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 ImAGeek wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

Sunhero wrote:
Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters

This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.

I know. I really don't get why genuine complaints are just dismissed in this game.

In their "defense", it's limited at all to 40k and its fandom as the same thing happens with all games and just gets worse when things are in a downward spiral. I've seen the same thing in Palladium games and Heavy Gear to name just two recent examples.

Nocturnus wrote:
I think they are deflecting people's attention away from Serpents with the new Scatriders.....

... I see what you did there.

Sunhero wrote:
Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters

where are you going to hide 40+ jet bikes.
Do you know whats going to happen if they even get touched by a moderate close combat unit, and they will get charged you cant put 40 bikes in place where they aren't going to get charged their's not enough room on the table.

Currently you can get a war walker with two scatter lasers, fleet and battle focus for 70pts or two sc for 60pts
you can't turbo boost but if you do that you cant fire.

So you paying (3-8) pts more per gun but you get a much more durable unit that is also fearless.
are war walkers currently tearing up the meta?

I'm not denying that their good units but their not going to ruin the tournament scene single single-handedly.

I think you should wait till you have played a few games before you throw your toys out the pram.

LOL lovely attitude. Scatriders are infinitely better than Warwalkers. And you can't run units of 40. It will be quite easy to hide units of 5-8. And what about Farseer jetbike antics. Guide, Doom, Presience. All very powerful. Plus, as was pointed out: Objective Secured. I think you fail to grasp all that is Scatriders.


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 Marsyas wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I think they are deflecting people's attention away from Serpents with the new Scatriders.....

... I see what you did there.

LOL but it's true. There has been almost no talk of Serpent Shields since the Jetbike fiasco began....

I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.

Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?

Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.

Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?

Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.

Personally, that's why I keep calling that "Scatriders"...

Nocturnus wrote:


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 Marsyas wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I think they are deflecting people's attention away from Serpents with the new Scatriders.....

... I see what you did there.

LOL but it's true. There has been almost no talk of Serpent Shields since the Jetbike fiasco began....

Thats because we have not seen the new WS rules... for better or worse.

Also, this is probably the first new release leak that is dominated by new rule talk and not design/modeling aspects/prize hike.

 pretre wrote:
I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.

T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.

Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?

Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.

Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?

Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.

Oh I thought people were calling them scat riders because it works in both ways. It is so appropriate.

The only thing annoying about scatbikes is that they can claim objectives halfway across the board and are obsec on top.

But if you just look at attack/defense, a warwalker is better than 2 scatbikes (and warwalkers have been around for a long time now) even if it costs a little more...2HP = 2 wounds, AV10 > T4, 5++ = 3+ in today's meta. And if the bikes jink they cant hurt gak in the next turn anyways.

You realise for that to be true, that means that bikes would need to get MORE, BETTER rules in the special detachment?

A lot of other armies don't get a lot from Objective Secured. Obsec on slow troops units or ranged combat units doesn't really get you anything - if the enemy is contesting the objective your troops are on, they can probably kill you anyway.
Eldar on the other hand, especially jetbikes, are ridiculously mobile and can reach essentially anywhere on the table. Being able to reach out from 48" away to grab any objective with Obsec units on the bottom of the last turn means that Eldar with Obsec can dominate any objective based mission so long as they have 2 bikes left alive. Obsec is obscenely powerful on Eldar Jetbikes.


EDIT: Warwalkers are already fantastic. Its just that waveserpents (currently) do their job better. When you consider that 'only annoying thing' instead as 'a game-winning ability regardless of how much damage you do to them or they do to you'...

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.

T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.

Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?

Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.

You don't need to jink if you jsj out of Los or range. And I think obsec will be a strong contender. If the formation/detachments are better, that's even better for the bikes. I'll cede you t5, RP and l10 though.


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Firig after jink isn't effective but they still can, unlike units with blasts.

Contesting doesn't win games, holding does. If obsec was going to be the name of the game for eldar, the bikes would already be dominating the meta because their ability to do what you say hasn't changed.

The only buff they got was the ability to take a special weapon on every bike. Nobody complained about their killing potential before, and most tourney lists utilizing them didn't upgrade the gun because they were throwing them away to claim maelstrom objectives. If you are rushing forward to claim objectives every turn with your obsec bikes, your 36" range means jack because the only way that bonus would matter would be if I was on the objective you're trying to take. If you and I are both within. 3" of an objective at the end of your turn, you can say good bye to those bikes.

Also, don't forget that only the models that can see can overwatch. Charge a couple bikes that are sticking out around a corner and you REALLY limit their firepower on overwatch.

You don't have to rush forward just as you don't have to jink.

Even if you don't use it all the time, it is still an advantage over tomb blades.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Hopefully they've done something finally for Banshees.

Banshees got a huge buff. It was the Dark Eldar formation that lets ally in 6 raiders.

wait... did anyone see that serpent shields are now twin linked without scatter lasers? Thus removing the need for laser lock...

I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)

They are the most advanced technologically speaking in the galaxy?

Craftworld Eldar are no more advanced than the Dark Eldar. They're the same race with access to the same technology. Both based on ancient Eldar technology during their reign.

Has there been anympre rumours?

 Swabby wrote:
They are the most advanced technologically speaking in the galaxy?

No, Necrons are. Yet they aren't even toting around srength D.

Bojazz wrote:
Craftworld Eldar are no more advanced than the Dark Eldar. They're the same race with access to the same technology. Both based on ancient Eldar technology during their reign.

Not quite. Dark Eldar don't have (or use) wraith technology, which was developed after the Fall. Hence no eyeless models, or half-spirit-half-living titans. Also, regular Eldar don't get all the good recreational drugs, so none of those buffs there. And they aren't into S&M, so no FNP after the first turn (or the other cool buffs).


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 krodarklorr wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
They are the most advanced technologically speaking in the galaxy?

No, Necrons are. Yet they aren't even toting around srength D.

Don't worry. Next Christmas there will be a strength D giant sphinx that wakes up from a planet somewhere that is a $150 model. With 36" Ranged D. That gets better buffs if you play them in a super formation of 3. And a weapon that you can only get as a forgeworld bit. RAWR!

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.

Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?

Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.

Actually, with my encyclopedic knowledge of forgotten musical acts from the 90's, this was my first thought.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.

T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.

Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?

Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.

I believe you will mostly see CAD eldar in tournaments. Tournament missions are heavily based on objectives now. A lot of them have gone to maelstrom style missions. 36" + 2D6 move with obsec is really good. Without obsec, you better hope you can shoot them off that objective. Also, you don't pay a vyper tax, you don't need a spiritseer, wraith lord and 2 extra units of wraithguard you don't want just to bring 1 unit of wraithguard you do want, etc. Unless the formation bonus is even more OP than necrons, I doubt it will see much play on top tables.

Windriders...

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Windriders...

Bit late to the party mate.

Trasvi wrote:
.....Eldar on the other hand, especially jetbikes, are ridiculously mobile and can reach essentially anywhere on the table. Being able to reach out from 48" away.....

We heard it here first. Scatriders are the best at reach-arounds.

Wow, what a drama. And seriously, no one (or maybe I missed it in the waves of tears) is interested in the Jetbikes as an upgrade option for Warlocks and Farseers? This is where the balance breaks because you can easily negate your inherent weakness(es) of your psykers with a Jetbike which gives you so much usefulness, so much toughness added (not only the one stat in the line!)...don't know why nobody is talking about it. See the Eldar lists from the last years - Farseer on foot, without planning to deploy in a Serpent? Nope! Why? Because 15 points-Jetbike is way too cheap for a HQ-model and therefore an auto-include. This bugs me actually even more than the Windrider's buff and I do play Eldar. That being said, if the Jetbike was like 30 points for the Seer, maybe 20 or 25 for the Warlock, you'd at least double check if you can afford this sum and if you really need the bike. Given that quick jetbikes need to be followed somehow by your Farseer if you want to buff them properly (LoS, some short-ranged blessings, short-ranged maledictions on enemy units like Misfortune...), GW should have vastly increased the costs for the Farseer's and a bit for Warlock's jetbikes.

It may be b/c we don't know what the costs will be for Farseers at this point.

"we don't have enough info yet.............." - apart from the stats and unit composition - what more is needed?

Same thing was said about Cheese Serpents in the last Codex came out - good job it got fixed quickly - oh wait...........it didn't

GW don't care enough to fix issues like this in FAQs or anything. If these units are broken as hell - which they appear to be - nothing will happen except:

A few people will say its fair and balanced whilst fielding the most cheese they can and decrying anyone who questions it as "crying" and say LTP whilst bigging up their "skill" at choosing the most broken units.

Most people will find it extremely distasteful on both sides, play less or with more specific rules / formal or informal army restrictions.

Some people will just plain give up on the game.

Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special

Good question - and why exactly do they get a +2 bonus to armour saves - the 3+ armour save should be for the Aspect warrior version?

Well, but we know what it is for the Warlocks - just like it has been the last editions. Would be a very big surprise or rather a precedence in Eldar-view if GW does adjust the jetbike-price only for several units after the cost was all the same.