The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**jy2**

Iechine wrote:
jy2 wrote:

Let me ask you....if you beat your wife in 40K, does she beat you in real life.

My wife is a fiery angry thing when it comes to competition so if I ever win believe me its amidst a lot of turmoil and personal cost.

Ahhh....nothing more scary than She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed.

Methinks she may be a Hive Tyrant in disguise.

**pinecone77**

Iechine wrote:
Game upstairs is still heated.

My LW/BS Tyrant instakilled her Riptide, but was itself instakilled her turn 3 by the knight. My Reaper flyrant got locked in with her Crisis Commander team but missed 4 out of 5 strikes. He's down to one wound as is the Crisis Commander.

My Lictor was captain badass and assaulted a Wave serpent getting 2 pens and a glance, not to mention he brought in a Mawloc on top of a Dire Avenger blob.

I'm really starting to love Lictors...

**PrinceRaven**

The question is how he managed to assault the Wave Serpent at all, did she forget to move it or did he manage to pull off a 12" charge?

**pinecone77**

Sounds good, I was going with Stealers so I could Outflank them and keep them out of sight for a while. I don't have a bastion...so I'll likely go with a small group of stealers and a respectable blob of Spinegaunts (those I have plenty of...)

Stealers x8 = 120
Spinegaunts x15 = 60

That should take up that last 10 points I had left over...

**tetrisphreak**

PrinceRaven wrote:
The question is how he managed to assault the Wave Serpent at all, did she forget to move it or did he manage to pull off a 12" charge?

a single lictor can easily infiltrate 12" if it hides from LOS. Then it's just a 6" move and 6" charge with fleet.

**jifel**

tetrisphreak wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
The question is how he managed to assault the Wave Serpent at all, did she forget to move it or did he manage to pull off a 12" charge?
a single lictor can easily infiltrate 12" if it hides from LOS. Then it's just a 6" move and 6" charge with fleet.

Well with LoS blocking you probably have to move at least an inch or two to get out from behind the LoS blocker if it was impassable.

Still, it's probably a fleet 8" charge or so.

**PrinceRaven**

tetrisphreak wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
The question is how he managed to assault the Wave Serpent at all, did she forget to move it or did he manage to pull off a 12" charge?
a single lictor can easily infiltrate 12" if it hides from LOS. Then it's just a 6" move and 6" charge with fleet.

Except you have to deploy them in terrain if you want them to survive, so that's not a guaranteed 6" move, and you have to wait until the next turn to charge, allowing your opponent to move away from you. Wave Serpents are Fast Skimmers, so they can move 18" a turn, so even if you deployed less than 2" away from them and got a 6" move, and they pivoted so that their hull was 2" closer to you after the move, you'd need a 12" charge to catch a Wave Serpent with a Lictor.

**felixcat**

My LW/BS Tyrant instakilled her Riptide, but was itself instakilled her turn 3 by the knight. My Reaper flyrant got locked in with her Crisis Commander team but missed 4 out of 5 strikes. He's down to one wound as is the Crisis Commander.

You want the Reaper Tyrant assaulting the WK always and the LW/BS to go against the Commander. My ReaperRant in mu skyblight list ( becuase i have three flyrants - two dakkarants) can often be my MVP. Mine is excruciatingly expensive though.

Flyrant, Reaper of Obliterax, Miasma Cannon, Shreddershard Beetles 280

This is the dual template flyrant that is circulating with skyblight because you have plenty of dakka from the other two flyrants, crones and harpies. The Reaper is strictly better against WKs - 40% more likely to ID it. That is the only real reason to take one over the LW/BS toxin/adrenal rant. I just posted my most recent outing with skyblight here.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/45878/testing-newest-formation-pretty?page=5

Middle of the page with a few inaccuracies because I was not taking pics.

**Speneticus**

jy2 wrote:
Iechine wrote:
jy2 wrote:

Let me ask you....if you beat your wife in 40K, does she beat you in real life.

My wife is a fiery angry thing when it comes to competition so if I ever win believe me its amidst a lot of turmoil and personal cost.

Ahhh....nothing more scary than She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed.

Methinks she may be a Hive Tyrant in disguise.

I would say a Dominatrix

**Unyielding Hunger**

Speneticus wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Iechine wrote:
jy2 wrote:

Let me ask you....if you beat your wife in 40K, does she beat you in real life.

My wife is a fiery angry thing when it comes to competition so if I ever win believe me its amidst a lot of turmoil and personal cost.

Ahhh....nothing more scary than She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed.

Methinks she may be a Hive Tyrant in disguise.

I would say a Dominatrix

Your both wrong. She's clearly a Norn Queen. Remember, shes got the kid to prove it. Which makes Lechine one of the few Norn Kings in existence.

**Gloomfang**

All I will say is that I am not happy that I found another way for gaunts to die tonight. Turns out I had been playing the IB rules wrong for units in fortifications.

I missed that how we now have to take IB checks in buildings now. Its not bad enough that horms get hungry without mommy. No. Our termigaunts have to go all Emo and jump off the top of bastions to their doom or (possibly) start screaming "game over man!" Before shooting themselves with their fleshborer...

Way to forge a narrative!

**tetrisphreak**

Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

**PrinceRaven**

That is not a rule that exists.

**Gloomfang**

tetrisphreak wrote:
Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

No they don't. They gain Fearless. IB is a test that uses leadership, not a Morale check. The rules for IB say when you have to check and when you don't. Being embarked in a fortification doesn't make you exempt (per IB rules). If you are saying that auto pass IB then psykers autopass PotW when embarked as well.

So if you roll a 1-3 for IB with a IB:Lurk unit then they break per IB, not per failing a morale check. They also have to move the required distance as IB says they have to make a Fall Back move just as if they had failed a morale check.

If someone can show me the rules around this I would love to see them so I can reference them if they come up again.

**Zande4**

Gloomfang wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

No they don't. They gain Fearless. IB is a test that uses leadership, not a Morale check. The rules for IB say when you have to check and when you don't. Being embarked in a fortification doesn't make you exempt (per IB rules). If you are saying that auto pass IB then psykers autopass PotW when embarked as well.

So if you roll a 1-3 for IB with a IB:Lurk unit then they break per IB, not per failing a morale check. They also have to move the required distance as IB says they have to make a Fall Back move just as if they had failed a morale check.

If someone can show me the rules around this I would love to see them so I can reference them if they come up again.

In the 5th Edition Tyranid FAQ it stated that Tyranids embarked in a building did not have to check for IB, however it no longer exist so now you do have to check until the new FAQ fixes it once again.

**badula**

I have a question... in my local group there are a lot of BA users and they often bring a furioso dreadnought....
the rule says it keeps attacking if he keeps wounding...

the question is: when he charges a 30x gaunts he usually kills those that are 2" from him.... can he go on killing those that were not partecipating in the fight rolling untill he stops wounding or after he has removed all those involved in that round he has to wait me to consolidate first?

**ruminator**

badula wrote:
I have a question... in my local group there are a lot of BA users and they often bring a furioso dreadnought....
the rule says it keeps attacking if he keeps wounding...

the question is: when he charges a 30x gaunts he usually kills those that are 2" from him.... can he go on killing those that were not partecipating in the fight rolling untill he stops wounding or after he has removed all those involved in that round he has to wait me to consolidate first?

Don't let it happen. A 30 strong gant squad with mixed weapons is going to cost a lot more than the dread. Use FMCs to fly over and shoot it from behind or get a tervigon with haywire template to step in front of the gants and kill it for them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PrinceRaven wrote:
The question is how he managed to assault the Wave Serpent at all, did she forget to move it or did he manage to pull off a 12" charge?

Agree. Only if already immobilised or you've 5 on the table and the wave serpent has to end up in range of at least one of them. I just don't see lictors killing fast vehicles unless the opponent makes a mistake and they're such east first blood fodder for them not to shoot at - especially cover ignoring units like ... waveserpents.

**xttz**

jy2 wrote:

xttz wrote:

1850 pts

That's way too many trygon primes. Have you no flyrants? I'd recommend the following:

1. Change out your walkrant for a flyrant.

2. Swap out 1 tryon prime for another flyrant.

3. Personally, I'd swap out the tyranid warriors for 10 gants and a zoan or venom. Then drop a coupld more stuff to get a bastion as well. Now you can put either the zoan, venom or unit of 3 warriors into the bastion.

The first line of my post said I'm trying to avoid a FMC-based build and stick to ground units. I do have 1 Flyrant, but I'm specifically trying to avoid using it. Plus, a single FMC isn't all that hard to bring down, they're mostly strong in numbers.

I'm concerned that if I drop any Warriors that's less Synapse, which could really be an issue by the late-game. Zoanthropes aren't hard to pick out.

I could drop a Trygon for another Walkrant, or even the Swarmlord. The latter would add reserve bonuses to bring the Primes on quicker, better psychics and his free PE buff. Not sure if he'd even reach the other side of the table, though. Rolling Catalyst on one of the HQ's (letting me give FNP to both) would be a huge benefit.

What about a Aegis/Bastion with a Comms Relay? That plus a Walkrant is cheaper than the Swarmlord for something arguably more useful.

This may be better:

New List: 1848 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard
2. Hive Tyrant* (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (40pts)
- 10x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime

----- Endless Swarm ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Hormaguant Brood (98pts)
- 14x Hormaguant
- 14x Adrenal Glands (28pts)
3. Hormaguant Brood (75pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
4. Hormaguant Brood (75pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
5. Termagant Brood (80pts)
- 20x Termagant
6. Termagant Brood (80pts)
- 20x Termagant

----- Fortification --------------------

1. Bastion (95pts)
- 1x Bastion
- 1x Comms Relay

**PrinceRaven**

badula wrote:
I have a question... in my local group there are a lot of BA users and they often bring a furioso dreadnought....
the rule says it keeps attacking if he keeps wounding...

the question is: when he charges a 30x gaunts he usually kills those that are 2" from him.... can he go on killing those that were not partecipating in the fight rolling untill he stops wounding or after he has removed all those involved in that round he has to wait me to consolidate first?

Hmm, it's an interesting situation. I would think that as soon as the Dreadnought has killed all models in b2b it is no longer engaged with the Termagants, and can't make any further attacks (though the rest of wounds would be allocated as normal).

**xttz**

PrinceRaven wrote:
badula wrote:
I have a question... in my local group there are a lot of BA users and they often bring a furioso dreadnought....
the rule says it keeps attacking if he keeps wounding...

the question is: when he charges a 30x gaunts he usually kills those that are 2" from him.... can he go on killing those that were not partecipating in the fight rolling untill he stops wounding or after he has removed all those involved in that round he has to wait me to consolidate first?

Hmm, it's an interesting situation. I would think that as soon as the Dreadnought has killed all models in b2b it is no longer engaged with the Termagants, and can't make any further attacks (though the rest of wounds would be allocated as normal).

BRB wrote:If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model. If several enemy models are the same distance away,then their controlling player chooses which is allocated the Wound, as above.

Once a model has a Wound allocated to it, you must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the Wound pool is empty. Note that it is possible for all of the models in the target unit to be hit, wounded and killed, including those that are not engaged.

I would interpret to mean that once it starts, the Dread can keep going forever (on the assumption enemies are continuously charging into it). It is already classed as being engaged in combat from the start of it's initiative step, the extra attacks occur as part of that action.

**PrinceRaven**

So you'd say that when there are no enemies in base to base it is still engaged for the duration of that initiative step? I'd probably play it that way anyway, Blood Angels need all the help they can get in 6th.

**rigeld2**

Yes, a blender can blend an entire unit of 30 gants.
Hit him with any kind of MC.

**tetrisphreak**

Gloomfang wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

No they don't. They gain Fearless. IB is a test that uses leadership, not a Morale check. The rules for IB say when you have to check and when you don't. Being embarked in a fortification doesn't make you exempt (per IB rules). If you are saying that auto pass IB then psykers autopass PotW when embarked as well.

So if you roll a 1-3 for IB with a IB:Lurk unit then they break per IB, not per failing a morale check. They also have to move the required distance as IB says they have to make a Fall Back move just as if they had failed a morale check.

If someone can show me the rules around this I would love to see them so I can reference them if they come up again.

Wow. You're right. I had played with the FAQ for so long I'd gotten used to the idea that embarked nids were free from synapse.

So this does in essence break the game without an FAQ. what happens to a unit falling back Ina building ? What if the door isn't facing the board edge? This makes the termagants/venomthrope in a box less reliable without synapse. Man warriors are looking more and more like list requirements.

**rigeld2**

I HATE RANDOM CHARGE LENGTHS!

Sorry. Had to get that out there. Played a Necron opponent last night. My turn 1 I attempt 3 charges (he moved up).

Warlord -> Anni Barge. 6" charge, roll 2.
Flyrant -> Immortals. ~6" charge, roll 5.
Tervigon -> Anni Barge. 10" charge, roll 9.

The Tervigon I shouldn't have made and I get that. Wasn't planning on it. But the other two left my Flyrants grounded and chilling in the open when what should've happened is I popped 2 Barges. His T2 both Flyrants died and my Tervigon took 4 wounds (more abysmal rolling for armor saves). I was tabled at the top of T4. (1k point game).

**ductvader**

No fleet?

I never leave home without adrenals.

**xttz**

tetrisphreak wrote:
Gloomfang wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

No they don't. They gain Fearless. IB is a test that uses leadership, not a Morale check. The rules for IB say when you have to check and when you don't. Being embarked in a fortification doesn't make you exempt (per IB rules). If you are saying that auto pass IB then psykers autopass PotW when embarked as well.

So if you roll a 1-3 for IB with a IB:Lurk unit then they break per IB, not per failing a morale check. They also have to move the required distance as IB says they have to make a Fall Back move just as if they had failed a morale check.

If someone can show me the rules around this I would love to see them so I can reference them if they come up again.

Wow. You're right. I had played with the FAQ for so long I'd gotten used to the idea that embarked nids were free from synapse.

So this does in essence break the game without an FAQ. what happens to a unit falling back Ina building ? What if the door isn't facing the board edge? This makes the termagants/venomthrope in a box less reliable without synapse. Man warriors are looking more and more like list requirements.

This probably requires its own review in YMDC, but here's how I see it.

Until we get a new FAQ, you roll for instinctive behaviour as normal when in a building. However, being inside a transport grants Fearless. So...

Feed
1-3 Is applied as normal
4-5 Buildings aren't assault transports, so you can't legally declare a charge here. The unit can't do anything this turn.
6 Has no real effect

Hunt
1-3 This result specifically says that Fearless models ignore it, and to use the next one instead.
4-5 You can't run, but who cares. The unit still has to shoot the nearest enemy, though.
6 Takes effect as normal

Lurk
1-3 This is where it gets fun!

BRB wrote:A unit that is falling back must attempt to Regroup by taking a Regroup test in their Movement phase just before they move.

BRB wrote:Units containing one or more models with the Fearless special rule automatically pass Pinning, Fear and Regroup tests

Therefore the unit acts as if it fails a morale check, but as it's still within the building ans therefore Fearless, it has to regroup before it moves. It therefore automatically passes the regroup test and doesn't have to move, but is treated as having regrouped that turn and therefore follows the normal rules for that.
4-5 You can shoot, as you're within a building
6 Has no effect

**rigeld2**

ductvader wrote:
No fleet?

I never leave home without adrenals.

60 point "tax" I've almost always regretted taking. (15 x4 MCs).

**Gloomfang**

xttz wrote:

Lurk
1-3 This is where it gets fun!

BRB wrote:A unit that is falling back must attempt to Regroup by taking a Regroup test in their Movement phase just before they move.

BRB wrote:Units containing one or more models with the Fearless special rule automatically pass Pinning, Fear and Regroup tests

Therefore the unit acts as if it fails a morale check, but as it's still within the building ans therefore Fearless, it has to regroup before it moves. It therefore automatically passes the regroup test and doesn't have to move, but is treated as having regrouped that turn and therefore follows the normal rules for that.

You only get to make a Re-Group check if you are already Falling Back at the start of your movement phase. Not sure on the timing of the Fallback as the rules for IB looks like you must make the Fall Back move as soon as you roll the 1-3 on the Lurk table. Might need to do something in YMDC.

**tetrisphreak**

rigeld2 wrote:
ductvader wrote:
No fleet?

I never leave home without adrenals.

60 point "tax" I've almost always regretted taking. (15 x4 MCs).

It's something i've used on flyrants to get a better swooping onslaught, but every now and then it really comes in handy when making a key charge mid-to-late game. Maybe not worth it on tervigons, as they're primarily support units now that only assault targets of opportunity.

**ductvader**

tetrisphreak wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
ductvader wrote:
No fleet?

I never leave home without adrenals.

60 point "tax" I've almost always regretted taking. (15 x4 MCs).

It's something i've used on flyrants to get a better swooping onslaught, but every now and then it really comes in handy when making a key charge mid-to-late game. Maybe not worth it on tervigons, as they're primarily support units now that only assault targets of opportunity.

Agreed...its a necessity for me with tyrants.