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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:07:48
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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spoilers are spoilers so...
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:14:52
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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Little bit of text so folks can't accidently scroll and see the info.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/18 14:15:06
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:16:48
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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There will definitely be another Batman movie. How and what and why and who greatly depends on what happens with Man of Steel.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:21:44
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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Have they announced the bad guy for that one yet?
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"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:23:46
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Zod and friends.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 14:32:11
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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Okay, I'm not going to lie.. my interest in that film just went from pratically nil, to I need to see it.
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"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 15:13:36
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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I'm staying well clear of spoilers, but my expectation for the film is that it's a mashup of Knightfall and The Dark Knight Returns. Which could mash up surprisingly pretty well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 15:16:57
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I dunno, they seem to have almost opposite conclusions about Batman. In TDKR, Miller justifies an incredibly violent Batman. In Knightfall/Knightquest/KnightsEnd, escalated violence is thoroughly repudiated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 15:23:13
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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I'm looking at it from a plot standpoint and not a thematic standpoint. Both involve Batman "rising" as it were, and you could craft a story from elements of both.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 16:08:03
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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It's true that both books have Batman coming out of retirement, which seems to be a plot point of Dark Knight Rises. But is that really a mash up of TDKR and the 90s Dixon/Kelly run?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/18 17:12:36
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Dominating Dominatrix
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It' won't be out in Germany for another week. Well, at least we got Avengers early.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 11:35:17
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=13509
The horrifying physiological and psychological consequences of being Aquaman
Aquaman may not be everybody’s favorite superhero, but since his creation in 1941, he has been among DC’s most enduring icons. During the Golden Age of comic books, he held his own against Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Silver Age Aquaman was a founding member of the Justice League. His powers, tied to the ocean, forced writers to create a compelling, complex hero with explicit limitations. In the early days, when Superman’s strength was practically infinite, and Batman’s brilliance was unmatched, Aquaman had to become more than just a superhero, he had to be a person.
If Superman existed to show us how high the human spirit could fly, and Batman to show us the darkness within even our most noble, Aquaman is here to show us the world that triumphs in our absence. The ocean is not ours, and no matter how great our technology, we will never master it as we have mastered land, but Aquaman has. Through this lonely ocean wanderer, we can experience a world that we can never truly command. In many ways, Aquaman was stronger than the Man of Steel and darker than the Dark Knight. He knew loneliness that the orphan and the alien exile never could.
Roll on, thou deep and dark blue Ocean – roll!
Ten thousand fleets sweep over thee in vain;
Man marks the earth with ruin – his control
Stops with the shore; — upon the watery plain
The wrecks are all thy deed, not does remain
A shadow of man’s ravage, save his own,
When for a moment, like a drop of rain,
He sinks into thy depths with bubbling groan,
Without a grave, unknell’d, uncoffin’d, and unknown.
Byron
Even though Aquaman had to fight harder, endure the jokes of other, less limited heroes, and find relevance in an ecosystem hostile to the humans that had to empathize with him, Aquaman was never forced to confront the truly horrifying consequences of life in the ocean.
The penetrating cold
Aquaman is, for all intents and purposes, a marine mammal. And, with the exception of a healthy mane in later incarnations, he is effectively hairless. As a human, we would expect his internal body temperature to hover around 99°F, or about 37°C. Even at its warmest points, the surface temperature of the ocean around the equator is only about 80°F/27°C. At the poles ocean temperature can actually drop a few degrees below freezing. In the deep sea, ambient temperature levels out around 2 – 4°C. The ocean is cold, and water is a much better thermal conductor than air. Warm blooded species have evolved many different systems to manage these gradients, including countercurrent heat exchangers, insulating fur, and heavy layers of blubber. This is what a marine mammal that can handle cold waters look like:
Elephant Seal. NSF, photo by Mike Usher
Aquaman. DC Comics. This is not a man familiar with the term “blubber”.
Aquaman is not just a human, he is an incredibly buff human. Look at his picture. If the man has more than 2% body fat, I’d be shocked. In contrast, warm-water bottlenose dolphins have at least 18 to 20% body fat. Anyone who SCUBA dives knows that, even with a 12 millimeter neoprene wet suit, after a few hours in 80°F water, you get cold. Aquaman, lacking any visible insulation, should have slipped into hypothermia sometime early in More Fun Comics #73. He is better built for the beach than the frigid deep.
Concentration gradients are not for the faint of heart
This raises the next issue with life in the water, osmotic pressure. The human body is hypotonic compared to seawater. That means that there are more molecules in seawater than in our cells. Assuming Aquaman is drawing seawater into his lungs, sinuses, and other air chambers, he must maintain internal equilibrium within his body for his cellular transmembrane proteins to function. So his cells begin expelling water to increase their internal molecular density. As he loses water, his cells shrivel and begin to lyse. The kidneys, likely, will be the first to go, but most of his internal organs, especially those in the respiratory and circulatory system will fail. If he hasn’t frozen to death, he will dehydrate, ending his Justice League tenure as shriveled human jerky.
Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
The only silver lining for this Silver Age hero is that without efficient ion-exchange pathways, his brain will shut down as his blood becomes saturated with sodium.
And then you get bent…
Let assume that, through the magic of comics, Aquaman has managed to overcome the challenges of temperature and osmotic pressure. He still must face the dreaded threat of all divers – decompression sickness: the bends. Aquaman has gills, which means that he is extracting oxygen from seawater and pumping is across a membrane. At pressure, such as what you might experience a few hundred feet beneath the surface, oxygen is toxic, even fatal. Divers breathing pure oxygen suffer traumatic injuries. Even if he somehow manages to extract an appropriate mixture of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen, Aquaman still must contend with the crippling effects of gas expansion in his blood stream. As he changes depths, bubbles of nitrogen come out of solution, clogging his circulatory system and causing possibly fatal embolisms.
A spherical lesion found in a rib of a dead sperm whale that beached on Nantucket was likely caused by nitrogen bubbles that formed when the whale rose too rapidly from high-pressure depths. The bubbles obstruct blood flow and lead to bone damage. (Photo credit: Tom Kleindinst)
Even deep-diving marine mammals suffer from the bends. Sperm whales cope with gas accumulation by depositing excess gasses in their bones, creating a porous, brittle skeleton, riddle with osteonecrosis — patches of dead bone. For a superhero, bones that snap like a sponge are not conducive to fighting evil. And Aquaman fights, and swims, and pushes his body to its supra-physical limits.
Calories out must equal calories in
Aquaman is one of the fastest swimmers in the ocean. He chases German U-boats, out-swims dolphins, can even catch up to a torpedo. The Justice League reports that Aquaman can swim at 10,000 feet per second. 10,000 feet per second is more than 3 kilometers per second, or 6,800 miles per hour. We’re talking Superman speeds, here. For comparison, Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps can sustain a speed of 4.7 miles per hour. To maintain that pace, Phelps burns about 1,000 calories per hour while racing, up to about 6,000 calories a day. If Aquaman were to spend an hour swimming at full speed, he would burn 1.4 million Calories. Even to survive a day strolling at a leisurely 10 miles per hour, enough to travel from Beaufort, North Carolina to Bermuda in about 3 days, Aquaman would need to replace 48,000 Calories each day.
Th ocean is full of food. Tuna contain a hearty 1440 Calories per kilogram, so Aquaman could get away with eating a bit more than 33 kilos of tuna per day. Unfortunately, tuna are fast. Aquaman would have to burn even more energy chasing them down. And that’s assuming he wants to eat a dense, energy rich fish. Knowing Aquaman, he probably understands tuna over-fishing better than most. Odds are, our hero is eating from the bottom of the food chain. Actually, Aquaman may not have a choice in the matter because, as the ocean acidifies, the enamel in his teeth will literally begin to dissolve. Since he won’t be digging his pearly whites into anything substantial, it looks like plankton soup is on the menu. This means that, just to stay alive (let alone do battle with the Legion of Doom), Aquaman must eat pretty much continuously.
The constant eating would also contribute to the single most horrifying aspect of being Aquaman…
The constant, unceasing screams of dying marine life
Golden age Aquaman can talk to sea life. Modern iterations can communicate telepathically with ocean creatures. Even excluding humans, the ocean is a brutal place. Aquaman, alone is consuming untold thousands of animals to sustain his svelte, 48,000 Calorie-per-day, figure. Seeing as he must continuously eat, there’s little time for cooking, or even humanely killing his prey. He is surrounded by the psychic screams of every zooplankter that enters his cold-hearted gullet, each one, begging for mercy as it plunges into his hypertonic stomach.
His victims aren’t the only ones he is forced to hear. Throughout the ocean, predators stalk their prey, parasites consume the eyes, tongues, and gonads of their unwilling victims. Superman avoids the screams of the suffering by being a callous jackass with some hyper-narcissistic code that forbids him from “interfering” with the path of human history (which is why he’ll swoop in to stop a mugger, but has no problem letting Adolf Hitler march across Europe). Aquaman, however, loves the ocean with every porous, necrotic bone in his body. He is its protector. Which means that every dying sea creature breaks his tachycardic heart.
And we haven’t even touched the consequences of an ocean exploited by human beings. Aquaman can see the scars left by every trawl, can feel the life being sucked out of the ocean, knows the name of every fish, dolphin, and crab whose life has been taken by our nets and lines. His life is the constant, horrible drone of unspeakable, unstoppable death.
No wonder he drinks like a fish.
.. well.. maybe
. course he can and would kick your ass so...
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 11:41:18
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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Regarding the DCNU, I see they are doing special Issue 0 copies to mark the year since the relaunch giving us background and origin twists.
Just wondering, anyone know why John is on the cover for Green Lantern instead of Hal?
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"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 11:49:07
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 11:59:17
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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You know, when they recommended sports illustrated, I
dont necessarily think they meant the swimsuit edition. The
female athletes ARE different from the bat woman sketch.
However, then the image might be smaller with smaller boobs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 14:03:06
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I genuinely despise that "durr let's apply REAL SCIENCE to comics" mumbo jumbo. Also, who the feth cares about this "realistic anatomy" gak? It's good, however, that these two things have come up in such close proximity (thanks reds8n!) because it highlights that the same misguided obsession with "realism" -- what I'll call, to borrow a phrase, the mind killer -- underlies both.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/19 16:45:02
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Dominating Dominatrix
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Great, just when I was beginning to like Aquaman they do this.
That Batwoman thing is really sad though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 04:04:19
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Even aside from the irrelevant (though interesting and educational) physical stuff, the point about Aquaman being a guy who's acclimated to a vast, cold wilderness devoid of humanity does give a different perspective on the character.
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Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 08:05:07
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Dominating Dominatrix
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Daniel Way is writing the Deadpool videogame.
Don't look at me like that. We all knew it wouldn't be Joe Kelly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 08:54:33
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Manchu wrote:I genuinely despise that "durr let's apply REAL SCIENCE to comics" mumbo jumbo. Also, who the feth cares about this "realistic anatomy" gak? It's good, however, that these two things have come up in such close proximity (thanks reds8n!) because it highlights that the same misguided obsession with "realism" -- what I'll call, to borrow a phrase, the mind killer -- underlies both.
“In Wetham’s diagnosis, then, children were too underdeveloped to separate the outlandish fantasy in their comic books from everyday reality, and this made them vulnerable to barely concealed homosexual and antisocial content.
I tend to believe the reverse is true: that it’s adults who have the most trouble separating fact from fiction. A child knows that real crabs on the beach do not sing or talk like the cartoon crabs in THE LITTLE MERMAID. A child can accept all kinds of weird-looking creatures and bizarre occurrences in a story because the child understands that stories have different rules that allow for pretty much anything to happen.
Adults, on the other hand, struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know HOW Superman can possibly fly, or HOW Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it’s not real.”
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—Grant Morrison, Supergods.
.. sa for the Batwoman thing..
..hmm.. whilst I'm aware that comic books have unfeasible physiques for both male and female participants, I do think the description of her as being too fat and not " top heavy" enough was somewhat telling. There's a far wider variety of ( in comic book terms) acceptable and diverse male body types in comic books than there are for females it's seemed generally. This really just seems to suggest that this slim focus ( excuse the pun) is quite deliberate.
And I don't think that's healthy either in a wider societal context or for the industry itself perhaps.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 08:59:06
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell
Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.
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Aye, looking at the persons pic of Batwoman, I really don't have an issue with it and it seems a shame such 'harsh' criticism would be levelled at it. I also agree the idea that this industry 'norm' is unbreakable would be a tad worrying. Makes me want to rebel a little bit really.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/20 08:59:22
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 13:11:30
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Dominating Dominatrix
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For reasons I can't quite explain I want to read Red Lanterns, even though I haven't read anything Lantern related for years. Is it worth it and can I read it on its own? There's a TPB.
Also just bought Avenging Spider-Man #1 and Kick-Ass 2.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 14:28:36
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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@reds8n: That's probably my favorite quote from SuperGods. I have this whole huge argument about how fundamentalist our culture is and how this is reflected in the comic book fandom among other things. I'm thinking of writing a book called something like "iPad Thumpers." reds8n wrote:There's a far wider variety of ( in comic book terms) acceptable and diverse male body types in comic books than there are for females it's seemed generally.
But I definitely disagree with this. Sure, we've got Moleman in addition to Superman. But non-majestic male bodies are almost always portrayed as evil, hideous, and otherwise vile. Of course there are skinnier guys versus more muscular guys just like their are gamine ladies versus more buxom ones.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 14:50:36
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Hmm.. really ?
I'd also point out we get 9 top of my head) The Thing, Hulk, Harvey Bullock, James Gordon, Plastic Man, Elongated Man...
.. hell go to some of the..wackier.... elements from the LoS -- Bouncing Boy ? matter eater Lad ? --- and they're still heroic often despite their build ( or the ludicrousness of their powers.. but that's a whole other argument  ) .
Alfred the butler normally has his moment in the spotlight in each and every big story-arc
IIRC there was an ongoing story back in the day about Blue Beetle being a bit fat and his efforts to lose weight.
.. now compare that to the female characters...
... we used to have Amanda Waller
who used to look like
-- great character, used to full affect in many memorable stories
and now.. well
oh look ! Supermodel build.
.. I appreciate this ( perhaps) is to do with the Gl film -- what a success that was eh ? -- but.. where are the even slightly non supermodel type female characters ?
Last one I can recall was Monstress
and that turned out well eh ?
I appreciate that -- see above ! -- we're in the realms of fiction and that people who are active, out and about, fighting crime etc etc are hardly going to be lard arses but some variety would be both nice and desirable perhaps ?
.. that said I guess we wouldn't have Femforce et al if this was true eh ?
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:04:32
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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reds8n wrote: I'd also point out we get 9 top of my head) The Thing, Hulk, Harvey Bullock, James Gordon, Plastic Man, Elongated Man...
Um ... you mean a bunch of monsters and a crooked, slobby cop? Also, I think this "super model" ideal is a bit silly. Men go crazy for both Audrey Hepburn and Marilyn Monroe. Kitty Pryde, She Hulk, Wonder Woman, and Batgirl are generally portrayed as having different body types. Just because they're all attractive doesn't mean that they're the same. The idea that a given female comic reader should recognize her own actual body type in her favorite comics is a strange idea. Certainly men have never requested the same. Most comic book characters, male and female, have attractive bodies where "attractive" has a fairly narrow definition for each sex.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/20 15:06:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:10:20
Subject: Re:The comic book discussion thread.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Manchu wrote:reds8n wrote: I'd also point out we get 9 top of my head) The Thing, Hulk, Harvey Bullock, James Gordon, Plastic Man, Elongated Man...
Um ... you mean a bunch of monsters and a crooked, slobby cop?.
.. all of whom are viewed as heroic despite not being good looking, a far cry from " evil, hideous, and otherwise vile.".
.. the female counterpart to this is..... ? ...
..maybe Lady Frankenstein I guess one could argue ? And even then -- physical additions and oddities aside ( plus the whole technically dead thing) -- she's pretty svelte.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:17:01
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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The Man of Steel trailer(s) looks quite good. Different. I hope we see more of the same from the actual movie.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:25:52
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Well, that's the trouble. You can still find a person who is eight foot tall and bright green attractive. The only one of those guys who is genuinely unattractive (I mean repulsive) is Harvey -- and he is portrayed as pretty vile. Anti-hero vile but still. But with the rest, even the Thing, we're talking about characters that are trim or beefy.
Does Skitter from Teen Titans count as too attractive for this contest?
There have been other monstrous female characters over the years and many of them have been at least somewhat sexy. Monstress is a good example. The problem is that this debate is meaningless from the beginning because it assumes that the sexualized portrayal of men and women should be the same. That's ridiculous. Men are generally sexy in a different way from how women are sexy.
Oh and if you're going to go on about Alfred and Jim Gordon, what about Aunt May? These guys aren't ugly or representative of diverse body types. They're just older.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:29:40
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Completely OT, but I have never seen that Robin outfit.
Is that Grayson or Drake wearing it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/20 15:31:28
Subject: The comic book discussion thread.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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That is Tim Drake as New 52 Red Robin.
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