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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches can be used basically in 2 ways right now:

way 1: There is a cult trait that grants +1S and only 1 model can flee from morale. This makes 20 wych blob footslogging lists usable, and very visually cool. A 6++ 6+++ model with basically fearless is actually kind of a challenge to remove in large numbers.

Way 2: in min squads with Shardnets and the 3++ invuln in close combat custom trait as tie-up troops

Way 3: in mechanized squads with 3x hydras and the Test of Skill/Slashing Impact custom traits as mortal wound spamming killing troops.

I think there are pros and cons to each way. I think wyches are solidly better than wracks, arguable against Kabalites. Kabalites just have Black Heart and Ravagers going for them. Test of Skill flyers are the best way to run flyers, period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was thinking about potentially getting into Dark Eldar instead of Harlequins. Couple of quick questions though before I make that jump on Christmas:
1. Did max squads of Kalabites in Raiders get better or are they still below mediocre for the most part?
2. Are the custom traits cool or is all the best stuff still default like Flayed Skull and Black Heart?

1) the same. I think they're OK, but venomspam is kind of the way to go. Coven venomspam is going to be a big deal IMO in the primaris meta, I think you'll see that way more than kabals.

2) Kabal ones are thoroughly trash. Wych Cults and Covens have some good combos. Flayed Skull/Black heart is still the choice you make for Kabals.

I'm already thinking two Battalions at the moment with one being Covens using Venoms and the Kabals spamming Raiders. Seems like they can totally spam some damage and objective capturing without losing firepower.

Which combos for Covens particularly stand out, or is the one special character dude worth not going custom?

Neither named character is worth writing home about, but Prophets of Flesh is basically the other tournament-tier coven alternative (Chapter Tactic is +1 to invuln saves on all the monsters and troops). The custom covens give you the offensive build, Prophets of Flesh is the defensive build with Grots and Taloses.

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches were great 2 months ago. They were high risk/skill high reward.

Now? Shock assaulting primaris became a massive issue. Most of their tricks involved no escape. Doesn't fly when the other guy swings in 3 times per marine, sometimes more. With 2 wound models your not really killing them, and the volume of attacks at s4 is exactly the tool to kill wyches in assault (besides pistols which they also have lol).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches can be used basically in 2 ways right now:

way 1: There is a cult trait that grants +1S and only 1 model can flee from morale. This makes 20 wych blob footslogging lists usable, and very visually cool. A 6++ 6+++ model with basically fearless is actually kind of a challenge to remove in large numbers.

Way 2: in min squads with Shardnets and the 3++ invuln in close combat custom trait as tie-up troops

Way 3: in mechanized squads with 3x hydras and the Test of Skill/Slashing Impact custom traits as mortal wound spamming killing troops.

I think there are pros and cons to each way. I think wyches are solidly better than wracks, arguable against Kabalites. Kabalites just have Black Heart and Ravagers going for them. Test of Skill flyers are the best way to run flyers, period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was thinking about potentially getting into Dark Eldar instead of Harlequins. Couple of quick questions though before I make that jump on Christmas:
1. Did max squads of Kalabites in Raiders get better or are they still below mediocre for the most part?
2. Are the custom traits cool or is all the best stuff still default like Flayed Skull and Black Heart?

1) the same. I think they're OK, but venomspam is kind of the way to go. Coven venomspam is going to be a big deal IMO in the primaris meta, I think you'll see that way more than kabals.

2) Kabal ones are thoroughly trash. Wych Cults and Covens have some good combos. Flayed Skull/Black heart is still the choice you make for Kabals.

I'm already thinking two Battalions at the moment with one being Covens using Venoms and the Kabals spamming Raiders. Seems like they can totally spam some damage and objective capturing without losing firepower.

Which combos for Covens particularly stand out, or is the one special character dude worth not going custom?

You have it backwards, you want the venoms to go kabal and the raiders to be coven. Dark technomancy raiders with dissies are on par with dissy ravagers for damage output. Super charging venoms sounds cool, but they kill themselves really fast and the lack of AP isn't great.

Named characters should be moot here if your taking battalions. Profits of Flesh should be going spearhead or vanguard and not taking vehicles and drazhar doesn't impact your choice.
Lelith I won't discuss since your not even going Cult from the looks.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches were great 2 months ago. They were high risk/skill high reward.

Now? Shock assaulting primaris became a massive issue. Most of their tricks involved no escape. Doesn't fly when the other guy swings in 3 times per marine, sometimes more. With 2 wound models your not really killing them, and the volume of attacks at s4 is exactly the tool to kill wyches in assault (besides pistols which they also have lol).

None of my opponents actually field Primaris - they're near exclusively (infantry-heavy) Guard or mixed Battlesuit and Infantry Tau. One of them occasionally brings Space Marines, but not many Primaris.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches were great 2 months ago. They were high risk/skill high reward.

Now? Shock assaulting primaris became a massive issue. Most of their tricks involved no escape. Doesn't fly when the other guy swings in 3 times per marine, sometimes more. With 2 wound models your not really killing them, and the volume of attacks at s4 is exactly the tool to kill wyches in assault (besides pistols which they also have lol).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches can be used basically in 2 ways right now:

way 1: There is a cult trait that grants +1S and only 1 model can flee from morale. This makes 20 wych blob footslogging lists usable, and very visually cool. A 6++ 6+++ model with basically fearless is actually kind of a challenge to remove in large numbers.

Way 2: in min squads with Shardnets and the 3++ invuln in close combat custom trait as tie-up troops

Way 3: in mechanized squads with 3x hydras and the Test of Skill/Slashing Impact custom traits as mortal wound spamming killing troops.

I think there are pros and cons to each way. I think wyches are solidly better than wracks, arguable against Kabalites. Kabalites just have Black Heart and Ravagers going for them. Test of Skill flyers are the best way to run flyers, period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was thinking about potentially getting into Dark Eldar instead of Harlequins. Couple of quick questions though before I make that jump on Christmas:
1. Did max squads of Kalabites in Raiders get better or are they still below mediocre for the most part?
2. Are the custom traits cool or is all the best stuff still default like Flayed Skull and Black Heart?

1) the same. I think they're OK, but venomspam is kind of the way to go. Coven venomspam is going to be a big deal IMO in the primaris meta, I think you'll see that way more than kabals.

2) Kabal ones are thoroughly trash. Wych Cults and Covens have some good combos. Flayed Skull/Black heart is still the choice you make for Kabals.

I'm already thinking two Battalions at the moment with one being Covens using Venoms and the Kabals spamming Raiders. Seems like they can totally spam some damage and objective capturing without losing firepower.

Which combos for Covens particularly stand out, or is the one special character dude worth not going custom?

You have it backwards, you want the venoms to go kabal and the raiders to be coven. Dark technomancy raiders with dissies are on par with dissy ravagers for damage output. Super charging venoms sounds cool, but they kill themselves really fast and the lack of AP isn't great.

Named characters should be moot here if your taking battalions. Profits of Flesh should be going spearhead or vanguard and not taking vehicles and drazhar doesn't impact your choice.
Lelith I won't discuss since your not even going Cult from the looks.

The goal was to get the most of Splinter Rack Raiders with those max squads getting free rerolls on their base weapon. I hadn't even start chatting how to equip the max squad (probably 2 Blasters and a Dark Lance, but I'm probably wrong on that).

You can absolutely field Kabalites in raiders, the raiders can be from another obsession though. You generally don't want the dark lance mixed with blasters, the ranges and weapon types don't mix well. I have often run two 5 man squads with a blaster each sharing a single raider. You get the same 2 specials as 10 men but with another free leader, are basically immune to moral and you have twice the tactical flexibility. I don't like splinter racks personally. In fact, I tend to keep my transports as cheap as possible often fielding a splinter canon and twin rifle on my venoms over dual canon as well. It's pretty common actually. You want more vehicles and squads, DE do MSU really well.

Your preferred kabal really matter too, generally it's going to be one of the 4 originals since the new ones are really bad (I generally am positive about vetting things but these just don't work with Kabal). The most popular are Black Heart and Flayed Skull, basically your defensive and offensive choices.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
How are Wyches this edition? I've heard people say Kabalites and Wracks are better, but are Wyches any decent as a core of a starting army?

I'm thinking about getting into Dark Eldar and I've been wondering how good the following stuff would be as an entry point;

1x Start Collecting
1x box of Wyches
1x Raider
2x Venom

Just as a starting point, that is. If this is any decent, what would be good units to expand the army with?

Wyches were great 2 months ago. They were high risk/skill high reward.

Now? Shock assaulting primaris became a massive issue. Most of their tricks involved no escape. Doesn't fly when the other guy swings in 3 times per marine, sometimes more. With 2 wound models your not really killing them, and the volume of attacks at s4 is exactly the tool to kill wyches in assault (besides pistols which they also have lol).

None of my opponents actually field Primaris - they're near exclusively (infantry-heavy) Guard or mixed Battlesuit and Infantry Tau. One of them occasionally brings Space Marines, but not many Primaris.

Tau is pretty harsh on cult too though to be fair. Battle suits are not infantry so you cannot trap them which is really harsh since you have to survive the charge to begin with and you can't even lock them. You can lock the infantry though, but again, you have to survive and then not kill them. Mini marines are more managable for sure, but shock assault still makes them much scarier too mind you, and they all pack pistols, but it's definitely better then primaris for sure. Glad your having success though, I love wych cult, you definitely don't see many players using a lot of the cult stuff beyond reavers.

Huh. I misread my friend's codex then. I had thought I read you get one Special at 5 dudes and then another Special + Heavy at 10 dudes. That made it a neat incentive to run 10 man squads.

Whelp that throws a wrench in that, especially since there really isn't a lot of encouragement from Strats to run 10 dudes either.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Huh. I misread my friend's codex then. I had thought I read you get one Special at 5 dudes and then another Special + Heavy at 10 dudes. That made it a neat incentive to run 10 man squads.

Whelp that throws a wrench in that, especially since there really isn't a lot of encouragement from Strats to run 10 dudes either.

You read it correctly, it just isn't worth taking a heavy on the 10 because it will be 36" range and the blasters 18" meaning your going to be moving to get range and the dark lance isn't worth 20 points for a BS 4+ shot usually. That said, it is by no means terrible and I encourage you to try it out for yourself. DE have loads of ways to play. I generally tend to keep my troops lower profile and as cheap as possible because they die really easy when they draw attention. More targets (MSU) is the easiest way to maximize your durability.

Edit: Just to demonstrate 10 guys with 3 weapons, a raider with racks and a dissy 204pts. a triple dissy ravager and a 5 man squad (no special) in a venom is 220pts. It's very similar firepower, the raider team gets 14 splinter shots and 3 anti tank + the dissy while the venom and ravager gets 20 splinter shots and 3 dissies. But your spreading your threats out.

But like I said, you can make it work, it largely depends on style. I will add though, you are better off putting lances on vehicles whenever possible rather then on infantry. But if you can't get another vehicle in and have the points then I'd say squeeze one into a squad.

@red corsair: you actually probably saved me some money with your insights. Of course these days affording models is tough nevermind trying to be competitive. It sucks to be poor in this hobby.

I still feel like blasters cost too much. At least if you spam warriors and take the webway obsession you can get a bunch of blasters in an opponents face fast but perhaps running em on foot as obsidian rose would cost less command points and do more. Plus deep striking so many points does limit things.

I think the test of skill razorwings and the coven dissie raiders would do more though. So perhaps the foot slogging warriors with blasters isn't as good overall. Perhaps I should try both. Randomly generated damage isn't as good as flat 2 or 3 damage in my experience however.

I agree with you on heavy weapons on ravagers but honestly the more I play the game the more I hate dark lance and blasters and love dissies. The range, armor piercing and volume of fire as well as damage makes dissies good esp. With archons re-rolling ones to hit. Random damage is just that and so often the opponent will just re-roll an inv save and then nothing matters which is why volume of fire is great. Also if an opponent has an inv save dissies usually negate armor enough for the inv save to be used. Range is just great for us because we are glass cannons. Cant stress these weapons and their failings or successes enough. I wish other weapon choices were nearly as viable as dissies but they're not.

You want good drukhari tactics? Think like drukhari! Get high and you should figure it out!

So I like dark eldar. Don't get me wrong. That said for pure dark eldar the best builds seem to be disintegrators spammed as much as possible with various obsessions but dissies nonetheless. Grotesques and talos might still be ok but dissies are just too good and the issue with shredders is shredderborn in venoms cost a lot and are too fragile for what they are. As soon as i get the cash i will probably drop the shredders unless i try em out in a kabal ds list with the webway obsession but i doubt it is worth it.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So I like dark eldar. Don't get me wrong. That said for pure dark eldar the best builds seem to be disintegrators spammed as much as possible with various obsessions but dissies nonetheless. Grotesques and talos might still be ok but dissies are just too good and the issue with shredders is shredderborn in venoms cost a lot and are too fragile for what they are. As soon as i get the cash i will probably drop the shredders unless i try em out in a kabal ds list with the webway obsession but i doubt it is worth it.

I understand that there are some very good players who use Shredders, but the issue with the weapon remains that it is an anti-horde option in an army that already has that in abundance, and actually needs a way to deal with heavy armour.

Dissies are not "too good" in my opinion, the problem is that Dark Lances are too expensive. I don't understand why the new Obsessions didn't include some option to buff darklight, such as maybe re-rolling damage on Lances.

Im playing pure Coven, which Ive always done since starting the army. I get that Dissies are the gak. I just love the Coven too much to do it. So i have 3 Raiders w them, but otherwise its Coven-tastic brigade. Im pretty torn on using the new stuff from awakening. Prophets of flesh is so good!

 harlokin wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So I like dark eldar. Don't get me wrong. That said for pure dark eldar the best builds seem to be disintegrators spammed as much as possible with various obsessions but dissies nonetheless. Grotesques and talos might still be ok but dissies are just too good and the issue with shredders is shredderborn in venoms cost a lot and are too fragile for what they are. As soon as i get the cash i will probably drop the shredders unless i try em out in a kabal ds list with the webway obsession but i doubt it is worth it.

I understand that there are some very good players who use Shredders, but the issue with the weapon remains that it is an anti-horde option in an army that already has that in abundance, and actually needs a way to deal with heavy armour.

Dissies are not "too good" in my opinion, the problem is that Dark Lances are too expensive. I don't understand why the new Obsessions didn't include some option to buff darklight, such as maybe re-rolling damage on Lances.

The issue is more the way I run shredderborn in venoms they are vulnerable to getting charged. I could maybe run a unit to run interference as a shield for them (bunch of reavers) but that would get expensive and vs shooting is worthless except maybe to tie down the remaining survivors (I suppose I could still try it though but it's so costly). Even if that isn't a problem though it often doesn't take much to take out 3 venoms. I had one opponent kill 2 or 3 of em in one shooting phase like it was nothing once. If I take em it'll either be in raiders or on foot and will definitely be basic warriors. Trueborn are practically twice the price per body with the same durability per body. That's why my idea is to maybe spam warriors. Perhaps if I run the webway obsession and drops four 20 man squads of warriors with shredders then they could do some decent damage. I pretty much already have 16 shredders right now. They'd also have to deal with all the poison and I don't think the opponent would appreciate that many shots. Poison shooting is kinda balls against good armor saves though and also pretty bad at multiple damage.

I honestly don't get GW. They give us new incubi but the rules are the same except for drazhar. Most of the kits they released were either promised from 5th ed or just the re-released wracks with one new weapon choice that is currently crap. I just wish we could see new reaver jet-bike weapons, maybe new melee weapons for hellions and incubi or something, perhaps allow "mercenary" units some sort of personal unit-wide obsession.

Dissies fit the role that most of our army needs badly in many situations. They have good AP value so can generally cut through most armor but not all of it which is usually irrelevant in the case of units with invulnerable saves, they have really good range for dark eldar being the only anti-infantry (or at least MEQ infantry) weapon with 36" and is also an assault weapon on vehicles which is huge because you'll get shot at less due to speed and range of your units (splinter cannons are rapid fire 3 at 36" and should be assault 6 on vehicles so they've been ruined in 8th) and they do multiple flat damage of at least 2 (meaning more shots probably get through vs units with invulnerable saves and they aren't as likely to command point re-roll their inv. save). Unless you're fighting wave serpeants with that damage reduction shield or a massive horde army then dissies are generally the best weapon we have and they're far more flexible than other weapons we have. Haywire only effects vehicles, poison only really hurts non-vehicles and it often doesn't do multiple damage and has no AP usually and range is poor, shredders are best vs infantry and often not much else and their range is really short and dark lances are good against normal vehicles but struggle against vehicles with invulnerable saves.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So I like dark eldar. Don't get me wrong. That said for pure dark eldar the best builds seem to be disintegrators spammed as much as possible with various obsessions but dissies nonetheless. Grotesques and talos might still be ok but dissies are just too good and the issue with shredders is shredderborn in venoms cost a lot and are too fragile for what they are. As soon as i get the cash i will probably drop the shredders unless i try em out in a kabal ds list with the webway obsession but i doubt it is worth it.

We have some of the most viable comp units in the game, you dont need Trueborns also. Yes we spam, but DE has always been a spam army b.c we are cheap and paper, thats kinda the points of DE (other than Caoven, but they still are cheap and weak enough to want to take a lot too).

So heres a question ive been having about running spammed warrior with blasters for a total of 24 blasters in 6 units of 20 warriors. I'm unsure if it's still viable and whether I go one of 2 routes.

One route is obsidian rose. Blasters get 24" assault weapons so can advance and still shoot with solid range and not much negatives. At short range of everything they get a bit vulnerable all around though but they are cheap and will be able to eat wounds no problem and allowing damage from turn 1.

The other route I take the webway stratagem for 2 units and do it twice. I then show up at turn 2 in front of anything worthwhile and hit em with poison and blasters all over the place and when the units start taking worrying casualties then disdain for lesser beings kicks in and I can't lose more than one model from failed morale checks which should annoy the crap out of my opponent hoping the rest of the squad would just flee.

What are you doing with units of 20 warriors? kinda of a waste with no protection. I guess if your meta is toned down enough to do that then thats great! And i would go with obi rose even if you do DS them, staying in safe areas is key with large units. Also make sure to Fire and fade them into more safe areas after you shoot. And i would for sure still DS 2 of them no matter what.

I actually changed my mind somewhat since I wrote that and decided against webway unless I do some shredders. I don't think i'll take obsidian rose but I think i'll take Disdain for Lesser Beings and some other obsession and then either spam blasters or dark lances. With dark lances they may not get shot at enough to really cause issues and DfLB makes it so you can only ever lose just one warrior in a squad. You can get twice as many blasters and it's an assault weapon so you can move, advance and still fire but getting close to the enemy could be a bad idea for being charged or shot at. Usually if you're that close you'd probably be taking a lot of shots.

Honestly my only issue is while I like obsidian rose's range boost to guns I also like the DfLB obsession that forces an enemy to kill a squad down to the last model or so because failed morale won't do much of diddly.

As far as units that big the original plan was to give the 20 model warrior units dark lances but after some time I thought about giving them blasters. Issue being blaster range generally means you're in range of just about every weapon possible and maybe even charge range for some units. I also forgot too many points in DS is a waste often times and leaves you a bit lacking turn 1. Anyway i'm going back to the idea of dark lance warrior squads and possibly giving them blasters as well if the enemy comes into close range but that could get expensive in points esp. if I end up facing a heavy shooting army which these days is much of the top tier factions.

Another reason for 20 model warrior squads aside from DfLB making it more valid is that there's somewhat of a limit of how many warriors I can take in an army list. If I take a lot they need to be 20 man units. Not just that but a 6 pts t3 unit is about as spammy as dark eldar can get. I understand we often can't take a hit and want to have more numbers so that's why i'm spamming the crap out of the spam-iest unit we have. Unless they have a ton of anti-horde cutting through 120 models and then a good chunk of ravagers and flyers might take a lot longer. I think it'd be better than venoms with trueborn squads because there's more of a limit of numbers with trueborn and they cost a lot and are fragile. A dead warrior squad of even 20 isn't that expensive and it's only a small chunk of firepower.

I'm still probably gonna go for dissie spam in the future but I want something unconventional because it's more interesting. It might not win as well often times but it's more fun to play.

Obsidian rose has, for their unique strategem, "any one that runs away gets to shoot one time and if they kill any one then no one runs away"

Also a warrior squad in a venom can have a blaster and a blast pistol. Shorter range and now you can't advance, but cheeper to spam.

Anyone else not feelin much love from ol'GeeDubs?

Its cool that Marines are getting some buffs, The beta bolters are fine, I don't mind shock assult. Doctrines cool, super doctrines? Iron hands don't bother me, they can move and shoot if they want to, but white scars and blood angels make me wonder what the point of our cults are.

White scars get +1 damage in assult doctrine on top of -1 ap. A simple tac marine gets 2 attacks str4 -1 ap 2 damage. Assult troops with chain swords get 3 attacks. Thats the same as Wytches on the first roubd of combat.

Blood Angles get an extra attack in assult doctrine. 4 attacks for a chain sword at ap -1 (and more strenght and plus 1 to wound)

Thats cool its fine that they get their toys but whats the point of Wytches now? Same number of attacks but at less strenght ap and damage. We still get an invul save in close combat which they don't (unless they bring storm shields) and can tie stuff up which they can't (unless they have a white scars warlord).

Damn I was trying to to complain, but ended up complaining. No Vigilis detachments, minimal attention in psychic awakening, and now our close combat glass hammer troops are made obsolete by basic marines.

Not entirely no but we'll see.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157154700700958&set=gm.10157681368147486&type=3&theater

Reavers down to 16 points from 19 so yeah it's a good decrease in cost.

That will save my main army 36 points.

And the cult of speed list at least 60.

That helps a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Not entirely no but we'll see.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157154700700958&set=gm.10157681368147486&type=3&theater

Reavers down to 16 points from 19 so yeah it's a good decrease in cost.

Couldn't open the link.

I haven't played as much as you and barely anybody I know plays marines at my gw but outside of tau I don't have many issues and that may change as I build up my army.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
barely anybody I know plays marines at my gw

That may change.

Phoenix Rising FAQ/Errata is up.

Obsessive Collectors and Experimental Creations were changed.

Obsessive collectors now only triggers on unit destruction

Experimental Creations only works with Melee poisoned weapons. (edit for clarity), still get the +1 strength across the board, only the +1 to poison wound rolls applies only to poison melee weapons, assuming your strength is still higher than their toughness.

 warmaster21 wrote:
Phoenix Rising FAQ/Errata is up.

Obsessive Collectors and Experimental Creations were changed.

Obsessive collectors now only triggers on unit destruction

Experimental Creations only works with Melee poisoned weapons.

this pisses me off so much. Like why nerf it? now experimental creations litterally only affect wracks and haemies..... this is so dumb , feth GW

It is a shame since those were the 2 i was looking at running in a foot slogging tanky coven list for fun.

 warmaster21 wrote:
It is a shame since those were the 2 i was looking at running in a foot slogging tanky coven list for fun.

at least they left us dark technomancers ...

i guess i'll be running DarkTech + Masters of mutagens from now on, to try and kill some primarises

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:
Phoenix Rising FAQ/Errata is up.

Obsessive Collectors and Experimental Creations were changed.

Obsessive collectors now only triggers on unit destruction

Experimental Creations only works with Melee poisoned weapons.

this pisses me off so much. Like why nerf it? now experimental creations litterally only affect wracks and haemies..... this is so dumb , feth GW

Agreed.

Also they better have made EC better on that enemy unit destruction or it's never going to be taken.

Dissies spam is still solid and untouched though and better. Still though screw gw.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:
Phoenix Rising FAQ/Errata is up.

Obsessive Collectors and Experimental Creations were changed.

Obsessive collectors now only triggers on unit destruction

Experimental Creations only works with Melee poisoned weapons.

this pisses me off so much. Like why nerf it? now experimental creations litterally only affect wracks and haemies..... this is so dumb , feth GW

Jesus thats lame. There is now officially nothing in that book I am interested in using. Admittedly obsessive colletors was going to make my unit of 3 talos very hard to kill. But it wasn't as strong as double shots, an extra attack, extra ap, move and shoot heavy weapons with out penalties and re roll 1s. Oh and take an extra warlord trait or 2.

 warmaster21 wrote:
Phoenix Rising FAQ/Errata is up.

Obsessive Collectors and Experimental Creations were changed.

Obsessive collectors now only triggers on unit destruction

Experimental Creations only works with Melee poisoned weapons. (edit for clarity), still get the +1 strength across the board, only the +1 to poison wound rolls applies only to poison melee weapons, assuming your strength is still higher than their toughness.

The best part is that GW has fulfilled their obligation to give DE new models and rules.

I'm sure this will tide us over for at least another decade.