Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I’m excited for it!

 Dysartes wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So what you mean is that either he doesn't have a degrading profile, or his degrading profile has a new value for every stat?

Yes.

Say that again ?

Yes.

No.

 dan2026 wrote:
I like how the Space Wolf side doesn't actually have any Space Wolf models...Ragnar excluded.

Why are those space wolf primaris models, that are part of the space wolves armies, and that have the space wolf keyword, because they are the future of the space wolf chapter, which in the future will be made only of space wolves primaris, not considered space wolves models?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You realise it's per PHASE right? He can easily be killed in 1 turn. Enough with your hyperbole.

You call out others on hyperbole and yet pretend it's easy to kill Gazhkull in one turn, which is obvious hyperbole.

tulun wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Pray tell, how are dark eldar, tau, sisters, necrons, knights going to kill him in 1 turn? After that, how are you landing 12 wounds across 3 phases reliably turn 1 with other armies?

He said in 1 turn, not turn 1.

Smite him, shoot him, then charge him.

He specifically listed all armies that don't have any access to Smite, and cannot do any psychic powers.

pm713 wrote:
I remember the last time they did a Wolves V Orks box set I was all for it. Now I really cannot see any part of that I would want.

Its going to depend on the cost of the box, but given the absurd cost of the meganobs kit, it might have value to some who want them plus one or two other things in the box.

Though a box set that consists of 5 kits total is a bit on the surreal side.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

He specifically listed all armies that don't have any access to Smite, and cannot do any psychic powers.

And if ork player lets smite to be real issue for Ghaz...

...Well then he deserves to lose. Ghaz has no special weakness "you may target smite even if he's not closest target" rule.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

You call out others on hyperbole and yet pretend it's easy to kill Gazhkull in one turn, which is obvious hyperbole.

Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

Why does every marine box have to have skinny-leg marines? I would have bought this box if it had something other than that, despite not really wanting any of the ork troops either, but this is a pass from me due to yet more skinny-leg-no-shoulder marines.

im more worried about the rules for space wolves.

the video said wolves are brought inline with the otehr marines, and get doctrines. and they only mention doctrines, and strats.

orks get new klans, (custom klans?) grot clans and a whole bunch of other rules.
-------

so are wolves just codex compliant now?

:(

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

You must be joking given how many armies can only harm Gazhkull in two phases a turn, or for some of them only in one phase.
My sisters will "easily" (still require significant commitment) remove 4 wounds in the shooting phase. Will struggle but can possibly remove 4 wounds in the close combat phase. No other phase where I can do any kind of damage.
Tau have an even worse deal trying to remove wounds of him in the assault phase, if he doesn't give them a free overwatch turn.

Triszin wrote:
im more worried about the rules for space wolves.

the video said wolves are brought inline with the otehr marines, and get doctrines. and they only mention doctrines, and strats.

orks get new klans, (custom klans?) grot clans and a whole bunch of other rules.
-------

so are wolves just codex compliant now?

:(

You have to be joking?

So far every single PA that has featured marines and another faction has seen more rules and many more pages for the Marines. Every. Single. One.

I wouldn't worry.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

You call out others on hyperbole and yet pretend it's easy to kill Gazhkull in one turn, which is obvious hyperbole.

Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

With 280 points, or 560 if we're being generous. I'm curious how you'd do this on turn 2 or 3 assuming a deepstriking Ghaz is calling a Waaagh the turn he appears.

Or why you'd want to, I think killing him is going to be very hard for most armies outside an Arena of Death where it's just him vs some other stuff. In one turn almost impossible if you're not just throwing unlimited points at him or setting a scenario specifically so you can do it (which is going to be difficult in a real game). With an army that you would take to fight orks that might have Ghaz in them, would you have the tools to kill him in one go?

I reckon it's most about surviving two rounds against him in close combat and getting 4W a turn, rather than one shotting him before he gets to do anything.

However, a lot of of his points are going to be that he gets his Waaagh off and is a beast in close combat. And possibly doubling the effect of the Goff trait around him, whilst Makari also gives them a 6++ - not done the maths to see if that's really relevant or just a slight boost.
Containment, rather than focusing.

I'm glad that new unit rumor didn't pan out so I'm not tempted to get the box. But the audio drama could be entertaining.

Triszin wrote:
im more worried about the rules for space wolves.

the video said wolves are brought inline with the otehr marines, and get doctrines. and they only mention doctrines, and strats.

orks get new klans, (custom klans?) grot clans and a whole bunch of other rules.
-------

so are wolves just codex compliant now?

:(

Its gonna be the same level of content the BA and DA got.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

You must be joking given how many armies can only harm Gazhkull in two phases a turn, or for some of them only in one phase.
My sisters will "easily" (still require significant commitment) remove 4 wounds in the shooting phase. Will struggle but can possibly remove 4 wounds in the close combat phase. No other phase where I can do any kind of damage.
Tau have an even worse deal trying to remove wounds of him in the assault phase, if he doesn't give them a free overwatch turn.

'Give them a free overwatch turn'? So this massive, slow model magically just appears in close combat? K.

I've said what Tau can do if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread - they kite him because he only moves 7 MAX and their best units can fly anyway.

Sisters won't have any problems either.

But let's imagine your hyperbole to be true, so what? He dies on the second/third turn having accomplished nothing and certainly not having killed his points back. Great 280odd point spend.

I play Tau and have 0 fear of him. He's just as easely ignored as Guilliman or Abaddon. Just give him something to eat each turn.


Also, sisters can easely do 4 wounds on meele and shooting. i mean sisters have some of the best combat units of the game in repentia or even arco flagelllants.

 Tastyfish wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

You call out others on hyperbole and yet pretend it's easy to kill Gazhkull in one turn, which is obvious hyperbole.

Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

With 280 points, or 560 if we're being generous. I'm curious how you'd do this on turn 2 or 3 assuming a deepstriking Ghaz is calling a Waaagh the turn he appears.

Or why you'd want to, I think killing him is going to be very hard for most armies outside an Arena of Death where it's just him vs some other stuff. In one turn almost impossible if you're not just throwing unlimited points at him or setting a scenario specifically so you can do it (which is going to be difficult in a real game). With an army that you would take to fight orks that might have Ghaz in them, would you have the tools to kill him in one go?

I reckon it's most about surviving two rounds against him in close combat and getting 4W a turn, rather than one shotting him before he gets to do anything.

However, a lot of of his points are going to be that he gets his Waaagh off and is a beast in close combat. And possibly doubling the effect of the Goff trait around him, whilst Makari also gives them a 6++ - not done the maths to see if that's really relevant or just a slight boost.
Containment, rather than focusing.

Calling a WAAAAAGGGHH!?

I agree with your assessment of how to deal with him but you seem to using rules from a different edition.

He teleports and makes other units charge when they advanced.

Overwatch will be going into the other units, whilst he wades in afterwards (assuming that there was something that was a threat to him in overwatch range, otherwise he could tank a few hits for the boyz).
Grand Waaagh is a Waaagh isn't it? He's just got to be within 6" to trigger it, no need to start your turn within range - just as when you call a charge.

So far every single PA that has featured marines and another faction has seen more rules and many more pages for the Marines. Every. Single. One.

I wouldn't worry.

So GW recycling the same 35 pages isn't exactly new rules. Each PA with Marines has had more like 1-2 pages of new rules.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Not really? 12 T7, 4++ wounds are not difficult to remove in a turn across 3 phases.

You must be joking given how many armies can only harm Gazhkull in two phases a turn, or for some of them only in one phase.
My sisters will "easily" (still require significant commitment) remove 4 wounds in the shooting phase. Will struggle but can possibly remove 4 wounds in the close combat phase. No other phase where I can do any kind of damage.
Tau have an even worse deal trying to remove wounds of him in the assault phase, if he doesn't give them a free overwatch turn.

Sisters can actually do damage in movement phase. I enjoy killing unit there for an extra MD

Melee depends can you get charge off to it. If you can both repentia and arco flagelants can get that 4 wounds.

Trick is doing all that in quick succession to prevent painboy healing d3 wounds negating half a phase right away.

The WAAAAAAGGHH! aura is always active, like any warboss. He doesn't need to 'activate' it.

His chances of making a charge from deep strike are less than 50%. He has 5 attacks until he takes damage. He fires 12 str 5 ap1 shots at BS5+....

The most basic of screens makes the Ghaz investment worthless for an Ork player. I can't believe we're having this discussion.

He's not some autowin button and will require incredible luck/finesse to use well. To be honest, as a [MONSTER] I think he has no competitive play at all.

Lovely model though. It'll be nice for fun games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Justyn wrote:

So far every single PA that has featured marines and another faction has seen more rules and many more pages for the Marines. Every. Single. One.

I wouldn't worry.

So GW recycling the same 35 pages isn't exactly new rules. Each PA with Marines has had more like 1-2 pages of new rules.

No, it has had like 12 pages of new rules for marines and 8 for none marines. Datasheets not included.

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Well you would find ork players who would complain even if he had 2++ rerolled with half the points.

this is rich coming from someone where most of his posts is complaining.

Chopstick wrote:
2020 battle box. An army consist of a single squad (or 2) and a dude....

Pretty pathetic. And the damn thing'll cost over AUD$350 as well.

Why is the Ork’s equivalent of a Primarch stuck in a lame box set? Along with another space wolf character being stuck in it too? I hope I can get Ghazghkull cheap enough on eBay.

Yeah ill likely be trying to get him off a reseller on ebay since the rest of ork contents I dont really need....but im guessing the cost of just Ghaz is gonna be like 50% of the box price

Why is the Ork’s equivalent of a Primarch stuck in a lame box set? Along with another space wolf character being stuck in it too? I hope I can get Ghazghkull cheap enough on eBay.

I think this is pretty much the consensus. I'll pick up a Ragnar on ebay if I can get one cheap enough. If not I'll wait for single release. I really feel GW is getting lazier and lazier with these releases. This is just trying to cash in on new characters by including troops most people already have.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I'm glad that new unit rumor didn't pan out so I'm not tempted to get the box. But the audio drama could be entertaining.

Triszin wrote:
im more worried about the rules for space wolves.

the video said wolves are brought inline with the otehr marines, and get doctrines. and they only mention doctrines, and strats.

orks get new klans, (custom klans?) grot clans and a whole bunch of other rules.
-------

so are wolves just codex compliant now?

:(

Its gonna be the same level of content the BA and DA got.

And more than any other sub-sub faction is ever going to get - Yeah the entire ORK faction gets a few crumbs left over from the vast IMPERIUM Faction table - which the Space Wovles are a very small part of depsite their vast bloated range.

Don't worry Wolves will still doubtless be Wulfy Wulf Wulfs rather than the Space Wolves.

Do we honestly expect this box to be only $120?

Ghaz should be at least Guilliman/Abaddon priced + Makiri, the Meganobz are 49,- (Euros), Nobz 22,50, Ragnar 32,50 and the Infiltrators 45,-.

That is about 200,- (Euros) worth of models. I doubt we’d get a 80,- discount so I wouldn’t be surprised if this box costs at least 150,-.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The WAAAAAAGGHH! aura is always active, like any warboss. He doesn't need to 'activate' it.

His chances of making a charge from deep strike are less than 50%. He has 5 attacks until he takes damage. He fires 12 str 5 ap1 shots at BS5+....

The most basic of screens makes the Ghaz investment worthless for an Ork player. I can't believe we're having this discussion.

He's not some autowin button and will require incredible luck/finesse to use well. To be honest, as a [MONSTER] I think he has no competitive play at all.

Lovely model though. It'll be nice for fun games.

I think you're underselling +1A on a Goff unit that charged when it was within 6" of him, when they also get the fight twice strat. Which you can get if you tail back units so they have a model within 6" of where he can deep strike (a chain of ammo runts...)
You almost need to reverse screen to make sure that he can't drop where he can buff a line of ork units (easily 18" with a few stragglers). If he can buff 40 boyz over three rounds of combat, he's made his points back if he doesn't even get his Klaws dirty, which is a little easier when one unit is going to have two rounds in the ork turn. I've assumed boyz are the most points efficient fighters, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

Also a 9" charge is about 55% successful with 'Ere we go and being able to selectively reroll any of the dice.

He's not an autowin, and you'll need to build your army around him - but saying he's useless as he's far too easy to kill just seems wrong. The turn you'll have to kill him is after the greentide has hit you, but with a 50% chance of him having not joined in too - at which point a lot of the damage has been done. Plus it seems he'd fit in reasonably well with current Ork army builds, rather than requiring a total rejigging of everything.

Justyn wrote:

Why is the Ork’s equivalent of a Primarch stuck in a lame box set? Along with another space wolf character being stuck in it too? I hope I can get Ghazghkull cheap enough on eBay.

I think this is pretty much the consensus. I'll pick up a Ragnar on ebay if I can get one cheap enough. If not I'll wait for single release. I really feel GW is getting lazier and lazier with these releases. This is just trying to cash in on new characters by including troops most people already have.

Yeah I too feel like GW are getting lazy with these box sets. It really does just look like, “ah, peeps want these new characters and we want to make some sweet cash for the quarterly return. Let’s just lug some extras with them in a box set so they need to spend more for them, while disguising it as a bargain!”

Luckily, Star Wars Legion is a thing and it’s looking more and more appealing.

Voss wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I remember the last time they did a Wolves V Orks box set I was all for it. Now I really cannot see any part of that I would want.

Its going to depend on the cost of the box, but given the absurd cost of the meganobs kit, it might have value to some who want them plus one or two other things in the box.

Though a box set that consists of 5 kits total is a bit on the surreal side.

Some of it is just me because I refuse to use Primaris and I'd rather use my converted Ragnar than the weird jumping one.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Why is the Ork’s equivalent of a Primarch stuck in a lame box set? Along with another space wolf character being stuck in it too? I hope I can get Ghazghkull cheap enough on eBay.

a) ghaz isn't primarch equilavent
b) guess players really want to pay more for models rather than get discounts. Guess gw should just drop all discount boxes, start collecting sets etc and let players buy with no discounts since every time gw releases discount box there's just complaining. Let players pay full price with no discounts since that's what they want.

Could understand if nobody could get models without buying discount box but since that's not so it's basicxally "we don't want discounts. We just want to pay full price!"

b) guess players really want to pay more for models rather than get discounts. Guess gw should just drop all discount boxes, start collecting sets etc and let players buy with no discounts since every time gw releases discount box there's just complaining. Let players pay full price with no discounts since that's what they want.

Could understand if nobody could get models without buying discount box but since that's not so it's basicxally "we don't want discounts. We just want to pay full price!"

Its not a discount if you have to buy a bunch of crap no one wants or already has. Then its just a markup.