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1850 points:

Boss on bike, klaw, squig, 5+ inv

big mek, kff

15 commandos, 2 burnas, snikrot

2X14 lootas

4X30 shootas, klaw nob, 3 rokkits each

2 koptas, TL rokkits.

That's 168 models I'd have to paint, but I think it would be pretty effective.

I test ran an army very similar to that and let me tell you- you dont realize how much time you invest setting up and actually moving till you do it. You end up taking difficult terrain tests every turn, there is just no way to avoid all terrain. And while waagh! did help, it was very cumbersome. The force I run now is a biker warboss, KFF mekboy, 2 full loota squads, 2 full trukk units, 4 deff koptas, 2 squads of 22 sluggas, two grot lobbas (more useful than i realized), 15 stormboyz with zaggy (may switch to a nob for less cheeze) and usually a battlewagon. Thats only 128 models, and that is still unweildy at times.

While it would be pretty irritating I suspect with some practice you could get the movement down. Deployment will take for bloody ever.

You could also go with all plastics, and literally cake them in sealant, and just kinda pour them out in handfuls and stand them up as it's convenient

The list looks absolutely deadly though. That is a ton of firepower. I expect even the Falcon swarm will have major issues, because harlequins lose in points when they charge 30 orkz

Harlies aren't going to be charging regular orks. They'll be charging lootas. But there are ways to avoid that.

If I build this, I'll make movement trays so I can just set down 30 orks. I'll make one for if the enemy doesn't have blast weapons/templares, and another for if they do. So I'll only be moving 7 or 8 'things' a turn. I'll make it out of clear lexan so I can see the terrain under it.

So if you were building an army specifically to beat this, or picking a mission that would favor you, what would you bring/pick?

Depends on what army I was using to fight that with. Space marines for example I would use a land raider, orks have few reliable ways to deal with av 14, although av 13 and under with 2 squads of lootas are cake for us now. Also If i wanted to be extremely cheezy 3 whirlwinds with mine laying would ruin that armies day. With tau I would use hammerheads with the pie plate, stealthsuit teams maxed out with the BS upgrade wargear, and lots of kroot. But buiding an army specifically to fight someone else is kinda cheezy, so I would probably just play my normal all comers lists and take my lumps.

I've played against 3 hammerheads already. It's just too many bodies for them to deal with, particularly when it's all got a cover save. But it does force me to spread out and makes the game somewhat annoying. But I march across the board and they simply can't shoot me fast enough.

marines:

Librarian w/ jump pack and Fury (flank multi unit hits)
cheap commander

HB razors and HB/missile marines

typhoons

whirlwind

something to act as counter charge...assault marines or comand squad... to protect the whirlwinds.

ender502

ender502 wrote:marines:

Librarian w/ jump pack and Fury (flank multi unit hits)
cheap commander

HB razors and HB/missile marines

typhoons

whirlwind

something to act as counter charge...assault marines or comand squad... to protect the whirlwinds.

ender502

Oh dont forget to add a vindicare assassin for targeting independant characters, specificially ones with kustom force fields.

i would hate to see this turn into another "i made the uber ork list, nothing is gonna stop it" thread like the one over at another gaming site.

i would like to thank the OP for at least having a boss in there and something else besides raw firepower. i do expect to see alot of these kind of armies popping up though. the KFF mek will be a cornerstone i feel. while its on a 5+, its better then nothing.

but at 1850 i think alot of armies are gonna be able to knock the list around. especially ones fast on their toes. thankfully you run things with rokkits. this guy on the other site was putting all his AT trust in PK nobz, which isnt something i would like to trust as my sole AV 14 tankbusting.

i know one list personally that would nuke this list to no end, but the guy that plays it rarely even plays anymore, so your relativly safe

now go paint it!

The way you beat an all ork foot army is with templates and mobility.

Templates to spread them out, and mobility to crush half the army and leave the slow/short-ranged half to itself.

Or run a heavy bolter army and chop chop.

I've thought about all foot Ork lists and the biggest problem, IMO, would be new chaos. Load out two Lash HQ's, 3 Havoc squads like the boyz in Ohio like to do (Heavy Bolters and Autocannons), then 2-3 big troop squads. The rest of the chaos list can be whatever. The idea is to castle in a corner and deny the 160+ Orks the table space to threaten with all their troops. The Havocs chew through the 2 nearest units while the HQ's Lash the middle distance units back. Chaos wouldn't have to destroy all 30 Orks in shooting, just get them low enough to where the 10-man troop squads, with their 20 attacks, can receive a charge and decimate the whittled down unit of Orks. I suppose 2 big Loota squads would need to be targeted first and the nearest Ork troops Lashed backwards until the Lootas run.

In some manner, Lash of Submission is the biggest bane of 30-man Ork Boyz units. If Chaos can force 120+ boyz to have to move into one corner of the board, it will severely hamper the Orks movement. Combine this with Lash and it could make it very difficult for the Ork troops to get into Combat.

Snikrot can assault the Chaos Castle, but 10 basic Chaos marines charging in on the next turn with 30 attacks should clear out all those commandoes. I think even footsloggers need some speed to reach out and touch the enemy very quickly where the enemy does not want to be touched.

mauleed wrote:...particularly when it's all got a cover save.

I doubt that. Kff is good but not That good. I have no idea how you are placing your orks but atleast two of those squads had to be outside of Kff if they were all bunched together. I even had a hard time doing it when I ran deathskullz with the CA rules. If I were an ork going up against you, I'd probably just mount up in trukks and take a bunch of burnas/lootas. I'd still take my choppas too seeing as you'll have to be 18 in away to shoot me with the shootas but I guess I'm just "old school" now.

I'd just use my Mech Tau hybrid list... why because its what a got. Actually set the firewarriors up gunline, land my devilfishs with SMS systems to block your LOS to the juicy parts of my list. Naturally first and formost is taking out the lootas. 7 SMS systems and an infiltrating stealth team should be good enough. Use the first few turns (that they live) of my pathfinders to ensure 2+ to hits 2-3+ to wounds will really hurt, 5+ save or not.

Actually Snitrot is a problem, but a unit of kroot behind my pathfinders and broadsides will protect them.

The funny thing is, orks once the unit is small enough can get pinned fairly easily. I think you will not be able to avoid shooting at gundrones. Those pinning tests can become somewhat reliable.

Anyway, thats what I'd try. The list is pretty much unchanged from what I normally run.

Zargyboy wrote:

mauleed wrote:...particularly when it's all got a cover save.

I doubt that. Kff is good but not That good. I have no idea how you are placing your orks but atleast two of those squads had to be outside of Kff if they were all bunched together. I even had a hard time doing it when I ran deathskullz with the CA rules. If I were an ork going up against you, I'd probably just mount up in trukks and take a bunch of burnas/lootas. I'd still take my choppas too seeing as you'll have to be 18 in away to shoot me with the shootas but I guess I'm just "old school" now.

Actually the way it is worded now it gives a 5+ cover save to every model in the group even if only ONE of them is within 6 inches. Its stupidly easy to daisy chain 10 orks 2 inches apart to a 20 man squad 20 inches away from the mek and still get the saves. Killing that mek really will be a high priority, but 3 hammerheads with railguns should put a dent in em, but first and foremost they better be putting a dent in the lootas, or they wont be there next turn. With my lootas so far at a full 15 unit I have not failed to kill any av 13 and under vehicle I have shot at yet. 4 or 5 glancing shots on a hammerhead will ruin its day.

This is where your Tau player needs to think things through a little better. Hammerheads are mobile, Lootas are not. Using terrain you should be able to limit the number of lootas that can actually shoot at your Hammerhead. I think a lot of people are underestimating them and just parking out in front. They can produce a ton of shots. The trick will be to limit what they can see using your superior mobility or other LOS blockers.

Jayden63 wrote:Actually Snitrot is a problem, but a unit of kroot behind my pathfinders and broadsides will protect them

Not a chance they will. They'll get speed bumped and run off the board pretty much instantly/guaranteed every time.

Trust me.

My 2000 point IG list would work pretty well against this. I run 2 Hellhounds and 2 Russes I'd probably drop one of my Las/Plas Squads, take Flamethrowers instead of Plasmas and Meltas on my Stormies and Vets, and toss my two 3x Autocannon teams and use them as my heavy weapons in place of Lascannons in my Line Squads.

The main rush would be devastated by two Inferno Cannons and two Battle Cannons, amongst other things, but Snikrot would be a problem. I'd keep my pair of Sentinels in the backfield to tie him up in close combat once he's assaulted one of my squads.

Aside from him and his Kommandos, I think my list would tear that up. Hellhounds are pure gold for IG commanders against Orks.

CK

Stelek wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Actually Snitrot is a problem, but a unit of kroot behind my pathfinders and broadsides will protect them

Not a chance they will. They'll get speed bumped and run off the board pretty much instantly/guaranteed every time.

Trust me.

One round of speed bump, thats all you need. Its 15 orks stranded outside cover. The kroot will die surely, but next turn the Kommandos go away. Especially if the Kommandos show up early in the game, say turn 2-3 where I still have a lot more of my guns around to finish them off.

VP wise, its no different taking the turn of shooting away from the other orks. Killing them is more cost effective than shooting at the boys mobs for one turn.

Agreed. I'd probably avoid kroot if possible unless no other target presented itself. But because they come in from any board edge, I'm betting there'll be some other target somewhere.

mauleed wrote:Harlies aren't going to be charging regular orks. They'll be charging lootas. But there are ways to avoid that.

Yeah because a harlie unit can totally stand a possible of 84 lootas shots before they charge in?

Jayden63 wrote:This is where your Tau player needs to think things through a little better. Hammerheads are mobile, Lootas are not. Using terrain you should be able to limit the number of lootas that can actually shoot at your Hammerhead. I think a lot of people are underestimating them and just parking out in front. They can produce a ton of shots. The trick will be to limit what they can see using your superior mobility or other LOS blockers.

sure use terrain to block los to the HH or w/e. But if the lootas are deployed in a good position then your retty screwed. Tactics = Countertactics.

Weedy git! You stole my Snikrot mob idea!

I still think Mobz of 30 are too big, and as I've found out moving the whole horde towards a gunline blows.

I also think you'd want Storm Boyz in there, at least one unit to put the pressure on. You need something maneuverable in the army. The horde is too slow without it.

EDIT:

To beat it I'd probably use 3 Whirlwinds in a standard marine army, with some Assault Marines to pre-emptive charge before things got really dangerous.

You can snipe the KFF mek with a template, and if he joins a unit to avoid template sniping you can simply pound whatever unit he's in till it's not fearless and can be made to fall back taking the KFF with him.

Necron Destroyer lists will also put a ton of hurt down, though Snikrot will hurt them a little, if the Necron player is smart he can possibly sacrifice a squad and stay safe.

Orock wrote:Actually the way it is worded now it gives a 5+ cover save to every model in the group even if only ONE of them is within 6 inches. Its stupidly easy to daisy chain 10 orks 2 inches apart to a 20 man squad 20 inches away from the mek and still get the saves.

Just as my 2 cents, I would wager large sums of money on the fact that this will not be the case in a few months when clarifications come out as 1) it does not make sense and 2) it is pretty darn cheap. Also, I would be worried about units jumping in from greater than 18" away and assaulting the orks. Is it possible that you could fit in some gretchen to protect them/ even draw the occasional targeting priority?

Codicier-135
-Force Weapon, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor, Fear of Darkness
Terminator Command Squad-200
-2 Assault Cannons

Codicier-135
-Force Weapon, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor, Fear of Darkness
Terminator Command Squad-200
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

6 Scouts-108
-5 Snipers Rifles, Heavy Bolter

6 Scouts-108
-5 Snipers Rifles, Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder Tornado-80
-Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder Tornado-80
-Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder Tornado-80
-Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter

19.25 dead orks from Assault Cannons a turn.
4.44 dead orks from Heavy Bolters a turn.
2.77 dead orks from sniper fire a turn.
5.77 dead orks from storm bolters
=32.23 Dead Orks a turn from shooting, including the 5+ invlunrable save from the KFF

If I'm able to see the lootas or commandos, I'll be able to get them down below 12 models and then cast fear of darkness on two of them, while the third makes a pinning check from sniper fire.
If not, I'll just whittle down 1 of your big hordes to below 12 models, and then cast fear of darkness on them, getting them to run away. You've got 168 models, and while I'm killing 32.23 orks a turn, the only real things I have to worry about you killing are my scouts, and keeping my landspeeders out of sight of your lootas. Besides that, there's no AP 2 guns in you arsenal, so the termies should survive long enough to dish out their damage. I think it would end up being an extremly close game.

And if you really want a list designed to destroy your army, here goes....

Drop Troops, Iron Discipline, Xenos Fighters: Orks, Veterans, Special Weapons Squads

Last Chancers-604
Colonel Schaeffer-75
-Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Macharian Cross, Medallion Crimson, Carapace Armor, Bionics
Kage
-Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, "Crazy"
5 Specialists
-Demolition Charges
14 Specialists
-Plasmaguns

Command Platoon-203
Junior Officer-55
-Plasma Pistol, Iron Discipline
4 Guardsmen-24
-4 Flamers
Special Weapon Squad-63
-2 Flamers, Demolition Charge
Special Weapon Squad-63
-2 Flamers, Demolition Charge

Infantry Platoon-232
Junior Officer-55
-Plasma Pistol, Iron Discipline
4 Guardsmen-24
-4 Flamers
Infantry Squad-66
-Flamer
Infantry Squad-66
-Flamer
Remnant Squad-36
-Flamer

Infantry Platoon-232
Junior Officer-55
-Plasma Pistol, Iron Discipline
4 Guardsmen-24
-4 Flamers
Infantry Squad-66
-Flamer
Infantry Squad-66
-Flamer
Remnant Squad-36
-Flamer

5 Veterans-63
-3 Flamers

5 Veterans-63
-3 Flamers

5 Veterans-63
-3 Flamers

Basilisk-125
-Indirect Fire

Basilisk-125
-Indirect Fire

Basilisk-145
-Indirect Fire, Improved comms

With 168 models, your deployment zone is going to be packed turn one and turn two... which should leave plenty of nice meaty targets for the basilisks.... then when the guys start dropping down, they're throwing 7 demo charges and packing 31 flamers, 14 plasmaguns, 4 plasma pistols, and 56 flashlights. If each flamer only hits 3 orks, that's 31 dead from flamers, + 10.37 from the plasmaguns, +1.11 from the plasmapistols, +12.44 from the flashlights, + 22.22 if each of the pie plates only hit 4 orks= 77.14 dead orks when the army drops.... realisticly though I should only have 79% (the basilisks + 75% of what I have left in reserve, as I need a 4+ on the first attempt, and then I get a reroll for improved comms) so that would be 60.94 dead orks when the army drops, including your KFF save and 6.66 dead orks from turn one's round of shooting with the basilisks.... of course there are severable non calcable factors, such as what if I scatter onto you, or off the table, etc. There's also the issue of whether or not I'll be able to survive your counter charge, which is effected by which units I hit, as if I spread it out correctly (not likely), I can kill 20.31 from 3 of your big units, reducing their size to below 10 models, making them leadership 9 and requiring leadership tests at -1 for below half. With only 9 models from three of the big hordes charging me, I think I'd be able to survive, even if the 15 commandos also charged in and the other big unit.... especially considering that the other 21% of my army will hopefull come on the next turn..... but you'll never face an army like this.... because flamers suck against marines, and no one takes xenos fighters

Zargyboy wrote:

Orock wrote:Actually the way it is worded now it gives a 5+ cover save to every model in the group even if only ONE of them is within 6 inches. Its stupidly easy to daisy chain 10 orks 2 inches apart to a 20 man squad 20 inches away from the mek and still get the saves.

Just as my 2 cents, I would wager large sums of money on the fact that this will not be the case in a few months when clarifications come out as 1) it does not make sense and 2) it is pretty darn cheap. Also, I would be worried about units jumping in from greater than 18" away and assaulting the orks. Is it possible that you could fit in some gretchen to protect them/ even draw the occasional targeting priority?

The only unit in the game (that I'm aware of) that can charge more than 18" is an ork in a trukk. 12" move, 2" deploy, 6" Waagh!, 6" charge= 26" charge.

Don't forget the extra 1" for red paint...

Stormboyz can charge, if they roll a 6, 24", yes? 12 for jump, 6 for the pack, then 6 charge.

Hormies can also charge up to 24, 6" move, 6" fleet, 12" charge.


Either that or I have been horribly screwing up and most apologize to those I play against.

But yes, it seems that Trukk boyz have the longest charge I'm aware with the trukk and red paint.

Angron wrote:The only unit in the game (that I'm aware of) that can charge more than 18" is an ork in a trukk. 12" move, 2" deploy, 6" Waagh!, 6" charge= 26" charge.

Bingo my boyz'll be up on ur flank killin' ur boyz before you know it, or at least long enought to give time for reinforcements to arrive. I think that I can deny them the chance to shoot or at least grab a few inches of ground by the threat of it. Of course you could come up with tactics to counter this but then I can have counter-counter tactics! Then 40k does become like chess!!!!

lemurking23 wrote:The only unit in the game (that I'm aware of) that can charge more than 18" is an ork in a trukk. 12" move, 2" deploy, 6" Waagh!, 6" charge= 26" charge.

Actually there is one unit that can beat that charge distance. Dark Eldar Wyches in a Raider who get the 12" assault combat drug. 12" move, 2" deploy, 6" Fleet, 12" charge = 32" charge.

Anyhow the list looks pretty good. As others have said, it will be really annoying to fit and move all of those models.

What was the 168th model? I only count 167...sorry to be pedantic :S

Does Snikrot mean that you can boost the numbers in the squad to above 15?

Can you take snikrot to lead the unit without having to buy that 15th kommando first?

In any tourney that is going to be scary. Like I've said before, 'More orks than you can shoot' is a valid strategy when your opponent has to meta against power armor.

The best counter is going to be a gunline, almost any gunline, packed with HBs and a few flamers and templates. But you won't find that in any tourney.

Another big problem would be a Monolith. A land raider you can klaw to death, but that's chancy against a 'lith and the Gauss Arcs are going to hurt. The rest of the Necron army may just roll over and die. Warriors can't hurt that.

Perhaps Godzilla? Lots of mobile firepower, but they'd have troubles against rockets if everything doesn't have a 2+ and the CC portions of their army would be nigh useless.