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Therion wrote: You of all people encouraging others to play this way or even more so to convert their models so that they can better abuse the rule is nothing short of sad.

Obviously you haven't seen the new trukk model. It doesn't need my encouragement at all.

Where do I find that part in the rulebook that says you can't move infantry after deployed? I've seen that disembark table, and what I understand from it can you with the unit after riding with a fast vechile move normally if you haven't moved more than 12" with the transport. Or is it that you can just disembark if you have moved max 12"?

What's sad is that you've become just another joker

if someone pulls this clearly legal move on me, I'm not going to have a single problem with it. And anyone that does is at best of questionable character themselves, or at worst a filthy cheater.

I know this is what you always say in any discussion regarding composition, sportsmanship, fairplay, cheating etc, and you think it's somehow clever. It isn't. The world isn't black and white and neither is the game you're playing. Warhammer Fantasy battle for example is absolutely ridden with these same holes that you're proposing here but a certain level of gentlemanship usually prevails. We don't do first turn charges with our Saurus Cav/Tomb Guard/VC units even though we know we could do it by abusing the formation/turn/turn/add ranks rules. You're arguing that players who believe that some rules break the game and are grossly unfair are questionable characters, but you have absolutely nothing to back that statement up. It's quite different to debate the rules of the game beforehand than doing it during the game when you're losing. You would like to think that it's the same of course, and if people don't officially agree with your interpretation of an ambiguous rule you'll boycott the tournament altogether.

You seem to have some pre-existing idea on how your opponents should or should not react whenever you can't win by playing a regular game and need to convert your trukks so that you get longer assault ranges. They might play you but they don't have to agree with what you're doing or even like you one bit. You can then go on and play a martyr, get offended about it, and shift all the blame on GW. In the end, you'll be the same joker you've always been. The guy who's never shy of borderline cheating, playing ambiguous rules to his advantage before they have been clarified, abusing every loophole he knows (and trying to find new ones) and calling people interested in sportsmanship and composition and a more balanced gaming system questionable characters.

These posts are getting awfully close to personal attacks, gentlemen. If you'd like to continue this debate, take it to You Make Da Call.

I can see what you're doing with the KFF and long marching lines of Orks. Tough to do anything about that, Hobin ran the same style with his Feral Orks.

I gotta ask, why take the Boss over a Warphead? The 50% chance of a Waaagh or a Teleport looks great. Dumping all those shootas and rokkits behind an vehicle, even skimmers, gives you a unit shooting that is equivalent to Lootas at the target... and puts your Orks in unpredictable places, which can be tough for enemies to handle.

I'd think double-Warphead lists might have it over Snikrot, because (a) by turn 1 you've got a 50% chance of being in position to shoot and turn 2 you're arriving, vs Snikrot where you've got a 50% chance on turn 2, (b) it's cheap, and (c) it ain't a special character. Plus, 30 shootas ain't chump change to be dropping on anyone.

But then I wouldn't get to model a boss on a bike.

JTS1486 wrote:I can see what you're doing with the KFF and long marching lines of Orks. Tough to do anything about that, Hobin ran the same style with his Feral Orks.

I gotta ask, why take the Boss over a Warphead? The 50% chance of a Waaagh or a Teleport looks great. Dumping all those shootas and rokkits behind an vehicle, even skimmers, gives you a unit shooting that is equivalent to Lootas at the target... and puts your Orks in unpredictable places, which can be tough for enemies to handle.

I'd think double-Warphead lists might have it over Snikrot, because (a) by turn 1 you've got a 50% chance of being in position to shoot and turn 2 you're arriving, vs Snikrot where you've got a 50% chance on turn 2, (b) it's cheap, and (c) it ain't a special character. Plus, 30 shootas ain't chump change to be dropping on anyone.

Ya weedy gits it nutz if ya fink da Boss ain't takin' da boyz ta battle. I'll personally assure that my boss kills both uv da so-kalled "leaderz", dem crazy wierd boyz, and claimz your mob fer hiz own. What kinda stoopid clan haz no boss? Dat's just nutz. You obviouly ain't an ork!

Oh, okay. How about a Warboss on a 4-wheeler using the old warbuggy model as the foundation then?

Nah, Warboss on an akira bike to go with my samurai stormboyz



But now you've got me thinking about taking a warphead. It saves a bunch of points, and the idea of teleporting 30 orks is kind of neat.

But then the koptas aren't half as good.

I vote for putting him on a skeletal horse. Ooo, freakeh!

If you're going to run the Warphead you're better off trying for a Waaagh every turn by taking two of them, and then you want to run horde Slugga Boyz instead. Getting the power you want with a Warphead is slightly worse than 1/3 of the time.

And your Warboss on Bike still won't look nearly as cool as mine does.

How annoying is 30 Shootaboyz plus Nob appearing in the place/time you're not expecting them? 20 Stormz is nice, but they're costly and your enemy knows where they're going as much as you do. Wall of Inevitability? Why not disrupt the simple plan (yours and theirs) with a Teleport?

Voodoo: getting the Waaagh Fleet Move is just a nice side-effect thing when it happens, especially because it's an *optional* Fleet. The Teleport is potentially backbreaking to carefully deployed/manouvered armies. It also gives you a nice way to not get crippled by Fzorgling, since you can bounce a big unit close enough to either (a) shoot the Prince, or (b) shoot his shielding unit and force him to deal with you. Im not sure footslogging Ork Hordes won't get close enough to do anything to him otherwise.

I guess I'm just not sold on the Bike Warboss. He looks like a big, low I, expensive, somewhat killy guy who doesn't bring much to the table above and beyond what 2 Nobz with Klaws do. Compared to the "whole army cover save" and the "WTF where'd those shootaz come from" HQ choices, I think he's not the guy for me.

-JTS

The Boss on bike is amazing because of the fact that he's a Close Combat Monster that you can guarantee delivery of because he's an IC.

He will kill almost anything he touches short of say, Mephiston or something with a Force Weapon and the S to put wounds reliably on a T6 model. After that he just munches just about anything and in games against Tau or anything with lots of shooting but squishy troops, he's a godsend. I've won a game vs a Crisis Suit Tau army mainly because I was able to deliver the Boss into CC and just took down every unit he got to, turning the Klaw off when he needed to be "Safe" from the squad dying and being left out in the open, and then putting it back on when it was their turn and I wanted to get out of CC.

He's also the best chance we've got against Monoliths, and against Godzilla he can make more than his points by going after a single heavy support Fex, and he can reliably make it through multiple fex's if given the chance.


The game changes a lot when you can guarantee a combat nasty gets delivered to CC.

That's been my experience proxying him as well. He always gets into combat, since nothing short of a railgun is going to instakill him. There are times he rolls a whole flank by himself (usually with a kopta hanging around as well).

You din't forget my last question about the trukks charging range ya ?

Trukks for those who were wondering are fast attack. So you can move up to 12" (13 if you gots a red paint job), disembark within 2 inches (basically two rows of boy bases) and charge 6". Any movement farter than 13 if red is too fast to get out and attack.

Trukks aren't "fast attack", and if they were it would make no difference.

Cander wrote:You din't forget my last question about the trukks charging range ya ?

I didn't quite understand. Can you restate.

Orock wrote:Trukks for those who were wondering are fast attack. So you can move up to 12" (13 if you gots a red paint job), disembark within 2 inches (basically two rows of boy bases) and charge 6". Any movement farter than 13 if red is too fast to get out and attack.

Why do people always say that. It's much closed to 3 rows of bases than 2. It's 2.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999", and that's only if you haven't snuck in a model with a bigger base (because you wanted to models something really cool on the base, like a dead Ultramarine).

mauleed wrote:

Cander wrote:You din't forget my last question about the trukks charging range ya ?

I didn't quite understand. Can you restate.

Is it with Red Paint Job: Move 13" with trukk, Disembark 2", move 6", Waaagh! 6" and charge 6" = 33"

My question was if the infantry Mob can after disembarkt move normaly, or does the trukk moving also take up the infantry moving that turn if they would disembark?

The trukk moving prevents the squad inside from moving normally.

Hi Mauleed, I am going to be your naysayer on the KFF mek.

For a start the shokk attack gun is too useful to ignore. I saw a list with two and two ubnits of lootas tear apart marines in two games (though I did see one blow up it took out the mek and 20 lootas in nearby cover). However its an infantry ordnance weapon, that cannot be picked out.

However that isnt my real reason. The KFF is promising for rushing forward two or three battlewagons, but is less useful than it looks at protecting footslogger orks.

Sure you can 'snake' your orks so each unit is in the 5+ save zone, maybe except the lootas who will be behind and in cover. This is where you get problems.

My answer to this is to shoot a unit on the flank of my line, and target priority test allowing shoot a unit on the far side of your horde. Now due to the range of my guns its quite easy to engineer things so that the only orks in range are the few trailing towards the Mek (who will need to be somewhere in the middle of your ranks). They get the 5+ but that wont save many and will either break your chain forcing the unit out of legal formation or will strip the unit of its save.

You will also have problems with those ordnance shells that cause you to fall back, as you are likely to catch multiple units (perhaps all of them!) because of snaking with one shell. Hellhounds are also a bitch, as are Whirlwind minefields - one mine in the middle and most of your units will have to walk through it, each time, each mine.

Also snaking units to the mek is IMHO incompatible with building movement trays, unless you effectively have four long blocks with the mek in the corner between. This also has problems as it will be difficult to get the rear blocks in range, particulalry if you are spaced to avoid ordnance.

Furthermore any attempt to snake or block your orks will all but guarantee that you will have no chance of avoiding difficult terrain, and bunching will be pretty much unavoidable.

All in all KFF infantry horde is more trouble than its worth.

Orlanth, I agree with most of your presumptions.

Personally I think it's a fine army list when run properly.

Doing close combat is, in my honest opinion, against the concept of a good KFF infantry horde.

You should be shooting the other guy. Did you see the list I posted? It's all about shooting the other guy, blocking his lines of fire, and if he wants to assault you....well, enough Orks makes for a bunch of dead guys.

on the subject of warpheads i'm thinking that once you factor in the number of psychic hoods and runes of warding you'll run into on top of their inherent unreliability it's just not a strategy you can count on.

twin KFF meks seems solid, and the biker boss is plenty killy. while i'm not convinced he's point for point better than getting more stormboyz, he is the best monolith killer in the army. and if a lith is flux arcing your boyz you probably want it dead fast.

Stelek - One way or another the ork army will have to advance 18" range block firepower insists on this.

Corinth - Taking two KFF makes more sense, in execution and deployment right up until you see how much thst costs and what returns you get from it - let alone what else you could have for HQ.
Spending too much on giving orks a save is like spending to upgrade the WS of guard. Pasting over a weakness doesnt give a good return.
t still wont solve the problems with KFF horde I mentioned above, just dilutes them somewhat.

You're equating making your orks 1/3 more resilient to shooting with upping weapon skill of guard? Sorry, but that just seems so amazingly....clueless.

Sure, snaking will have it's drawbacks, and probably isn't workable all of the time. But with units of 30, it's going to be pretty workable most of the time, or at least enough of the time to make the cost of the mech a no brainer.

Wow a little testy in here.

Taking the KFF Big Meks is more effective the more Orks you have.

I plan on having 180 covered by those 2 big meks.

What's that, less than 1 point a piece? For a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting?

I guess I don't see the drawback here, not having another HQ that doesn't give me what I'm looking for in a shooty army but picking exactly what I want?

Color me purple, I guess.