6th edition rumour and news summary (1st post updated daily with new info!)

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**Therion**

Forgive me if I don't mourn quite as loudly as you

Forgive me if we weren't debating the fact whether vehicles were overpowered in 5th or not. Some people haven't even understood how things have changed and how drastically easier they are to kill now. You asked me to point out a non-Necron example and I did and your only response is "Yeah that makes sense! They should die faster!" which is totally irrelevant.

I also agree that it's a good thing they die faster. Krak missiles now do similar damage to AV12 vehicles as they do to Tyranid monsters, instead of the Trygon getting blown out of his socks while the 50 point Chimera just gets some shakes and stuns and other superficial damage. However don't mistake this system to be anywhere close to perfect. Some weapons are very effective against vehicles, and some vehicles simply don't have enough hull points for their price tag considering how easy it is to remove them.

**Drunkspleen**

edit: I Think my rumour addled brain made up a rule, seems the situation has been resolved.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Therion wrote:
Forgive me if I don't mourn quite as loudly as you

Forgive me if we weren't debating the fact whether vehicles were overpowered in 5th or not. Some people haven't even understood how things have changed and how drastically easier they are to kill now. You asked me to point out a non-Necron example and I did and your only response is "Yeah that makes sense! They should die faster!" which is totally irrelevant.

I also agree that it's a good thing they die faster. Krak missiles now do similar damage to AV12 vehicles as they do to Tyranid monsters, instead of the Trygon getting blown out of his socks while the 50 point Chimera just gets some shakes and stuns and other superficial damage.

No my response was, "yeah that makes sense, just because they die faster than they used to does not make them useless trash that isn't worth taking because it will die too easily".

Your premise that GW has left vehicles paper thin just seems preposterous, they are more fragile but still sturdy enough to serve a role in the game.

**tedurur**

Joey wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Joey wrote:
My mech guard will outshoot necrons easily, no matter how easy it is to remove hull points (btw a full unit of necrons rapid firing will only do 2.2 hull points, not enough to kill a chimera).

It's 4.4 actually.
6.6 if they have a Phaeron.

20 shots, divided by 2/3 is 12.2, divided by 6 is 2.2.
Or do necrons get 4 shots each when they rapid fire?

No, but a full squad is 20 warriors, not 10...

**H.B.M.C.**

If they're more fragile then their points need to reflect this change. If it suddenly becomes half as hard to kill a Land Raider, then it's not worth the points you pay for it.

**Therion**

just because they die faster than they used to does not make them useless trash that isn't worth taking because it will die too easily".

I think it's because I live in the same world where Tyranid monsters were useless overpriced trash in comparison to vehicles. That's the competitive world. Many vehicles now belong to that same category. Fight and rage against this metagame shift all you want. A year from now the masses have finally moved and the army lists out there don't look anything like they did in 5th. Those who want to be ahead of the curve are as we speak building new armies.

**Joey**

tedurur wrote:
Joey wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Joey wrote:
My mech guard will outshoot necrons easily, no matter how easy it is to remove hull points (btw a full unit of necrons rapid firing will only do 2.2 hull points, not enough to kill a chimera).

It's 4.4 actually.
6.6 if they have a Phaeron.

20 shots, divided by 2/3 is 12.2, divided by 6 is 2.2.
Or do necrons get 4 shots each when they rapid fire?

No, but a full squad is 20 warriors, not 10...

Fair enough, I didn't know that.
Still if a necron player has a few squads of them on the field, the guard will blow them to smithereens before they get in range to glance the guard's vehicles to death.

**RegulusBlack**

Necrons are starting to look like the FotM codex.

Awesome fliers, check
Awesome AT, check
Awesome resilience, check
Awesome models, check

plus i can pair up with IG or BA for some super awesome sauceness

when are they redoing the IG codex cause, i really cant wait.......
(Rant Over)

**puree**

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Ohh, does that make Tau suits nice?, 3 plasma rifles shots at range 24, twin linked even (ok that might be a bit expensive still).

**Therion**

Necrons are starting to look like the FotM codex...when are they redoing the IG codex...

They're up there but IG is brilliant too, possibly even better. The officer of the fleet really screws up with enemy flyers, and the IG can take 9 Vendettas (translation: as many as the points limit realistically allows) of their own if they want. The Necrons need to ally with IG to get an officer of the fleet of their own

The IG on the other hand ally with Necrons to get a couple Solar Pulses...

**Grot 6**

So bottom line, for thoe of you who've seen the new book...

Is the game worth staying with? OR is it past the point of no return?

How do you like the new changes?

**Joey**

Therion wrote:
Necrons are starting to look like the FotM codex...when are they redoing the IG codex...

They're up there but IG is brilliant too, possibly even better. The officer of the fleet really screws up with enemy flyers, and the IG can take 9 Vendettas (translation: as many as the points limit realistically allows) of their own if they want. The Necrons need to ally with IG to get an officer of the fleet of their own

Begrudging allies (or whatever it's called) means army wide things like that don't get passed on, so 'crons wouldn't benefit from MOTF/Astropath.
All Imperial armies, however, would.

**H.B.M.C.**

Grot 6 wrote:Is the game worth staying with? OR is it past the point of no return?

How do you like the new changes?

Well I've pre-ordered it, if that tells you anything.

**Therion**

Begrudging allies (or whatever it's called) means army wide things like that don't get passed on, so 'crons wouldn't benefit from MOTF. All Imperial armies, however, would.

Officer of the Fleet doesn't affect the Necron/IG army, and neither does Solar Pulse. They affect the enemy army.

**Falleen9**

I'm terrified at the new "Super Exclusive Deluxe Matt Ward Edition"

**quilava1**

Grot 6 wrote:So bottom line, for thoe of you who've seen the new book...

Is the game worth staying with? OR is it past the point of no return?

How do you like the new changes?

I haven't seen the book (GW's keeping it tightly under wraps), but are a few new rules going to deny you the pleasure of hobby goodness and effectively have wasted all the time and money you put into your army. Rules that may seem ridiculous now might not be later. If anything, they should get better as new codexes are released.

That being said, GW really needs to focus on the codexes now. We don't need new fluff, new units, ect...
just give us 6th rules and point values!!!!!!!

**grizgrin**

Jesus. News & Rumors. If you are argueing about the new meta, take it to Discussions or something.

**Just Dave**

Whilst vehicles are almost certainly more fragile, infantry suffer from reduced cover saves also, whilst - more importantly - vehicles are apparently both more mobile/faster and able to fire more weapons at once.

To me, this suggests the changes aren't all 'one-way', whilst vehicles may adopt more of a glass-hammer type role, as they try to unload as many shots as they can before they're destroyed.
IMHO, this still damages expensive vehicles such as Land Raiders, but cheaper, gun-heavy tanks such as Predators could benefit from these changes.

**Mr Morden**

Pre-ordered this afternoon - at present my only worry is that psychic powers are as overpowered as I now find magic in WFB - but hopefully not as many armies don't have them.

Very very glad to hear pre-measuring is apparently in and most of the rest of the stuff sounds fun but until I have it my hands can't be sure.

oh and nice bit of fluff by Chexsta - thnx

Dark Eldar and Daemon allies - not impossible - several times in the codex they do it.............
Some odd ones though - Sisters more likely to ally with Blood Angels than Black Templars - I Idont think so- bit silly given the outlooks and nature of the Chapters.

**Drunkspleen**

Falleen9 wrote:I'm terrified at the new "Super Exclusive Deluxe Matt Ward Edition"

I've already ordered 4.

**Bobug**

Im really not getting all this complaining about vehicles, in my opinion, in 5th edition vehicles are too hard to actually kill, but are annoying easy to disable, since most damage always equates to not being able to shoot.

Now vehicles are easier to kill, which is good. Its rediculous how many points of stuff you need to commit to kill a very cheap transport, but its also better because it was too easy to stop a MBT from shooting.

Also, if 4 railguns have punched a vehicle, it should eventually die in my opinion

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I'm still convinced that the allies rule is a GW/CIA plot to destroy this site. Look at the angst that it has already provoked

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about vehicles. I mean, from a military perspective, it's moving back towards a more combined arms style of warfare. If you read about the Battle of Stalingrad, who in their right mind would send tanks in on their own? The new rules may reflect this.

As for 20 man (android) squads of necron warriors, wouldn't that make it easier for people to drop big templates on them??

**Sephyr**

Goresaw wrote:Wow... just wow. I know I sound like the sky is falling, but my god, they seem to hate assault. (In particular xeno assault armies).

Assault can come in two flavors, foot slogging blob or transported squad. Trade squad size for agility/quickness of getting into combat.

Foot slogging is going to get shot to pieces with these new rules. Now that you can just shoot the models out of cover, and ignore the one that would get a save, you can significantly whittle down an assault unit. The entire reason you took a foot assault unit was that the unit was to big to fit into a transport (and therefore will be too big to fit into cover, etc).

Transported troopers are now facing a significant nerf in their range. You can no longer get a "free" two inches from a transport. You can no longer dismount if the transport moved over 6. So now your unit has to spend even more time in its increasingly flimsy metal box of death. But you say "But assault troops get a potential 12 in assault now! This makes up for losing the 6 inches that you don't get from moving 12 and dismounting!" No. No it doesn't. Now your troops have to get out of their metal box of death into (more than likely) open ground. Now more than ever you are at the whims of the dice gods as to whether you make it into combat. If you fail the charge. You. Are. Dead. As a transported unit, you don't have the model size to endure a round of shooting.

And even when your mauled assault unit FINALLY gets into combat, it has to endure MORE shooting with snap fire. And your power weapons are AP 3 (as if terminators needed to be MORE durable...).

All of this just compounds when you factor in the weak armor saves on almost all xeno armies (except for the new chosen race, crons). With cover being nerfed, the gap between power armor and 5 up saves is going to get huge.

I have not seen a single rumor that makes assault armies better yet other than assault weapons getting AP. But lets not kid ourselves, almost none will be AP 3 or better (lolpowerarmorstillisgod).

The current tournament scene is absolutely dominated by shooting. If these armies take assault, its mean as more of a counter unit or is so ridiculous beat face its broken (DCAs anyone?).

I'm not trying to overreact or scream "I'm going to play warmahordes!" But I can't help but be extremely worried that my favored method of play, assault, is going to go the way of the do-do.

I may join you in running around looking for sky-reinforcing beams. I'd really rather eBay my assauly Dark Eldar than do the same boring venompasm blaster-dakka list everyone does, only now with more haywire. I have Infinity for games that hang on shooting for 90% of the casualties.

**oldone**

I beleive with the right list C&C will be really quite ok, so far i'm looking at DOA BA and thinking of a Null depolyment tyranids army but the latter will only work IMO if one thing is changed, and thats the

intergalactic hunter which devourers planets on apocalyptic scale can work out how to assault some one in a building or woods without

tripping over! (yes i do hate this) Also after reading the little bit of the psyker page we got it said that there is now warp charge 1 & 2, a psyker can only cast a power if his or hers master level if that of or above the warp charge.......tyranids only have one level 2 character right now (the swarm lord) yet apperently have a psyker more powerful than even the most power human psyker (see zoanthropes pages)

so all those awesome sauces spells in the new "lores" are pointless in the codex if the best ones can't be cast by the psyker that rolls them.

you GW for yet again saying my nids deserved to die.

**HAZZER**

I'll reapate the question I asked a few pages ago becuase I've not no resonce;

Dice and tape mesure limted edtion? I was told in GW they wasen't going to be? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

JB

HAZZER wrote:I'll reapate the question I asked a few pages ago becuase I've not no resonce;

Dice and tape mesure limted edtion? I was told in GW they wasen't going to be? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you worried? Just order them when they are finally available. You haven't missed them yet.

**WarOne**

My poor assault Orks look less and less viable the more I read of the changes.

**DarthDiggler**

puree wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:Isn't that a 420+ pt unit shooting at the vehicle? Shouldn't 420pts of anything shooting be able to kill a vehicle half it's cost? Assault the Necrons and they die.

Full 20 necron warrior unit = 260 pts.

Then the Phaeron is another 160 to give them relentless. How all 20 will be in range is another matter.

**Byte**

xttz wrote:So is the rulebook actually available in stores for people to read? I got the impression it was but thought we'd have more of the missing pieces by now.

Negative, all the points in this thread are based on rumors and speculative information. Funny that there's already RAW debates.

**d-usa**

Byte wrote:
xttz wrote:So is the rulebook actually available in stores for people to read? I got the impression it was but thought we'd have more of the missing pieces by now.

Negative, all the points in this thread are based on rumors and speculative information. Funny that there's already RAW debates.

RAR (Rules as Rumored) just doesn't have the same flair.

**HAZZER**

JB wrote:
HAZZER wrote:I'll reapate the question I asked a few pages ago becuase I've not no resonce;

Dice and tape mesure limted edtion? I was told in GW they wasen't going to be? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you worried? Just order them when they are finally available. You haven't missed them yet.

Thanks, do you know how long the delay is going to be?