Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'd imagine that the ranged version will be the "reliable" unit, spreading out damage across multiple turns (hopefully with a +1 to hit and wound rather than vanilla rokkits).

The melee one is likely to much more capable of pulping a vehicle in one go, with the downside that they'll be melee only and are likely to get splatted the second they've killed something.

So it will probably be ranged for lighter vehicles, melee for heaviest.

But who knows, I've been wrong before on how a unit pans out.

Well, if it's five rokkits on 6 sv4+ bodies instead of 3 rokkits on 5 sv5+ bodies, I'd already take them at their current price tag without any other changes. Maybe slap a mek in there for dread mob shenanigans, but I don't really need another unit to eat up my CP.

Kill teams says they have 'eavy armour, which usually translates to 4+, so I guess my hopes for 3+ are dashed.

Stompaaa!!!!

MOAB 40K 2024 - 4th – Ben Tinker – Orks (Dread Mob): Massed Grotz, Mek Gunz and a Stompa in Dreadmob





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to understand the list right - and this is a question, I don't know!

Big Mek with Press it fasta leads the Lootas hoping for double button effect on the mass of their shooting?
Big Mek with SAG with Giftinder Googlez leadz the Mek Gunz giving Ignore cover to its SMG with the AP-3?
Simple Mek with the Supa Glowy Fig is a lone operative sitting behind the Stompa, giving her +1 to hit, fixing it every turn a flashing the units in 18”.

Right?

You are probably right, but solely for the reason that a big mek makes zero sense with mek guns due to KMB range. Maybe some wall-walking shenanigans? Press it fasta is a pretty gakky enhancement in general, but I guess if you get lucky multiple times per game, it seriously increases your win chances.

I usually have a SAG mek with goggles leading lootas, because at just 1 AP cover often makes the difference between shredding a unit and being unable to touch it.

A bit excessive on the grot side, but in general I can see a stompa working better than a naut - the naut will die when shot at with anti-tank, a stompa has a real chance of surviving multiple turns even if you go nuts with hazardous.

Let's see if I manage to finish (start ) my stompa before this edition is over.

Dataslate point's are out:
https://assets.warhammer-community.com/warhammer40000_core&key_munitorumfieldmanual_eng_16.10.pdf

Lot of stuff went down, it's a good orktober.

Well, basic infantry and MANz went down and the same for Kill and Hunta rigs and big nauts.

Generali very good news for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And small changes in our rules

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/warhammer40000_faqs&errata_orks_eng_16.10.pdf

And general rules too

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/warhammer40000_core&key_corerulesupdate&commentary_eng_16.10-1728995072.pdf

I like that they fixed all the warboss in trukk abilities but I’m still kinda annoyed they didn’t touch the main reason orks got crushed, the prior dataslate…
Bullyboys is decent again
Warhorde is good
BUT
I realize points drops wasn’t going to fix buggies but kult of speed is still awful. I expected some attempt at any buggy point drop. They just didn’t even attempt to look at this detachment.
AND
Greentide is still really bad.. they really should have rolled back the reroll armor save rolls of 1 ability and fix the Strats they butchered. Currently I rather just take bullyboys with a warboss in the boys unit for a better greentide list.
AND
Dreadmob really needs to have killakans ability to be better. I mean sure lowering meks points and deff dread/gorkanaut is nice but it’s still just a loota/shokk atk gun spam list.
And
Da big hunt
Just stay with warhorde snaggaboys and killrigs are still better there.. this detachment needed a strat to target another unit with the big hunt detachment ability and it wouldn’t have hurt to drop points on squigriders.
That’s really what’s holding this detachment back. Overall minimum effort.. but probably just enough to not make orks the worst codex mainly because warhorde is going to be decent with cheaper boys/snaggas/killrigs.
I’m more excited to see the new tankbusta rules although the push fit mixed unit weapon design still makes the unit hard to utilize.

Hmmm, there is a lot to digest.

My opinion is the big boy's will see lot of play, naut's and rig's are too good to ignore.

Our battleline being cheaper is a buff all around, fully expect double kill rigs full of beast snaggas popping around and going crazy.

Fixing the weird waaghh interactions is god send.

I do agree with something from gungo, a lot of missed opportunities.

I will experiment a bit more, if the new tankbustas have nice datasheet's i can see them replace flashgitz. A lot to digest!

Snaggaboys had a hefty drop which makes them in killrigs in a warhorde detachment decent.

Bullyboys are good where they are.. it’s not going to win competitions but my issue with bullyboys was it was unfun for most causal play. Most players just can’t deal with skew lists like this. The warboss in trukk again is the best fix for this detachment. It makes nobs great again. Overall it’s where it should be imho.

If I could get just 2 changes in the next dataslate to fix the ork codex it would be to move Waagh to command phase instead of beginning of battle round.. making Waagh reactive instead of predictable and to change killakans ability to +1 range atk to range wpns but adds hazardous to range atks.

I don’t think 15pts off a naut is going to swing dreadmob from loota/shokk gun spam to walker spam.. and to be fair you need to spam walkers to have a chance at survivability of them. You can’t just put down a single naut and 2x deffdreads as the naut will get blown off the table turn 1. I want to see 9x killakans on the table 2-3 deff dreads, a naut, and several trukk boys supported by a squad or 2 of lootas w shokk guns. We need killakans to be good for a proper deeadmob. The detachment ability itself is good.

I think the biggest missed opportunity for point drop was squigriders.. they were just 10ppm away from being good enough to carry da big hunt or 5ppm away from being costed correctly if they had a strat to target another unit with the detachment ability.

Agree!

Except Speedfreaks - this detachement is broken in his core. No matter how cheap you make the buggies, they will still be a crap.

1. Waaagh is just for melee. Buggies are basicly shooting. And warbikers mostly too. In melee they are just few boyz. No Speedwaaagh for shooting = no change on this detachement.


That is the reason btw why just one Kult of speed build scores sometimes = Kopta spam, because only Koptas do something in melee.

2. Totaly stupid strategems. Sorry but out of 6 strategems - one is useless, another two exist just because of Trukk + MANz kombo, another 2 could be great if buggies could a unit of 3, not just simple models and the last one I don ´ t even remeber…

3. Datasheets of the speedfreak units are so bad, it ´ s waste of time to go into details.

4. Warbikers needs to be a Battleline

5. There is not enough of existing models / units to fill 2000p because
- airplanes are useless in this ed
- there are no Nob bikers
- there just one character you can use because Warboss on Warbike is gone
- max 3 buggie. No units

On the end you have to build it about the transports with the infantry. Wait… isn t it a type of the list War Horde exist for?

My list basically gained a Meganob it seems.

War Horde

2x Beastboss (Kunnin)
2x Warboss
Ghaz
Moz

4x Trukk

2x Beastboyz
2x 5 Nobz
2x 5 Flash Gitz
2x Gretchin
2x Stormboyz
1x 3 Meganobz
1x 4 Squighogz

I seem to have gained 55 points. Really not sure where to spend them at the moment, might even just take Glory Hog and Surly on my Squigosaurs and call it a day to save me having to build or paint anything else Maybe drop Proper Killy and take another Weirdboy?



Overall, things look pretty good for us after the updates. Kult of Speed is still dead in the water though, but the whole detachment needs an entire rework.

My main upset is that they didn't make the Stompa 650pts so I can run 3 with a single Mek and call it an army

gungo wrote:
Snaggaboys had a hefty drop which makes them in killrigs in a warhorde detachment decent.

I don’t think 15pts off a naut is going to swing dreadmob from loota/shokk gun spam to walker spam.. and to be fair you need to spam walkers to have a chance at survivability of them. You can’t just put down a single naut and 2x deffdreads as the naut will get blown off the table turn 1. I want to see 9x killakans on the table 2-3 deff dreads, a naut, and several trukk boys supported by a squad or 2 of lootas w shokk guns. We need killakans to be good for a proper dreadmob. The detachment ability itself is good.

Not sure i agree, snagga boys were already decent units, even better now.

As for the naut, hypothetically, yeah, but i have also seen players struggling to open a single truck. It is already costing a little more then 30pts vs Ghaz, i think they have play as duos, fill them with grots and you have some nice distraction carnifexes that have some teeth and OC. Or give them a mek etc..I think their a solid option and oppressive in the right hands. But it is totally a kill rig day.

But that is my point of view.

Still disappointed no rule changes for buggies, speed freaks and shooting in general.

Buggies are just an all around bad profile. They need a complete rework. The problem is just that the kits are too expensive and large to spam for the cost they need to be for the role they're designed to serve.

Looks at mek guns.

Don't think that is the issue. Buggies are probably paying for the sins of 9th, + air planes.

I already noticed GW does not like to push units that were OP.

Or at least they're overly cautious with previously OP units. KoS might get a big update with the next balance patch, or they might continue to be the unwanted detachment. We don't know what's going to happen, we can only speculate

I'm not sure why we are even discussing this. Unless you are living under a rock (and not the shooty smash-into-planets kind of rock), it was crystal clear that at this time of the year GW would update points only. And points can't fix buggies.

We get a new dataslate next time, and that's when GW might make a passt at the kult of speed, for example by bringing some sort of speed Waaagh! back. Though I wouldn't hold my breath for it. They will definitely focus on observing what impact the changes to dreadmob, green tide, bully boyz and beasty boyz will have on external balance before concerning themselves with internal balance again.

That said, the buffs to dread mob are great. The point drops allow me nearly 200 points of additional models, which would allow me to field anything from a sag/loota mob a trukk loaded with snaggas or nobz or even a gorkanaut on top of what I'm currently running if I drop a mek gun or a unit of gretchin. Many close victories and losses would have easily been won if I had a unit or two more on the board.

I agree that kanz pretty much suck right now, but not because of their damage output. If they ever get to shoot and charge, they absolutely earn their share. Getting there is the problem though, because the are slow as feth. Almost every army has guns that are highly effective at killing kanz and there is little reason to not just blow them off the table whenever possible. They would need the durability of scout sentinels or broadsides to not be the total pushovers they are now.
With koptas going down to 90, I'll probably play koptas instead now. It's not like I'm lacking targets to throw CP at.

I don't think they are necessary to make dread mob work though. I pretty much leave them at home unless I want to run them for non-competitive reasons already. Dread mob has plenty of units that can be lead by meks, both nauts have good datasheets and the gork might just be cheap enough to actually work well now.
Agaisnt most armies I also don't really struggle against hard targets. Pretty much every unit is armed with KMBs and rokkits, stratagem buffed lootas are a terror to vehicles and monsters and shoota boyz double-dip da button for a ton of chip damage.

The only thing I really do struggle with is T11+ modes with a 2+ saves. I specifically switched by MANz to dual killsaws just to tackle this weakness. Ooutside of dreads melee and KMK there is nothing that works well against a LRBT and armies with durable tanks usually have no issues with evaporating deff dreads of mek guns. Even if your dread connects with a tank, there is a decent chance of not killing it. I'm seriously considering running some beast snaggas boyz now, just to have something which can threaten those hard targets.

If only one of the buggies had a S12 gun or could benefit from da button, I'd play it instantly...

Funny you mentioned that..

I came to some of your conclusions a while back at the start.. my local meta is almost always high save.

Although when it's just low T, nobz work, the stuff that was high T, i was seeing a lot of bouncing off, specially the nobz.

I had to resort to snaggas for the dev/anti combo to make them question their choices.

Fast forward i came to some of your conclusions.

I use 5 meganobz with saw with warboss, inside a truck. Cheap and durable, or just walk 6 with Ghaz. His new profile and buffs are amazing if you have 10 nobz close.

Gorkanaut melee swing also works really well and the rockets can do some work.

But currently my cheapest combo to deal with vehicles is the beastboss with snaggas one. 175pts is a steal for the bodies and potential.

 Jidmah wrote:
We get a new dataslate next time

That's the term I was looking for. I'm completely in agreement that it's unlikely to happen, but who knows what GW might do.

Back on a tactics discussion, I'm in agreement that the Snagga part of the range is probably our generic solution to high toughness/low save units these days. I've gone all in on the anti/devastating combo, and otherwise rely on sheer volume of basic attacks like the old days. Massed klaws and saws are pretty good, but the Snagga stuff seems to win out due to slightly lower costs overall. Klaws and Saws are definitely the better all-comer killers though.

Forceride wrote:
Funny you mentioned that..

I came to some of your conclusions a while back at the start.. my local meta is almost always high save.

Although when it's just low T, nobz work, the stuff that was high T, i was seeing a lot of bouncing off, specially the nobz.

I had to resort to snaggas for the dev/anti combo to make them question their choices.

Just high saves aren't really a problem in dread mob though. Terminators and custodes just die in a hail of rokkit and KMB fire, combined with grenades or tankshock. I don't even bother to pick a buff for them.

Same goes for high toughness - with bigger shell for bigger gitz, lootas even wound monoliths on 4+. Most times they one-shot these models just die to just one unit's shooting alone.

When you have both at the same time, worst case combined with a reduction in AP or stealth, that's when stuff gets messy. Lootas don't work anymore because the chance of them just saving all shots from a buffed unit is too high, shoota boyz bounce right off in combat, SAG, rokkits and KMB no longer have the weight to push through those last few points of damage, and neither lethal hits nor sustained hits can change that.
So essentially, your entire army has to pile on such a unit in order to kill it. If it's well positioned or your opponent rolled hot when shooting your high damage units or when rolling saves, you'll run out of units fast.

One of my regular opponents pretty much run nothing but LRBT, scout sentinels and heavy weapon teams and he is very difficult to beat for me, despite him not being a good player. I usually win by 5-10 points, with no models left on the table.

Fast forward i came to some of your conclusions.

I use 5 meganobz with saw with warboss, inside a truck. Cheap and durable, or just walk 6 with Ghaz. His new profile and buffs are amazing if you have 10 nobz close.

Actually, I'm using the MA big mek with smokestack here.
First, because high T/high save models are either battle tanks with high damage, high ap main cannons and meltas, monsters with high damage, high AP attacks or walkers with both. MANz are just too slow to actually hunt those and get blasted to smithereens by them.
The role my MANz have in my army is to take an objective in no-mans land and then fight off anyone trying to challenge it. If my opponent focuses them at full strength while the Waaagh! is up, the other, much higher damage parts of my army, remain undamaged and I get to shoot them with more stuff. More than once, this has won me the game right then and there. Essentially looted 8th edition Mortarion
If they half-ass them, the mek keeps bringing MANz back, and the saws project a no-go area for high durability targets around them. Having MANz sit on an objective and potentially scoring a secondary for two or three turns wins games.

Gorkanaut melee swing also works really well and the rockets can do some work.

I've only played Morkanauts so far, but usually they die bevor they can punch high value units. It has fared much better for me hiding in the back for the first one or two rounds and taking shots from 24" away, similar to how people run their stompas.

But currently my cheapest combo to deal with vehicles is the beastboss with snaggas one. 175pts is a steal for the bodies and potential.

Agree. That's why - despite having no synergy with dread mob whatsoever - I'd rather run them in a trukk or a kill rig than of units of kanz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One last thing that also needs to be said out loud - the ork codex clearly feels incomplete when your are not playing crusade.

The battle honors, relics, kustom jobs and loot items are exactly what is missing from many sub-par units. One of my shoota boy mobs has rolled the enhancement for +1 BS and it has become a super competitive unit with just that, gunning down infantry left and right while their rokkits punch reliably damage enemy vehicles.
Tellyporta blasta with 18" range, buggies with weapon improvements on their main gun, deff dread with extra speed, SAG with melta 3, speed freeks with free smoke screens once per battle, +1BS any vehicle of your choice...

It feels like this is how the codex should play, and it feels off when playing matched play.

Do not hope for Kult of Speed.

I said it couple of times, time to repeat - there is a simple economy circle behind what is hot and what not.

1. You make a new models. Big promo. gakky rules. People buy because of the rule of cool. Remeber when the buggies came? Takes 1-2 years.
2. You make cool rules. Sometimes not so great or OP, than stabilized. Remeber “new” codex? Than add some other new stuff to support. Remember Koptas and Speedmob? 1-2 years.
3. You make the models useless - about 4 years…

This runs simultaneously. In the moment one models step in phase 2, some other ones come in step 1. Etc.

Buggies came in to step 3. Now the Beastsnaggas comming from step 1 to step 2.
Now so other hot new models should come as a step 1. New Big Mek is already there, now the tankbustas. It seems this wave is about refreshing the old models. It obviously should take another 2 years before there will be another window for the buggies.

However, some another line of models could come instead and the return of the buggies will be further postponed.

“New old” + “snaggas” = our models for the rest of the 10th.

The whole codex is written so, it is hard to imagine some fixes that can fixe the Kult of Speed and the buggies.

Big hope for the Kans and Dreads

The similar logic could be applied to Dreadmob. Just without the new models which is actually very clever.

They made a Detachement that says “kans and dreads are cool” to sell old models that was useless for decades. In spring or next summer I expect some kind of point / rule fix makeing them great. Maybe even stompa get some point drop

I think speculating on GW marketing conspiracies is a waste of time. There is a mountain of evidence that tells us otherwise and there is literally this one time some (now fired) manager interfered with balancing to sell a brand new model over a decade ago, in a company with completely different culture than today's GW.
Even if there were such plans, GW has proven repeatedly that they are unable to tweak their rules accordingly.

The reason why people perceive this as "GW is hyping up X and then dropping it" is because everyone goes all in on the bestest flavor of the month units/armies for easy wins without thinking twice. They then turn into surprise pikachu when their super "fun and flavorful" list gets hit by the nerf everyone had seen coming from a mile away. They blame GW, vow to never buy from them again, and then drop another 300 bucks/10 pounds of resin on the next flavor of the month bestest thing.

I have this one player in my crusade, who literally throws a fit after every single balance update. Every single time, he then drops his entire crusade force because it's now ruined and starts a new one. None of the other 11 players playing a total of 9 factions have his issues. On top of that he is now complaining about not being able to compete with legendary characters picking up insane relics from their codices, because his guy have no experience yet.

Literally all it takes is to stop trying to pay to win. This is no longer 7th or 8th edition where not playing a cookie-cutter build automatically meant no chance at winning. Just look through the last lists you posted - people can clearly top tournaments without blindly following the flavor of the month. I have also no issues winning games despite running dread mob almost exclusively, I'm just not stomping people flat into the ground.

GW is a mid-sided company selling a luxury goods they can pretty much price at whatever people are willing to pay them. As I work in a very similar company, almost none of the decisions they have taken in the last years have come as a surprise to me, and none of them are related to them trying to scam you out of your money. It's just basic soulless business stuff. They have grown massively over the last years, and now they are optimizing the processes, getting rid of everything that costs too much money, including beloved models from the past. Just like every other industry selling luxury goods.

FW 40k is being disbanded because producing those models is time consuming (3 days for 3 garg squigs), wages have gone up, competition is numerous with similar or better quality and the one person who was taking care of it with all his heart has left us. People have been telling everyone to not buy FW models unless you want those models for display purposes for the last few years. Every single codex this edition has been accompanied by a complete purge of that army's resin range. GW has even written an article about how they are going to move all non-titan FW models to legends.

Yet, when dread mob was announced, the pay to win crowd cleared them out everywhere, just to then be outraged when the obvious happened. The number of "I just bought $500 worth of these little guys, now they are useless :(" posts across all platforms was baffling. And yet the same people then went out an bought five or more boxes of MANz, just to be angry at the bully boyz nerf six months later.

GW is not doing this to people. They are doing it to themselves.

Process vs. Motivation

My post was not a complain, but the description of the process that teds to repeat.

I agree with the most of you write about motivations behind and around. You are right, that what I describe is not “a plan to scam”. It is maybe a rational plan based on couple of factors, most propably partialy no plan at all.

I agree with you with the one exception - because I do not build a new army every month like your dude, but every 2-3 years I need to speculate. It takes me a year to make it at least. I need to have an army that will works somehow on the end.

Do not base the army on FW models was exactly this type of speculation. Exactly because of what you say.

I play warhammer since 8th. Most of the time significant part of the codex/index was impossible to play competitive.

Now the balance is better and the purge of FW and same price for all equipement fix this drasticly too. The number of possible combinations is drasticly reduced.

But the experience form last few years I have is dangerous. I can paint for two years and than have an army for the shelf. Say hallo to my buggies.

That is where I do not agree with you. If you want to play competitive on the hobby level, you need to speculate what is gonna happen. It is hard and you will be mostly wrong but elementary logic “new models will be sooner or later fine” combined with “to make the ork army interesting during the time and sell the players the widest range of armys models, the cool/uncool models will be changed during the time” is legitimet argument. And it is not the complain. I ' m absolutely ok with it.

Simply, if the battlewagon and ghazzy was the best models for 5 years, everybody would play and paint just them and the game will be boring and business bad. We want a fun game and we need GW have the good business. No business no GW. So it is absolutely fine.

I just say - if you wanna have a competitive models next year, paint basics, snaggas and dreads and skip the buggies. Because of this.

Hey Jidmah, not disagreeing, but have you considered having a chat with said player?

Not wishing to pry but i generally think problems can be solved with a chat exploring the issue.

Although you might not care.. Totally ok with it. But pretty sure the guy being such a downer does not feels alright with the rest.

I am speaking from a perspective of a small local, every player is worth it's weight in gold. Don't get me wrong Warhammer is an expensive hobby, and in a poor and football fanatic country, i tend to fight tooth and nail for each.

As for speculation.. who cares, each model will have it's time in the sun, and if you really enjoy it, you will find a way to fit them somewhere... That's why i enjoy teaching new bros, they bring passion and energy to the game. Seeing them amazed at the minis that the meta says are crap is uplifting.. I dunno, some bros i even say "ignore the meta, have fun, kill stuff and see your stuff die".

Honestly i get more concerned about vet's, their generally very competitive and feel the meta more heavily.. hey even I. Then i have to remember I play orks, i never started playing for the win, just for the laugh's.

Heh, Jidmah is very right, that quite a lot of different builds could be succesfull. In todays Meta Monday, there are 2 ork armies - one Horde and one Bully.

You can see the bully with the tripple MANz in action here

https://www.youtube.com/live/Tf5Av8BvZdM?si=9Gse4nI351S5mUDQ


List there


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forceride - do not tell this anyone, who bought a Mekboy Workshop

On the other side, it is quite valuable item on ebay now, so in fact, your are right

 Tomsug wrote:

Forceride - do not tell this anyone, who bought a Mekboy Workshop

On the other side, it is quite valuable item on ebay now, so in fact, your are right

hehe

 Tomsug wrote:
I agree with you with the one exception - because I do not build a new army every month like your dude, but every 2-3 years I need to speculate. It takes me a year to make it at least. I need to have an army that will works somehow on the end.

Do not base the army on FW models was exactly this type of speculation. Exactly because of what you say.

I play warhammer since 8th. Most of the time significant part of the codex/index was impossible to play competitive.

Now the balance is better and the purge of FW and same price for all equipement fix this drasticly too. The number of possible combinations is drasticly reduced.

But the experience form last few years I have is dangerous. I can paint for two years and than have an army for the shelf. Say hallo to my buggies.

I understand, but there is a difference in painting up 6 kanz and a dread in hopes dread mob gets buffed and painting up 18 mek gunz because they are gamebreaking good. Same for buggies. While I mourn my display case full of speed freeks, I have zero sympathy for those people who have 9 squigbuggies and 9 scrapjets on their shelves.

That is where I do not agree with you. If you want to play competitive on the hobby level, you need to speculate what is gonna happen.

What's competitive level though? LVO level? Do you attend GT regularly and try to win them? Do you play in a store where actual pros play?
Or do you play at a store where half the people pretend to be competitive with few of them actually being good and many others just playing what everyone else is playing?
Or are you playing in a gaming club, facing the same people every week with a meta that evolved different from the public competitive scene?

If you want to play the big league, you need to pay the big money. Eventually you own every model and the problem goes away. And since you clearly paint just as slow as I do and don't have a crew painting for you, you probably don't won't ever get there. In every other scenario today, in 10th player skill by far outweighs a perfect army composition, as long as you are running a functional army. Almost every datasheet in our codex has another, slightly less efficient one that does the same thing. The game will be harder and you won't win a big as you would otherwise, but you also aren't going to lose just because you didn't have that third unit of SAG+lootas.

When the wheel of balance turns, you can just look at your collection and run the best army from what you have. Afrodactyl is doing great with his beastsnaggas, despite none of the top competitive crowd even thinking about touching it with ten foot pole. Because his player skill makes much more of difference than the extra 5% win rate another army would have.

So my advice in general is to spread you collection of units as wide as you can. This way you will always have an army you can win with. Going all in on literally any unit is just asking for filling shelves with orks. Take this from someone who owns 4 battlewagons, 45 lootas without spannas, 3 KFF big meks and 3 fully magnetized bommers. I learned my lesson the hard way.

It is hard and you will be mostly wrong but elementary logic “new models will be sooner or later fine” combined with “to make the ork army interesting during the time and sell the players the widest range of armys models, the cool/uncool models will be changed during the time” is legitimet argument. And it is not the complain. I ' m absolutely ok with it.

Still waiting for the pain boss to be good. Or the snazzwagon. Or the wurrboy. Or the big 'ead bossbunka.
Some models almost took 10 years to finally get their moment in the spotlight, like the mini mek or flash gits. And not for the lack of GW trying.
It's literally a gamble and what you are describing here is the gambler's fallacy.

When you just buy the models you like or the models which are available at a discount (kill team, combat patrol, boarding action, battleforces), you are just as likely to hit gold as you are by trying to find patterns where there are none.

Forceride wrote:
Hey Jidmah, not disagreeing, but have you considered having a chat with said player?

Not wishing to pry but i generally think problems can be solved with a chat exploring the issue.

Although you might not care.. Totally ok with it. But pretty sure the guy being such a downer does not feels alright with the rest.

I am speaking from a perspective of a small local, every player is worth it's weight in gold. Don't get me wrong Warhammer is an expensive hobby, and in a poor and football fanatic country, i tend to fight tooth and nail for each.

Yes, I got this issue out in the open to prevent people talking behind his back all the time without ever directly talking to him. However, he is gaslighting us and claims that he just like to play different things and just happens to stumble on good armies by accident/because. If he doesn't want to solve the problem, there is nothing we can do. It's not up to a toxic level though and he is a pleasant person to have around otherwise, so I just ignore his quarterly rants about GW ruining the hobby again, and that's it

Thanks for caring though.

As for speculation.. who cares, each model will have it's time in the sun, and if you really enjoy it, you will find a way to fit them somewhere... That's why i enjoy teaching new bros, they bring passion and energy to the game. Seeing them amazed at the minis that the meta says are crap is uplifting.. I dunno, some bros i even say "ignore the meta, have fun, kill stuff and see your stuff die".

Honestly i get more concerned about vet's, their generally very competitive and feel the meta more heavily.. hey even I. Then i have to remember I play orks, i never started playing for the win, just for the laugh's.

My point of view is more like that you don't need to chase the flavor of the month to play competitively. Your ability to play orks well, understand what the enemy is doing, how to counter them and plan for the meta is much more relevant to your ability to win games than having 15 MANz battle ready to get easy wins playing bully boyz for three months.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Forceride - do not tell this anyone, who bought a Mekboy Workshop

On the other side, it is quite valuable item on ebay now, so in fact, your are right

Never liked the model, it always felt like they slapped a random datasheet on scatter terrain. Love the datasheet though, so I got the one from kromlech. I hope they will eventually do a propper mek workshop like they did with the ADL.

 Jidmah wrote:


I understand, but there is a difference in painting up 6 kanz and a dread in hopes dread mob gets buffed and painting up 18 mek gunz because they are gamebreaking good. Same for buggies. While I mourn my display case full of speed freeks, I have zero sympathy for those people who have 9 squigbuggies and 9 scrapjets on their shelves.

Yesss

Otherwise agree.

The fact is, that few aspects changed recently.

- Less “useless” units in the codex.
- If you want to fill the shelfs with the orks, good idea is “build the units” and and follow the leaders to other one to open himselfs the options. You can chain it.
- Max number of models possible in the army is drasticly reduced so the “final scale” of the army is significantly smaller than used to be. No more 9 buggies, 9 dreads, 9 different planes, no more 30 model blobs of boyz… 18 Koptas seems to be the last exception on the “man hours to paint to points” scale