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Jerram wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A British man who spat at police and claimed to be infected has been jailed for a year.

WTH is wrong with people, what was he convicted of ? Assault or some terrorist threat related crime ?

A holes are gonna a hole I guess. Just read a story about someone deliberately coughing in a paramedics facehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-52083425 and he's been charged with assaulting an emergency worker.

Saturday at work was a lot less stressful with the shutters down. I was half expecting people to knock on the back door or peer into the office windows though. Thankfully I was proved wrong

Still no word on who is getting furloughed. But nearly all the trades are closing there doors this weekend or Monday so there wont be much point to opening. I suppose the worst case scenario is I have to sit in the office, drink tea, listen to Six Music and play games on my phone all day.

Common Assault laws working as intended.

Also Emergency workers have been specifically covered for a number of years so Priti Patel shouldn't be claiming any credit for getting 'tough'.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/29/823497607/u-s-sees-exponential-growth-in-coronavirus-death-toll
Yikes

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody is really putting too much effort into enforcing them to be fair, I can walk around town I want all day and I'm not going to get asked for my papers. Thus far, the only enforcement I've seen is shutting down of large gatherings and slapping additional charges on people doing stupid stuff that already had generated large rap sheets

That said, there doesn't appear to be too much significant enforcement needed, people do appear to mostly generally be voluntarily adhering to the restrictions.

Same here, which incidentally is gerat for once seeing the people working together for the most part.

Here as well, from what I have seen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ced1106 wrote:
Checked the last few pages and didn't see it, but the CDC *now* says that masks do help. Current recommendation is for the elderly and high-risk.

"NEW: CDC guidance on masks expected to change in next 10 days. Americans will be advised to wear masks in everyday life. Current recommendation is for high-risk groups only."

https://twitter.com/DrMattMcCarthy/status/1243891663162019841

Yeah, like you can get a mask now. Time for the scarves and old t-shirts.

Of course they help. They are not complete protection of course but saying they do not even help was always stupid.

Edit: Not saying the CDC said they do not help at all.

 ced1106 wrote:
Checked the last few pages and didn't see it, but the CDC *now* says that masks do help. Current recommendation is for the elderly and high-risk.

"NEW: CDC guidance on masks expected to change in next 10 days. Americans will be advised to wear masks in everyday life. Current recommendation is for high-risk groups only."

https://twitter.com/DrMattMcCarthy/status/1243891663162019841

Yeah, like you can get a mask now. Time for the scarves and old t-shirts.

I don't use Twitter so someone who does please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears the actual CDC responded to this and said this is not true.

CDC
@CDCgov
·
Mar 28
Replying to
@DrMattMcCart
CDC does not have updated guidance scheduled to come out on this topic. See current CDC guidance regarding the use of facemasks

(the link has doesn't include facemask usage for the general public unless you are caring for someone sick or are sick yourself, just as before).

Jerram wrote:
@RiTides, I agree nothing wrong with requesting, just a question of what does the government have the legal authority to do. Heck I haven't left the house in almost 2 weeks and that was a special circumstance.

@ Aegis There's a legitimate concern that government has a habit of expanding its authorities during extreme circumstances then continue using those powers where they shouldn't really apply, but I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole since it could turn partisan quick, so ask me when you have good reason, sure I'm all in. Order me to when you dont have the authority, long walk, short pier.

@ Jihadin yeah my sister's a truck driver, between that and my son who works in a hospital, no Im not really a fan of those breaking voluntary quarantine for recreational activities


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A British man who spat at police and claimed to be infected has been jailed for a year.

WTH is wrong with people, what was he convicted of ? Assault or some terrorist threat related crime ?

They introduced a new law (or was it tweeked an existing one) making it a crime to threaten people with corona virus after several nasty pieces of work claiming to be infected coughed and spat at police during other interactions/arrests, so this is obviously the first use of the new law

maliciously spitting at someone should be a more serious offence anyway..god knows what people could have got in this day and age..plus its just straight foul. throw a punch, dont spit like an absolute creature.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

Jerram wrote:
@RiTides, I agree nothing wrong with requesting, just a question of what does the government have the legal authority to do. Heck I haven't left the house in almost 2 weeks and that was a special circumstance.

@ Aegis There's a legitimate concern that government has a habit of expanding its authorities during extreme circumstances then continue using those powers where they shouldn't really apply, but I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole since it could turn partisan quick, so ask me when you have good reason, sure I'm all in. Order me to when you dont have the authority, long walk, short pier.

@ Jihadin yeah my sister's a truck driver, between that and my son who works in a hospital, no Im not really a fan of those breaking voluntary quarantine for recreational activities


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A British man who spat at police and claimed to be infected has been jailed for a year.

WTH is wrong with people, what was he convicted of ? Assault or some terrorist threat related crime ?

They introduced a new law (or was it tweeked an existing one) making it a crime to threaten people with corona virus after several nasty pieces of work claiming to be infected coughed and spat at police during other interactions/arrests, so this is obviously the first use of the new law

They introduced some changes to legislation. But was already covered under assault laws in the UK specifically common assault (I think).

In the US, as was mentioned earlier, this would be considered transmitting a terroristic threat. Kind of surprised you didn't already have something on the books already.

Spitting on people - who even does that???

 Ouze wrote:
In the US, as was mentioned earlier, this would be considered transmitting a terroristic threat. Kind of surprised you didn't already have something on the books already.

Spitting on people - who even does that???

Normally is covered by assault.

As for the spitting thing,you'd be surprised.

So, some updates:

People in Wuhan that have been cleared have been re-infected.

in the US: Trump said the federal government’s guidelines for social distancing would remain in place until April 30, backing away from his original suggestion of ending them by Easter.

 Ouze wrote:
So, some updates:

People in Wuhan that have been cleared have been re-infected.

in the US: Trump said the federal government’s guidelines for social distancing would remain in place until April 30, backing away from his original suggestion of ending them by Easter.

Well over here the meassures are atleast to be expected to be in place until the middle of May

We've been hearing of the re-infections for at least a week and don't seem to be getting any closer to an answer at present. It seems to be a mix of trying to work out if its real re-infection or if the tests have an error margin that is clearing people who are not yet clear.

It also raises the question of test accuracy which is a big concern since if the test might potentially result in clear for 10% or so of people who have the disease then that's a significant portion of a population who might resume normal life to a degree considering themselves "clean" and thus going home/visiting "clean" family etc...


As for the USA situation that's no surprise. For once Trumps bluster is going to be purely just that. Heck I'd be surprised if the UK can give up by the 30th and far as I'm aware we are further along than the USA (ish given that its not actually a purely linear progression nor a "race" as such)

Well, I mostly posted that because I suspect major employers will take their cues for reopening from guidance from the federal government. Without getting into the political weeds, lets just stipulate Easter was... premature and leave it there.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
So, some updates:

People in Wuhan that have been cleared have been re-infected.

in the US: Trump said the federal government’s guidelines for social distancing would remain in place until April 30, backing away from his original suggestion of ending them by Easter.

Well over here the measures are at least to be expected to be in place until the middle of May

Given the way things are going here in the the USA, and how they're likely to be around April 30...

...I think we'll still be in "Stay at Home" mode well into May.

...and some of you will still have unpainted minis.

The test has a high false negative rate due ( at least partly) to user error . The wife works on a Itu ward , apparently they are sometimes testing patients that are obviously coved positive up to 3 times before getting a positive result .

I’ve seen a video on how to do the test and it looks difficult , especially if your patient isn’t unconscious . It’s also in no way a normal test method and they have had no training in how to do it ( the video was one she found herself on the internet) . So you will have literally thousands of hospital staff taking swabs in the normal , incorrect fashion

From what I've read of the "reinfection", there are a lot of possible explanations (initial or subsequent false positive, residual rna of the virus causing a positive result even if clear, inaccurate tests, etc). Dr. Fauci recently stated how confident he is that people who have been infected are strongly protected against the virus, and that it should behave like any other in that regard.

All that to say, I think that's one thing at least that people should not stress over. It needs studies to confirm, of course, but probabilities are massively on the side of normal immunity.

I don't use Twitter so someone who does please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears the actual CDC responded to this and said this is not true.

Okay, good to know. Not that you can get mask (or not make one yourself) in ten days, anyway.

*****

"A 19-year-old Italian chef has died after a doctor reportedly told him he had ‘nothing to worry about’, with his family suspecting coronavirus played a part in his death. ... They believe he may have had Covid-19, although this has not yet been confirmed by medics and the family say they are awaiting post-mortem swab results. ... The doctor visited him at home and told him that he was young, strong and that he didn’t have to worry about that bad flu.’
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/healthy-chef-19-dies-suspected-coronavirus-case-12475790/?ITO=squi

Belgian nurse (30) dies after coronavirus strikes the heart: 'Isaura was perfectly healthy' : https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/belgische-verpleegster-30-overlijdt-nadat-coronavirus-toeslaat-op-hart-isaura-was-kerngezond~acc0fd05/

Cardiologists are seeing infected patients whose worst symptoms are not respiratory, but cardiac. : https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/health/coronavirus-cardiac-heart-attacks.html

14-year old, healthy, Portugal: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/vitor-godinho-o-jovem-jogador-de-futsal-que-morreu-hoje-infetado-com-coronavirus

35-year old, healthy. Georgia, USA. Waiting ten days for test results. : https://new.reddit.com/r/Wuhan_Flu/comments/fraza7/a_healthy_35_year_olds_case/

*****

As for the testing kits, I've read about so many articles about faulty testing kits, I'm pretty ambivalent about them.

 Ouze wrote:
...and some of you will still have unpainted minis.

Thanks. I needed that

What ever state official yelling about the ventilators not working. Its military owned so its Mil Spec. Those are the coupling and connecters (quick disconnects). I read somewhere that a Anathesiologist (sp) has like 9 patients hooked to one.

Not sure if this was mention. The virus can be dormant and I think, last I heard, it has mutated 4 times now?

 Jihadin wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
...and some of you will still have unpainted minis.

Thanks. I needed that

What ever state official yelling about the ventilators not working. Its military owned so its Mil Spec. Those are the coupling and connecters (quick disconnects). I read somewhere that a Anathesiologist (sp) has like 9 patients hooked to one.

Not sure if this was mention. The virus can be dormant and I think, last I heard, it has mutated 4 times now?

Where did you hear/read that?

Here's some links on what people are seeing so far:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/25/820998549/the-coronavirus-is-mutating-but-that-may-not-be-a-problem-for-humans

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/27/scientists-track-coronavirus-strains-mutation/5080571002/

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490033-newsom-170-ventilators-sent-from-federal-government-arrived-not-working

Sorry. Should have researched that. Thanks Alpha

Here's the nine vent as one
https://interestingengineering.com/canadian-doctor-rigs-ventilator-to-treat-nine-patients-instead-of-just-one

 Ouze wrote:
...and some of you will still have unpainted minis.

As I told some of the people around here, if there's enough time for me to paint my entire pile, you're all fethed beyond belief.

 Jihadin wrote:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490033-newsom-170-ventilators-sent-from-federal-government-arrived-not-working

Sorry. Should have researched that. Thanks Alpha

Here's the nine vent as one
https://interestingengineering.com/canadian-doctor-rigs-ventilator-to-treat-nine-patients-instead-of-just-one

That's an impressive feat - but let's hope it doesn't come down to that for many - or even any! Though I fear it might yet.

I keep hearing that the challenge in 'splitting' a ventilator is that a patient on one often needs to utilize customized settings, and I'm not sure how possible that will be on split machines...

France has officially sanction Chloroquine for treatment, 78 of 80 patients that were treated with it in studies recovered within 5 days vs 14 days for those who did not receive treatment with it: https://www.dailywire.com/news/france-officially-sanctions-drug-after-78-of-80-patients-recover-from-covid-19-within-five-days

USA has followed suit with the FDA issuing emergency authorization to use the same: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/29/fda-emergency-authorization-anti-malaria-drug-155095

I think it was a good move. Its an old drug with well known side effects and low inherent risk as a result. If it works, then great, if it turns out that the lack of controlled study resulted in misleading outcomes for patients then oh well, chances are we haven't done anymore harm by attempting to treat people with it (then again, a friend of mine who is a medical professional rightly pointed out that Chloroquine and related are actually immunosuppressive and there is high risk that using it will open the door for worse effects, so I guess we'll see what happens?)

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Sounds like Trump is considering locking down NY, NJ and parts of CT. As somebody who lives near the NY border and in the obvious quarantine area...good. It should be locked down. I would happily follow a 2 week, don’t leave the house, quarantine if it was helpful. The fact that people can’t seem to handle that is the reason this spreads.

According to cell phone data, it seems that NYC/NJ/CT residents are currently the least active (i.e. the most likely to stay indoors and limit travels, etc.) and most likely to be following distancing protocols. Thats downright scary to me given how many people I see out and about just not "getting it". I suspect some of it might have to do with the fact that the region is generally "denser" and people don't have to travel as far on average to do what they need to do, so even though people are out and about the cell phone data is still showing them as traveling less than someone in, say, Kansas where the local supermarket may be a 30 minute drive down the highway.

Its several days too late. It still needs to be done, but Cuomo should have taken this measure earlier- people were fleeing the city in large numbers last weekend, meaning an unknown number of infected headed to unknown locations. Its one of the worst possible (and most predictable) things people do in epidemics, and makes the whole situation worse, as it jumpstarts the infection cycle in new locations.

Yep. It's probably too late for it to make a difference, but it should still be done. It should also be maintained long-term, not just for the protection of the rest of the country, but for the protection of these states as well. A large number of states are still not taking action against the virus, some of them will become hotspots themselves in time. NJ/NYC/CT can't risk reinfection because someone from Indiana decided it would be really cool to take advantage of cheap travel rates and tour NYC and carry the virus back into town with them once everything is under control. Don't even get me started about the reports of megachurches in Florida and Louisiana rounding up their congregations for Sunday mass. It was a horrible idea when that church in South Korea did it, its a horrible idea when they do it too.

No idea why Cuomo believes it wouldn't be legally enforceable. They're in a state of medical emergency and drawing on various wartime laws to deal with it. Physically doing quarantining a city seems far more difficult, and NYC is one of the easiest cities in the country to block off, with bridges and chokepoints instead of the usual endless web of city roads in a 360 degree circle.

That depends on what part of NYC you're referring to. Manhattan and Staten Island are pretty easy, Queens and Brooklyn a bit less so as its still easy to get out into Long Island (unless you're including it in the quarantine area) and catch a ferry out to CT or RI. The Bronx is on the "mainland" still a limited number of routes that people can take but its a very dense area and you'd need to dedicate serious manpower to enforcing a blockade.

It's an American attitude problem....or...quirk, maybe?. We tend, as a group, to see every little restriction on us as chafing or conspiratory.

Sometimes a national mindset like that is good, sometimes bad. The problem with something largely invisible like a virus is the constant need for fearful people to look for some focal point for blame, to establish something definite in a nebulous situation. All I know is that things are getting severely worrisome here in the US, because everything seems like such a clusterfeth and us people at ground-level in our houses can really only be reactionary.

If the illness was disfiguring or the symptoms were more obviously visible and unique somehow, you can bet people would be taking this a lot more seriously and much more willing to be compliant with stricter actions to control movement.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490033-newsom-170-ventilators-sent-from-federal-government-arrived-not-working

Sorry. Should have researched that. Thanks Alpha

Here's the nine vent as one
https://interestingengineering.com/canadian-doctor-rigs-ventilator-to-treat-nine-patients-instead-of-just-one

That's an impressive feat - but let's hope it doesn't come down to that for many - or even any! Though I fear it might yet.

I keep hearing that the challenge in 'splitting' a ventilator is that a patient on one often needs to utilize customized settings, and I'm not sure how possible that will be on split machines...

Pretty sure something like that (blue print, diagram, instructions, whatever) making its way around all medical facilities across the world. Something like that though it seriously has to be monitored 24/7. Still though. That guy needs the Nobel for pulling that off

Edit

I be back on tomorrow to post updates on whatever I think is not rumored or third to forth party. We start 12 hrs shift tomorrow

The UK's Mercedes Formula One team and University College London have engineered a new respirator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52087002

It's being trialled in London hospitals, and will go into mass production in a week, if it performs well. Mercedes will manufacture 1,000 machines a day.

That's amazing!

Its not a new respirator as far as I'm aware, just regular CPAP machines. theyre just smashing them out super quick. at least thats what I got from the BBC news this morning.

It's been re-engineered for mass production, from an out of patent old design. So it's not a new principle, but it's a new improvement of the principle.

In related news, a group including Airbus have another machine ready to go when it gets approval.

When I think about it, the government should have commssioned Dyson to produce pressurised protective equipment for intensive care staff. All he needs to do is take a battery powered hoover, upgrade the filter, and make a tube to link the output to a diver's helmet.

(baleted)