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 BrookM wrote:
Wasn't Denny torn in two by her own Jack?

Yes, but she got better

I like the Haleys but am rather intrigued about the arm regrowth.

Maybe none of them are "actual" Haley? Maybe she's still out cold and these are all inter-temporal manifestations magically directed by her?

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Wow! Great sculpts! Sexy but not cheesy! Quite feminine too.

The one without cloak, sure.
Still a bunch of boobplate/corset... accentuation on the other two, not to speak of the unmistakably intentional bikini-look of the loincloth on the one in the middle.

Great models, but if this is the benchmark for 'not sexualized' that's a pretty low bar.

Not from my perspective, all is decent but still sexy. Maybe its my latin blood talking here

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Wow! Great sculpts! Sexy but not cheesy! Quite feminine too.

The one without cloak, sure.
Still a bunch of boobplate/corset... accentuation on the other two, not to speak of the unmistakably intentional bikini-look of the loincloth on the one in the middle.

Great models, but if this is the benchmark for 'not sexualized' that's a pretty low bar.

Not from my perspective, all is decent but still sexy. Maybe its my latin blood talking here

That must be it then, not much of that here

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Wow! Great sculpts! Sexy but not cheesy! Quite feminine too.

The one without cloak, sure.
Still a bunch of boobplate/corset... accentuation on the other two, not to speak of the unmistakably intentional bikini-look of the loincloth on the one in the middle.

Great models, but if this is the benchmark for 'not sexualized' that's a pretty low bar.

Not from my perspective, all is decent but still sexy. Maybe its my latin blood talking here

Maybe a burka would be ok

overtyrant wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Wow! Great sculpts! Sexy but not cheesy! Quite feminine too.

The one without cloak, sure.
Still a bunch of boobplate/corset... accentuation on the other two, not to speak of the unmistakably intentional bikini-look of the loincloth on the one in the middle.

Great models, but if this is the benchmark for 'not sexualized' that's a pretty low bar.

Not from my perspective, all is decent but still sexy. Maybe its my latin blood talking here

Maybe a burka would be ok

Would be good for high model count armies - saves on the painting time
Seriously though, some actually functional gear (without this sort of ridiculous stuff) would be good every once in a while.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Great models, but if this is the benchmark for 'not sexualized' that's a pretty low bar.

Have you been living under a rock for the last 20 years? Of course the bar is pretty damn low!

overtyrant wrote:
Maybe a burka would be ok

Strange how in fantasy, men are so much more likely to wear burka than women .

Nice sculpts.
Now please PP handle time travel with care, the lore is pretty clustery as is.

The lore in this game has a wonderful foundation, but ultimately is a joke because they're unwilling to take any real risks.

How so?
Every book is lore progression.

Haven't characters died or switched sides?

It's not Game of thrones level every one dies, but it doesn't have to be.

No characters have switched sides except for the special Kickstarter Cygnar guy, to my knowledge. Deneghra died... but she's a character in the Undead faction, so very little changed really. Karchev was disassembled? The Harbinger died and came back to life?

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
No characters have switched sides except for the special Kickstarter Cygnar guy, to my knowledge. Deneghra died... but she's a character in the Undead faction, so very little changed really. Karchev was disassembled? The Harbinger died and came back to life?

Vinter has changed sides numerous times, Magnus has changed sides multiple times as well.
Lich Lord Daeamortus died, so did Pyromalfic and so did Hierarch Voyle.

There are several instances of characters dying and changing sides in the fluff...

Unless it's a character I can put on the tabletop I'm not counting it. They can do all they want to with fluff-exclusive characters, they aren't who you take as the figurehead/leader/general/warcaster when actually playing the game.

Magnus sure, though. I did forget about him. Though his "switching sides" is a little gray considering he's a mercenary anyway. It's not like having a real main character from a faction change allegiances in game terms. Something like a Khadoran warcaster taking the old faith and becoming a warcaster for the Protectorate of Menoth.

PhantomViper wrote:

Vinter has changed sides numerous times, Magnus has changed sides multiple times as well.
Lich Lord Daeamortus died, so did Pyromalfic and so did Hierarch Voyle.

There are several instances of characters dying and changing sides in the fluff...

Vinter: non-model
Magnus: merc
Lich Lord D: Undead Lich
Pyromalific: non-model
Voyle: non-model

So, I'm going to agree that PP has a problem with committing their IP to significant change. No one has died. No one has changed sides. No one has been significantly altered, other than to become more powerful.

Adding, changing, and removing what are essentially bi characters doesn't really add much to the storyline. We've all read those books/series where we know the main characters can't/won't be killed, and to me they get tedious.

It's the same with Warhammer Fantasy really, it's a small setting where massive changes could have massive consequences for certain factions.

 BrookM wrote:
It's the same with Warhammer Fantasy really, it's a small setting where massive changes could have massive consequences for certain factions.

Like the Arabay Prince who killed Nagash.

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
Unless it's a character I can put on the tabletop I'm not counting it. They can do all they want to with fluff-exclusive characters, they aren't who you take as the figurehead/leader/general/warcaster when actually playing the game.

Magnus sure, though. I did forget about him. Though his "switching sides" is a little gray considering he's a mercenary anyway. It's not like having a real main character from a faction change allegiances in game terms. Something like a Khadoran warcaster taking the old faith and becoming a warcaster for the Protectorate of Menoth.

Why do you care if they are playable characters or not? If we are just talking about the fluff it should be completely irrelevant if you can play with those characters or not.

Also eMagnus is considered to be an actual Skorne Warcaster so it is a bit different than all other Mercenary Warcasters.

PhantomViper wrote:

Also eMagnus is considered to be an actual Skorne Warcaster so it is a bit different than all other Mercenary Warcasters.

Its not.

He's still a merc.

And Constance can be a full Cygnar caster, but she's still a merc.

 drazz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Vinter has changed sides numerous times, Magnus has changed sides multiple times as well.
Lich Lord Daeamortus died, so did Pyromalfic and so did Hierarch Voyle.

There are several instances of characters dying and changing sides in the fluff...

Vinter: non-model
Magnus: merc
Lich Lord D: Undead Lich
Pyromalific: non-model
Voyle: non-model

So, I'm going to agree that PP has a problem with committing their IP to significant change. No one has died. No one has changed sides. No one has been significantly altered, other than to become more powerful.

Adding, changing, and removing what are essentially bi characters doesn't really add much to the storyline. We've all read those books/series where we know the main characters can't/won't be killed, and to me they get tedious.

Vinter's storyline has led to the original invasion of Cygnar by Skorne and the later change in target when Makeda decided to focus on the elves instead. Now, if the rumours are correct, the rest of his story might lead to the death of King Leto or even the Khadoran Empress causing major upheavals in both faction's storylines.

Voyle's death had severe consequences on the development of the Protectorate and it ultimately led to the invasion of Khador. This led King Leto and the Khadoran Empress to realise that they had more common enemies and is shaping up to result in a Cygnar / Khador alliance versus Menoth and Cryx.

Pyromalphic's death and the consumption of its athanc by Everblight has had the side effect of revealing Everblight to Cryx and to the rest of the dragons, again causing major shifts in the fluff...

Those are all some of the major fluff developments that originated from the death's / changes in those characters. How can you possibly say that they haven't changed the storyline that much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 drazz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Also eMagnus is considered to be an actual Skorne Warcaster so it is a bit different than all other Mercenary Warcasters.

Its not.

He's still a merc.

And Constance can be a full Cygnar caster, but she's still a merc.

Go to his entry in the Forces of Mercenaries book and it specifically states that he is a Minion Warcaster [Skorne].

How about taking the fluff discussions to the Warmachine General Discussion area and leaving this thread for PP news?

Minion Caster [Skorne] just means he can be taken as a second caster in Skorne for 2 casters games. Which is effectively never. He isn't a Skorne Warcaster in the sense of leading a single caster Skorne force.

Wow, um... damn, now i feel bad for speaking out
I was just worried if PP had what it takes to pull off a good time travel storyline,best case the''re not actually doing it and these are just some weird magical echoes/spirits.

It needed to be said

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
The lore in this game has a wonderful foundation, but ultimately is a joke because they're unwilling to take any real risks.

Damn straight! Loved the premise for the setting, think it's one of the most enjoyable RPG settings I've ever played or run, but they can't make a compelling story to save their lives. Their story started out fun and kind of silly and pulpyand got progressively more serious and more stupid the more epic they tried to make it (without violating model plot armor), and there's basically no way to play their campaigns (at least the 3.5 stuff) without being the most do-goodin'-est party.

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
Unless it's a character I can put on the tabletop I'm not counting it.

You can put both Voyle and Vinter on the tabletop.


Just not outside two specific scenarios and a single invitation only event.

So basically people want any female models to be barely recognisable as such ? Ooooookay.........

I'll be interested to see if the models are allowed as replacements to the older Haley sculpts, which are atrocious IMO.

Now the wait for Denny riding the dragon.......

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
So basically people want any female models to be barely recognisable as such ? Ooooookay.........

Actually, now that you mention if that would lead people to stop assuming characters whose gender is barely recognizable as male, yes, I would love that to happen .
See: Shadowsun. Will you disagree that this is a very good model for a very good character?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
So basically people want any female models to be barely recognisable as such ? Ooooookay.........

Actually, now that you mention if that would lead people to stop assuming characters whose gender is barely recognizable as male, yes, I would love that to happen .
See: Shadowsun. Will you disagree that this is a very good model for a very good character?

And females in real militaries do tend to just wear the same armor as the males. Boobplate is a fiction exclusive concept and its hard to argue it isn''t objectifying.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Damn straight! Loved the premise for the setting, think it's one of the most enjoyable RPG settings I've ever played or run, but they can't make a compelling story to save their lives. Their story started out fun and kind of silly and pulpyand got progressively more serious and more stupid the more epic they tried to make it (without violating model plot armor), and there's basically no way to play their campaigns (at least the 3.5 stuff) without being the most do-goodin'-est party.

You mean the 14 years out of date version?


I have to disagree greatly though with people taking about problems with the story. As far as non-RPG, tabletop games go it is head and shoulders above anything else on the market imo.

I wish they would occasionally kill off characters with models because otherwise there's no tension in the stories where they're fighting each other, and so much less so when they're fighting some no-model guy. Unless they're someone who can be ressurected, then they're almost sure to die. Denny and Terminus, Harbinger, hell Kallus died in his introductory story.

 HoverBoy wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
So basically people want any female models to be barely recognisable as such ? Ooooookay.........

Actually, now that you mention if that would lead people to stop assuming characters whose gender is barely recognizable as male, yes, I would love that to happen .
See: Shadowsun. Will you disagree that this is a very good model for a very good character?

And females in real militaries do tend to just wear the same armor as the males. Boobplate is a fiction exclusive concept and its hard to argue it isn''t objectifying.

A No they don't where the same armor in modern militaries (At least in the US) and what a small number of women wore in historical times where armor wasn't designed with them in mind is irrelevant.

B As far as objectifying, please keep your judgmental moralizing about aesthetic choices out of the N&R thread.

C I love the models and can't wait to see the rules.