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Made in at
Been Around the Block




Here from B&C:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360223-ritual-of-the-damned-psychic-awakening/page-16#entry5461179
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world


I'm taking most of that with a HUGE grain of salt. Some of those things are absurdly powerful if true. Looks to me like a wishlist, perhaps with some nuggets of truth.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/22/19, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~13000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1300 | Space Wolves: ~3400
Astra Militarum: ~500 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~800 | Sisters of Battle: ~200
Tau Empire: ~6600 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~2900 | Death Guard: ~2800 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2018: 134 | Total models painted in 2019: 60 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels Primaris Master
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





Wow that is pretty wishlisty that second Deathwing trait that gives 1-3 fails to wound that has to be just on the character because otherwise sign me up.

Heavy weapon increased range...that sounds good the kicker seems to be leaving devastator. The ravenwing stuff sounds incredible

8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves
4000 Kel'shan Ta'u
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams 
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The extended range and the "1." RW trait to move and fire with no penalty on a Talon Master makes land speeder squads annoyingly effective harassing units.


"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning. There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot. And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5000 | 2800 | 1700 | 3600 | 2100 | 550

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hickory NC

From what I have seen it's an improvement. Don't think it makes us as strong as the Marines with the broken supplements but better is better.

Ravenwing Land Speeder squadrons with Typhoons hanging around Sammael on Sableclaw are going to be crazy good.

 
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

So it's all true. Amazing!
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




It looks like there is hope to be had after all so far for the Deathwing. Assuming the rest of the leaks are true, what are everyone's thoughts on bringing Deathwing back to life on the table top? The combined assault stratagem looks like it will be a no-brainer naturally.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




This is looking pretty good all round (RW appear to be the big winners though).

I may have cause to actually dig out my DW with heavy flamer models again.

looking forward to dropping dw knights down just outside of 6", especially if that Outnumbered but never outmatched strat is real. What with shock assault on top they should be able to put quite a dent in say a knight

If the rest of the leaks are true (and its looking likely) my old 4th ed DW/RW list may FINALLY be viable in 8th.

On the other hand, a combined arms 3 detachment list (green battalion, DW vanguard, RW outrider vigilus thingy) looks fun, itll be small, but fun.

hmm, wheres my books, gotta try some plotting.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




princeyg wrote:
This is looking pretty good all round (RW appear to be the big winners though).

I may have cause to actually dig out my DW with heavy flamer models again.

looking forward to dropping dw knights down just outside of 6", especially if that Outnumbered but never outmatched strat is real. What with shock assault on top they should be able to put quite a dent in say a knight

If the rest of the leaks are true (and its looking likely) my old 4th ed DW/RW list may FINALLY be viable in 8th.

On the other hand, a combined arms 3 detachment list (green battalion, DW vanguard, RW outrider vigilus thingy) looks fun, itll be small, but fun.

hmm, wheres my books, gotta try some plotting.


I think a double battalion will serve better for all the CP that will be needed, but it will be hard to make a list with a double batallion that also has all the toys to use the CP on....
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

How does combined assault interact with infiltrators aura?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




12" bubble of thou shall not pass cares not for our tricky tricks (at least that's how I remember the last FAQ I read on the issue).
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

I don't remember reading that anywhere, can you tell me where to look that up?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I'm a little worried about the CP cost because the Deathwing beta strike looks like 2 CP for combined assault, very likely another CP to give the Ravenwing jink since they can't advance and use combined strike, and another 2 or 3 CP for Deathwing assault to double-tap heavy flamers and storm bolters. I suppose it would be better to split up your shooty Deathwing from your CC focused Deathwing. Obviously Deathwing knights supported by an ancient will be the choice to use combined assault, at a five-man that's 16 s8 3D shots hitting on 3+, plus five flail of the unforgiven attacks from the Seargent (which you can instead use to daisy chain auras), on a near-guaranteed charge. Larger units would benefit more, but I'm still a bit hesitant to all-in on terminators since they are not very efficient.

Does a heavy flamer make the five-man unit of Deathwing worth using Deathwing assault on? that would be 32 bolter shots and 2d6 heavy flamer shots, which seems good for clearing screens until you realize that they will be way more expensive than any screen they are clearing.

Aggressors actually get a lot of mileage out of our abilities, with a 21" bolt storm config or 11" flame storm config. It might actually make flame storm worthwhile since they would be able to torch deep strikers, seems especially good against blood letter bombs and anything from the GSC.

Land speeders seem to have gotten a lot of love, a heavy bolter Land speeder costs 55 points, which is a steal for what we will get out of it. First, it will act as a Deathwing diving board since it's fast and has the fly keyword, second, the reroll hits stratagem brings units outside of a DA castle up to snuff, my immediate thought was plasma inceptors who can OC from deep strike without killing themselves (much), but dark knights can pull the same trick. Probably run two H-Bolter land speeders, not in a squadron.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aeri wrote:
I don't remember reading that anywhere, can you tell me where to look that up?


I think he is referring to Infiltrators, which is a bad unit with a good ability. But people have had to deal with deep strike charges for a long time and infiltrators have never caught on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 20:45:49


Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

Found it:

FAQS Q: If a unit has a rule that says enemy units cannot set up within a certain distance of it (e.g. Omni-scramblers), but an enemy unit has a rule that says it can set up within a certain distance (e.g. Vexilla Teleport Homer and Lying in Wait), which takes precedence? A: The rule that says you cannot be set up within a certain distance (in the example instance, Omniscramblers) always takes precedence.

However, the stratagem does not only allow to be setup within a certain range of a unity but also closer to another unit than it would normally be allowed to.
Therefore the answer in the faq does not cover the issue at hand.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

princeyg wrote:
This is looking pretty good all round (RW appear to be the big winners though).

I may have cause to actually dig out my DW with heavy flamer models again.

looking forward to dropping dw knights down just outside of 6", especially if that Outnumbered but never outmatched strat is real. What with shock assault on top they should be able to put quite a dent in say a knight

If the rest of the leaks are true (and its looking likely) my old 4th ed DW/RW list may FINALLY be viable in 8th.

On the other hand, a combined arms 3 detachment list (green battalion, DW vanguard, RW outrider vigilus thingy) looks fun, itll be small, but fun.

hmm, wheres my books, gotta try some plotting.


DW knights can do more than dent a knight, they can kill them outright. I have been using 5 DW Knights an Ancient with MoM and a DW Libby with RR power and that will down a knight with ease. Using 3 CP to fight again and you can get 2. What is better most Knight players do not expect it and are quite happy for you to charge 5 terminators in.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Hickory NC

Do you use an Ancient with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer?

 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

 Reivax26 wrote:
Do you use an Ancient with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer?


Twin Claws because it's cheaper and I do not have a TH/SS model I could use that is different enough to the Knights. TBH he is there solely to be the Warlord and give MoM for the reroll charge and his +1a aura, so even if I had the model I would probably keep him as twin Claws.
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

Can ab explain how consolidating into a second unit and fighting again allows you to hit that unit?
I thought you can only ever target a unit you charged or were already in combat with.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Declare charges against everything w/in 12". You don't have to end your charge move w/in 1" of a unit to fight it, you only need to have declared it as a target in your charge phase.
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Did DA just get VIABLE ASSAULT TERMINATORS??!! I want too!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I'm not sold yet. I struggle to use dark knights so having to include them to use the DWK doesn't seem great.

Sammy on a bike or one of the RW bike characters (ancient/apoth) seems like the best delivery method to me. I saw sammy on bike + a couple talon masters as a delivery bubble to blow away chaff and make a good landing spot seems fun (supreme command detachment?)

I still think they'll suffer from being so dang slow once they land but that's a genreic termie problem.

I'm looking forward to seeing what people who are better at 40k than I am come up with. There are defo some tools, now it's about getting in the lab and figuring out what works for you (my favorite part of 40k).
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Dadavester wrote:
princeyg wrote:
This is looking pretty good all round (RW appear to be the big winners though).

I may have cause to actually dig out my DW with heavy flamer models again.

looking forward to dropping dw knights down just outside of 6", especially if that Outnumbered but never outmatched strat is real. What with shock assault on top they should be able to put quite a dent in say a knight

If the rest of the leaks are true (and its looking likely) my old 4th ed DW/RW list may FINALLY be viable in 8th.

On the other hand, a combined arms 3 detachment list (green battalion, DW vanguard, RW outrider vigilus thingy) looks fun, itll be small, but fun.

hmm, wheres my books, gotta try some plotting.


DW knights can do more than dent a knight, they can kill them outright. I have been using 5 DW Knights an Ancient with MoM and a DW Libby with RR power and that will down a knight with ease. Using 3 CP to fight again and you can get 2. What is better most Knight players do not expect it and are quite happy for you to charge 5 terminators in.


Ok, cool. Its been a while since I actually got a game in.
Im not the most competitive minded player ( heck I use a DW apothecary) but my nids have been shot up or stood on by too many of those oversized tin cans its nice to know one of my armies has something that can make them go splat! (lets not talk about my stompa eh?)

Looking at the list of leaks, IF they are all true then i'm gonna have to expand my ravenwing collection i think, looking at a couple of cheap landpeeders for the targeting strat (ahem {old man voice} " brings back memories of epic that does, lad") does anybody use units of em with typhoons? are they any good?

What do people think about the old epic spotter landspeeder + safely hidden out of the way whirlwind combo?? With the extra range from the doctrine you could zip the speeder up a flank (or two) and the whirlwind should be able to hit most things.

As someone who runs a 10 man DW unit for teleporting onto objectives ( im mad like that) the relic for the ancient seems good, even though the ancient is probably better off with the knights. Anything that makes termies harder to kill is fine by me
P.S. i know lots of people think 10 man termies are too expensive, but its gotta be my 2nd best performing unit overall (after the flying chapel of course)

One last question. As someone who has never owned a primaris marine, and in fact only bought tacticals about 2 months before primaris were revealed, do the 2 wounds make them ok to use in 5 man squads? If im gonna go double battalion im gonna need troops (looking at 3 squads of intercessors, 3 squads of scouts, because scouts are cool) I was always wary of 5 man tacticals.

*edited for spelling

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/16 20:43:56


 
   
Made in nl
Emboldened Warlock





Groningen

princeyg wrote:

One last question. As someone who has never owned a primaris marine, and in fact only bought tacticals about 2 months before primaris were revealed, do the 2 wounds make them ok to use in 5 man squads? If im gonna go double battalion im gonna need troops (looking at 3 squads of intercessors, 3 squads of scouts, because scouts are cool) I was always wary of 5 man tacticals.


5 man intercessors are excellent IMO, for only 20 points more they get a better gun and double the wounds.
I think you could even make a competitive list based on them, instead of taking just the bare minimum.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Nivoglibina wrote:
princeyg wrote:

One last question. As someone who has never owned a primaris marine, and in fact only bought tacticals about 2 months before primaris were revealed, do the 2 wounds make them ok to use in 5 man squads? If im gonna go double battalion im gonna need troops (looking at 3 squads of intercessors, 3 squads of scouts, because scouts are cool) I was always wary of 5 man tacticals.


5 man intercessors are excellent IMO, for only 20 points more they get a better gun and double the wounds.
I think you could even make a competitive list based on them, instead of taking just the bare minimum.


Thanks for the reply. Good to know.

Its not that I WANT to take bare minimum, but its looking like ill have to to fit in all the funky DW/RW stuff I like, plus maybe trying to squeeze in some stuff I have never used, like the aforementioned whirlwind. Im also not one of these people who have a grudge against primaris existing, just finances have meant I have concentrated more on my nids in the last 2 years so never bought any. Saying that, my most played opponent (space wolves) has just added a whole bunch of them to his secondary army (crimson fists) and i am quite taken with the models.

Ive never really been one for msu (even my eldar fielded multiple 20 guardian units)
Its why i field 6 man RW units. 3 just looks to piddling small for me (again, not a tournament player so min/maxing isnt really an issue in my games).

Its looking like for the first time in a Loong time the DA are not going to be lagging behind the other chapters at least (never played vs iron hands so wont include them).

   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

Considering the range bonus, what weapons would you now take on hellblasters?
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Aeri wrote:
Considering the range bonus, what weapons would you now take on hellblasters?

I think the standard Rapid Fire version is still the way to go. The Heavy version just doesn't have enough shots, and the Assault version capping out at S7 when overcharged is too much of a downside for me - S8 feels like a pretty important breakpoint to reach right now.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hickory NC

My list got better I suppose. Now my Deredeo has 42 inches on his Autocannon Battery and Heavy Bolters. Plus my Venerable Dreadnoughts are packing 54 inch Lascannons lol

 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

 Reivax26 wrote:
My list got better I suppose. Now my Deredeo has 42 inches on his Autocannon Battery and Heavy Bolters. Plus my Venerable Dreadnoughts are packing 54 inch Lascannons lol


I run 3x ML/LC Ven dreads as my anti-Tank. This will make them even better.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hickory NC

I might run the Ancient I was using as a SS/TH Master now that I can give him a trait to ignore to wound rolls against him of a 1-3.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

Aeri wrote:
Considering the range bonus, what weapons would you now take on hellblasters?


I don't know if the extra range really changes that equation, the assault plasma incinerator needed the extra range the most, but only got 3". Perhaps the new litany might help make a case for heavy plasma incinerators since they would be able to move and shoot without penalty, with a 42" range and a 6" move there are not many things that could outrange them, and they are basically las cannons at str 9 ap -4 and 3 damage (with WFTDA). I still think plasma incinerators are the better overall weapon thanks to rapid-fire (now at a range of 18"), but str 9 is more useful against knights and the like.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
 
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