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yakface wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:So based on Yakface's (generous) postings relating to the new book I have surmised the following:

Crypteks and Lords only have 2 base attacks each (sergeant stats) while Overlords have probably 3 or (not likely) 4 base attacks on their profile.

2 Destroyer overlords, then, with warscythes, charging will decimate just about any 10 man or less MEQ squad it hits, having T 6, 3 W per model (assuming), with the 2+/3++ save the phase shifter and other gear provides. Now with no points posted we can't say this is the killer HQ option because it precludes any of the nifty special characters, but it adds a much needed CC punch to my existing necron force - I will probably convert one of my 8 destroyers to another destroyer lord (with spare bits from the new minis) and then actually re-attach my heavy destroyer bits to a couple others.

It doesn't seem i missed out by not having a destroyerwing after all...I feel sorry for those people who did buy a lot in the last iteration. Hopefully you can all find some buyers on D. swap shop or ebay and replace those minis with some of the new ones.

Sorry, but one of the wargear items that Destroyer Lords can't take is the Phase Shifter. They can boost their save to 2+, but they can't get the 3++ like standard Overlords can.

Aw, okay. Thanks Yakface! Is a 4++ possible however, or do they simply crumple to powerfists and the like?


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Medium of Death wrote:From which divine font are you getting this information?

Yakface rumors, plus swarms have the Stealth USR in the BRB.

Medium of Death wrote:From which divine font are you getting this information?

I think he has a playtest dex?

yakface wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that keeping the Royal Court together could be a nice little unit.

Keep it simple and just take 5 Crypteks and give them the Harbinger of Destruction upgrade (which gets them the 36" S8 Assault1 Eldritch Lance shooting), and of course throw one solar pulse in there because its too good to pass up and you have a nice little AT unit, that can move and shoot 5 S8 shots and of course has the ability to apply night fighting to one of your opponent's turns with the solar pulse. All for just a hair under 200 points.

Not Long Fang good obviously, but in an army that doesn't have too much long(ish) range AT besides the Doomsday Ark, it seems like they fit a nice niche.

Especially if you had that special character that gives out special rules to friendly units, you could totally set them up each turn to effectively have S9 shots against vehicles!

I'm Guessing that's Illuminor Szeras, with his Augmentations? I reread through Nemesor, and didn't see anything, But I could easily have missed it.

That sounds really strong though. There seems to be a lot of S8-10 Weaponry in the army, it's just not concentrated on single models like Psyriflemen, or Longfangs. Perhaps that's the big issue people are having trouble seeing as far as Anti-Tank goes.

hollowmirror wrote:
The thing we can't really determine is the strength of our anti-tank, will be until we know the exact wording of the entropic rule. really if a vehicle ever gets down to toughness 8 or less it stops being anywhere near as difficult to kill. As far as I've heard up to this point, it sounds like we could have a fair amount of units or equipment to do that.

The wording is pretty straight-forward.

For each hit caused by a Entropic weapon at the end of the phase roll a D6 and on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor on all its facings. If the vehicle ever reaches 0 on any facing it becomes wrecked.


Scarabs have it.

One Cryptek piece of wargear has it (with unlimited range) as a shooting attack (so you can have two of these in the army if you take 2 Royal Courts).

C'Tan can take it as one of their manifestations.

And the Voidblade (which is a CC rending & entropic weapon), that is carried by Nemesor Zahndrekh and can be given to Necron Overlords, Destroyer Lords, Lesser Lords and Triarch Praetorians.

Sure there are things I'm a bit concerned about with the codex, I2 wraiths is some ++expletive deleted++

That being said I feel like this will be like the DE release in the sense that people sorta slung to the weaknesses in the book but now, at least locally for me, i'lll see players who read though the book and have mastered MSU and loads of dark lances to beat even the most seasoned of SW players.

tetrisphreak wrote:
Aw, okay. Thanks Yakface! Is a 4++ possible however, or do they simply crumple to powerfists and the like?

Well, they're Toughness 6 so they're not getting instant-killed by anything (unless it causes instant death regardless of Toughness), but yeah you're getting tooled by Powerfists cause they're wounding on 2's and you don't get a save from them...with the only saving grace being that at least you're swinging first most of the time with your awesome I2.

I guess you could always run him with a unit of Wraiths that have the Whip Coils to drop most of your combatants down to a I1. Of course that would be a very, very expensive unit with him included.

yakface wrote:

hollowmirror wrote:
The thing we can't really determine is the strength of our anti-tank, will be until we know the exact wording of the entropic rule. really if a vehicle ever gets down to toughness 8 or less it stops being anywhere near as difficult to kill. As far as I've heard up to this point, it sounds like we could have a fair amount of units or equipment to do that.

The wording is pretty straight-forward.

For each hit caused by a Entropic weapon at the end of the phase roll a D6 and on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor on all its facings. If the vehicle ever reaches 0 on any facing it becomes wrecked.


Scarabs have it.

One Cryptek piece of wargear has it (with unlimited range) as a shooting attack (so you can have two of these in the army if you take 2 Royal Courts).

C'Tan can take it as one of their manifestations.

And the Voidblade (which is a CC rending & entropic weapon), that is carried by Nemesor Zahndrekh and can be given to Necron Overlords, Destroyer Lords, Lesser Lords and Triarch Praetorians.

Using Mathammer (yes i know...) It seems like scarabs will be the end-all-be-all for FA slots in cron armies.
ten swarms in a max unit, no?
They charge a tank, say they charge a rhino which moved but didin't go all out.
4's to hit, A3 base, 4 on the charge equals 40 attacks. 4+ to hit brings us to an average of 20 hits and another 4+ for the effect will on average be 10 which willl take out most mech in the game (most have rear AV 10)

QUESTION THOUGH!

would this have a similar effect on walkers? would scarabs actually be allowed a change against a furioso?

yakface wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that keeping the Royal Court together could be a nice little unit.

Keep it simple and just take 5 Crypteks and give them the Harbinger of Destruction upgrade (which gets them the 36" S8 Assault1 Eldritch Lance shooting), and of course throw one solar pulse in there because its too good to pass up and you have a nice little AT unit, that can move and shoot 5 S8 shots and of course has the ability to apply night fighting to one of your opponent's turns with the solar pulse. All for just a hair under 200 points.

Awesome this was pretty much what i was thinking and if my theory that RAW will allow you to embark a Court on a Ghost Ark 'taxi" or hell sacrafice one of those 36" S8 shots for whatever the Abyssal Staff does and give him a VoD obviously going to pump the points up even more but you now have a unit that can shoot 4 36" S8 that can DS around the board each movement phase....

IronfrontAlex wrote:
Using Mathammer (yes i know...) It seems like scarabs will be the end-all-be-all for FA slots in cron armies.
ten swarms in a max unit, no?
They charge a tank, say they charge a rhino which moved but didin't go all out.
4's to hit, A3 base, 4 on the charge equals 40 attacks. 4+ to hit brings us to an average of 20 hits and another 4+ for the effect will on average be 10 which willl take out most mech in the game (most have rear AV 10)

QUESTION THOUGH!

would this have a similar effect on walkers? would scarabs actually be allowed a change against a furioso?

Of course. The only issue would be if the walker is WS5, which vs. the Scarab's WS2 would mean they need 5's to hit, which would really screw with your Scarabs effectiveness. And plus it would be really suicidal to do so since each wound caused by the walker is likely to cause instant death against the Scarabs.

I would personally categorize sending Scarabs against Walkers to be a less than optimal choice.

KarlPedder wrote:

yakface wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that keeping the Royal Court together could be a nice little unit.

Keep it simple and just take 5 Crypteks and give them the Harbinger of Destruction upgrade (which gets them the 36" S8 Assault1 Eldritch Lance shooting), and of course throw one solar pulse in there because its too good to pass up and you have a nice little AT unit, that can move and shoot 5 S8 shots and of course has the ability to apply night fighting to one of your opponent's turns with the solar pulse. All for just a hair under 200 points.

Awesome this was pretty much what i was thinking and if my theory that RAW will allow you to embark a Court on a Ghost Ark 'taxi" or hell sacrafice one of those 36" S8 shots for whatever the Abyssal Staff does and give him a VoD obviously going to pump the points up even more but you now have a unit that can shoot 4 36" S8 that can DS around the board each movement phase....

doubt you could but what if you could give the court destroyer bodies?

bwhaha totally unnecessary but it would be like oh hai jetseetcouncil

KarlPedder wrote:
Awesome this was pretty much what i was thinking and if my theory that RAW will allow you to embark a Court on a Ghost Ark 'taxi" or hell sacrafice one of those 36" S8 shots for whatever the Abyssal Staff does and give him a VoD obviously going to pump the points up even more but you now have a unit that can shoot 4 36" S8 that can DS around the board each movement phase....

Yes the Court can embark on a Ghost Ark. They can't take one, but they can ride it like you say.

And yeah, you could go with one VoD, but the VoD is really expensive and the Abyssal staff while cool (basically the exact same thing as a Callidus's Neural Shredder), doesn't really compliment the unit's primary AT role (although it does give it a nice fall back if you really need to go for it and attack a unit that has great armor but only a so-so Leadership characteristic).

Thanks again for all the info Yak, esp. the Wraith info.

I'm a bit confused by the Wraith Whips though, someone posted they were the same as Tyranid Lash Whips (reduce attacks by 1, if in base contact) but other people are saying the Wraith's whips reduce enemy Int to 1 if in base contact?

If its the latter, I'll be equiping them across the board.

Just a another plea for info on the Wraiths, has their strengh been reduced or is it still instant death for Humans/Eldar/Tau?

Scarabs vs Dreadnought (of any configuration) is usually a last-ditch suicide attempt, possibly at psyflemen that will be shooting at them next turn anyway. Riflemen dreads only have 2 attacks, so they hit on 3's, wound on 2's, allow the 5+ armor save, then whatever is left over is hitting back on 4's and reducing armor on 4's...the scarab tarpit will eventually crumble but the end result will be an AV7 or less dreadnought, which can be killed with small arms fire.

I think necrons will be unique in that if your target priority is good, you can make every (or almost every) enemy vehicle killable by anti-infantry weapons. Something nobody else can do on the tabletop right now. Cool.

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Thanks again for all the info Yak, esp. the Wraith info.

I'm a bit confused by the Wraith Whips though, someone posted they were the same as Tyranid Lash Whips (reduce attacks by 1, if in base contact) but other people are saying the Wraith's whips reduce enemy Int to 1 if in base contact?

If its the latter, I'll be equiping them across the board.

Just a another plea for info on the Wraiths, has their strengh been reduced or is it still instant death for Humans/Eldar/Tau?

Tyranid Lashwhips Reduce enemies in Base contact to I1, they don't reduce attacks.

Wraiths are Still Strength 6.

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Thanks again for all the info Yak, esp. the Wraith info.

I'm a bit confused by the Wraith Whips though, someone posted they were the same as Tyranid Lash Whips (reduce attacks by 1, if in base contact) but other people are saying the Wraith's whips reduce enemy Int to 1 if in base contact?

Don't know what Lash Whips the nids your dealing with use but in the codex reduce Initiavite to 1 is exactly what they do.

Does the Cryptek look like he's in a "rocking out" pose to anyone else, or just me?

KarlPedder wrote: Don't know what Lash Whips the nids your dealing with use but in the codex reduce Initiavite to 1 is exactly what they do.

I believe in the previous codex to this one they removed an Attack, so perhaps he's probably having the far-too-common 40k-style Vietnam flashback.

Sasori wrote:

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Thanks again for all the info Yak, esp. the Wraith info.

I'm a bit confused by the Wraith Whips though, someone posted they were the same as Tyranid Lash Whips (reduce attacks by 1, if in base contact) but other people are saying the Wraith's whips reduce enemy Int to 1 if in base contact?

If its the latter, I'll be equiping them across the board.

Just a another plea for info on the Wraiths, has their strengh been reduced or is it still instant death for Humans/Eldar/Tau?

Tyranid Lashwhips Reduce enemies in Base contact to I1, they don't reduce attacks.

Wraiths are Still Strength 6.

KarlPedder wrote:

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Thanks again for all the info Yak, esp. the Wraith info.

I'm a bit confused by the Wraith Whips though, someone posted they were the same as Tyranid Lash Whips (reduce attacks by 1, if in base contact) but other people are saying the Wraith's whips reduce enemy Int to 1 if in base contact?

Don't know what Lash Whips the nids your dealing with use but in the codex reduce Initiavite to 1 is exactly what they do.

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at the Nid codex now, not sure if its an old one (has a carnifex on the front doing GBH to a Ultramarine Rhino)?



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Ah, heres the kicker wirtten by Phil Kelly and Andy Chambers, I must have the old one

Scarabs are defo sounding like the way forward to me (i always used them anyway as i didn't have many Wraiths or Destroyers in the first place).

it also depends on how quickly they can move round the table. They used to move like jetbikes so coudl TBoost and get a 2+ cover save, then charge.

I'm guessing as they are now Beasts the cant TBoost though....so you will have to ake cunning use of cover to get them up close to that LR/Rhino/IG tank line (DIE MANTICORE DIE!!!)


I wonder if you can still do the old "join a D-Lord with Scarabs for a kick-ass cover save and tank killing charge".

What irritates me is that GW does not announce this stuff officially even when November is coming soon. Doesn't matter though, really.

I just discovered something rather distressing about the Night Scythes (the primary transport in the codex). I'm not entirely sure how I missed seeing this up until this point.

For its lone access point, it describes a wormhole gateway on the underside, and the fluff explains that the Night Scythe doesn't actually transport the unit inside it, but its just a stable wormhole to where the unit is hanging out...it says like the Monolith's portal, but less flexible. Cool right?

But the problem is the manifestation of this fluff into rules:

If the Night Scythe is destroyed the embarked unit is not deployed, but instead goes back into reserves to arrive normally (i.e. it can't deep strike even if the unit has that rule).

So basically, leaving your unit inside this transport becomes a giant liability because if it gets destroyed your unit is likely to have no impact at all on the game.

About the only way I could see this still being a viable transport would be when using the Stormlord and having the cover of night fight to allow your transports to move up without being shot...but even then, is it really worth the risk of having your unit banished back to Reserves a few turns into the game?

I desperately hope that this rule has somehow been changed in the final release of the codex (but I doubt it)!

I had a Vietnam flashback to 2nd ed Fantasy once, things had Letters for toughness! Dwarves were toughness "C"! Oh lord!

Is that Wraith ranged weapon which makes a random unit take a strength test also a pistol? If so, even if the shooting attack is rarely used, the extra attack'd be nice. As such, if the upgrade isn't that much more'n the normal pistol, you could take it on the off chance it'll be useful.

Also, ew, that does somewhat cramp the Night Scythe's style. Still, I wasn't planning on taking any, so I guess it doesn't affect me.

yakface wrote:
I just discovered something rather distressing about the Night Scythes (the primary transport in the codex). I'm not entirely sure how I missed seeing this up until this point.

For its lone access point, it describes a wormhole gateway on the underside, and the fluff explains that the Night Scythe doesn't actually transport the unit inside it, but its just a stable wormhole to where the unit is hanging out...it says like the Monolith's portal, but less flexible. Cool right?

But the problem is the manifestation of this fluff into rules:

If the Night Scythe is destroyed the embarked unit is not deployed, but instead goes back into reserves to arrive normally (i.e. it can't deep strike even if the unit has that rule).

So basically, leaving your unit inside this transport becomes a giant liability because if it gets destroyed your unit is likely to have no impact at all on the game.

About the only way I could see this still being a viable transport would be when using the Stormlord and having the cover of night fight to allow your transports to move up without being shot...but even then, is it really worth the risk of having your unit banished back to Reserves a few turns into the game?

I desperately hope that this rule has somehow been changed in the final release of the codex (but I doubt it)!

That.. really sucks. Cool fluff, really bad rule.

I think was not really bad the night scythes rule....if the enemy want to fire at the Scythe then he doesn't have nothing to assault...and with the rest of the army you can destroy them.....and if you reenter via reserve maybe you can take one objective near to you side....

@Yakface.

Can the monolith portal still be used as entrance point for warriors (of possibly other units) from reserve??

I see the Harp of Dissonance on the Cryptek being very useful. If you have several of them, you can reliably drop armor and fire other things to pop the vehicle within the same turn.

Also looking toward 6th ed. The possiable new rules for having your transport blown up could make the rule a really nice thing to have.

Praxiss wrote:Hmmm. Thanks. Not as pricey as i feared but more than i'd hoped.

Praxiss wrote:What do guys think Pariahs models would be best used as? i'm thinking either the Praetorians or Crypteks.

I only got 3 to trial ages ago and never got more because they were so.....disappointing.

yakface wrote:
I just discovered something rather distressing about the Night Scythes (the primary transport in the codex). I'm not entirely sure how I missed seeing this up until this point.

For its lone access point, it describes a wormhole gateway on the underside, and the fluff explains that the Night Scythe doesn't actually transport the unit inside it, but its just a stable wormhole to where the unit is hanging out...it says like the Monolith's portal, but less flexible. Cool right?

But the problem is the manifestation of this fluff into rules:

If the Night Scythe is destroyed the embarked unit is not deployed, but instead goes back into reserves to arrive normally (i.e. it can't deep strike even if the unit has that rule).

So basically, leaving your unit inside this transport becomes a giant liability because if it gets destroyed your unit is likely to have no impact at all on the game.

About the only way I could see this still being a viable transport would be when using the Stormlord and having the cover of night fight to allow your transports to move up without being shot...but even then, is it really worth the risk of having your unit banished back to Reserves a few turns into the game?

I desperately hope that this rule has somehow been changed in the final release of the codex (but I doubt it)!

Remember thinks can change in a final release. Even then that seems like such a huge rule hole that they would probably FAQ it

At least that change in fluff should please all the people who talked about how Necrons should teleporting in the battle.

It also encourages you to deploy forces sooner rather than later.

I know i am guilty of sitting a unit of CSMs on an objective still in their Rhino as it give a nice extra layer of protection. This rule woudl stop people doing that and force them to get their reserves on the table or risk makeing them useless for the game.

Doesn't it count as open topped anyway? So wouldn't it be able to move full speed (whatever that may be), fire a load of weapons AND dump its contents all in one turn?


I must admit i prefer the thought of a plane with a mini-portal to the thought of it landing and necrons walkign down a loading ramp onto the table. Much more fluffy IMHO. Anyone else got mages of the transport rings from StarGate in their head when thinking of this?