TS Start Collecting is "sold out online."

Any thoughts on what's likely to be in the Combat Patrol? So far, the MSRP value of the CPs seems to range from $206-$230.

This struck me as the likely config:

Ahriman - $40
Rubrics - $59
Exalted Sorcerers - $60
Tzaangors - $44 + Upgrades Sprues $25

Spell heavy, thematic, the sorcerers haven't been in a value box yet, and it's $229 all-in. Maybe you swap Ahriman for the Hexfire HQ, and the sorcerers for Scarabs? The prices are basically the same?

Another approach could be double Tzaangors + Rubrics + Scarabs + an HQ in an attempt to mimic the Death Guard box?

Most of the boxes have also had a centerpiece figure so I wouldn't be shocked if a Helbrute ($54) replaced one of the elite units. The Heldrake ($74) is also possible given that the similarly-priced impulsor is in some of the Marine boxes.

Any educated guesses?



That configuration would be significantly over c. 500 points, which is what all of the combat patrols aim to be - extremely unlikely.

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stupid question, will I be able to grab the codex by itself or is it only available as a bundle deal with this GK/TS box set?

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It is not in the box at all.
   
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 Dryaktylus wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Oh man I am so excited for this. WS2/BS2 termie sorcs finally.


This sounds so... odd...


It's a behind enemy lines unit for me. Connecting more often will help clear the stray units in his space and the extra wound will stave off snipers ( actual and otherwise ).

   
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Australia

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Dryaktylus wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Oh man I am so excited for this. WS2/BS2 termie sorcs finally.


This sounds so... odd...


It's a behind enemy lines unit for me. Connecting more often will help clear the stray units in his space and the extra wound will stave off snipers ( actual and otherwise ).


The Terminator Sorcerer won't be getting an extra wound over what he currently has. Only Rubricae & Scarab Occult will be gaining the extra wound.

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 Marshal Loss wrote:
Love the Cabal mechanic, really cool stuff.

If everybody ''loves'' some mechanism in 40k, something will definitely go wrong.
Its disturbing if you ask me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 08:42:49


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It's another layer of rules, even assuming it's all lovely and balanced, that's a problem.
But it's also par for the course for 40k right now.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Seems simple enough. Cabal is gonna be their "mono-trait"? As those go, simple resource you gain each turn and spend to buff up singular spells, it seems a lot more straightforward and (in theory) easier to balance than, say, all the AdMech stuff or even Marine Doctrines, which layer over a bunch of units, profiles, etc.. .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 09:52:56


 
   
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This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

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