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I've seen a lot of suggestions for Ork anti-tank on the forum (Warboss on bike, Lootas, Kans w/Kustom Blasters, Mech w/SAG) but no one's really talking about any of the Big Gun variants. They seem cheap enough and the Zzap guns seem to do about as well as a SAG. Are they worth investing in? I like the style of the guns and from a fluff perspective it'd be nice to include grots in my army in some form or fashion, but I don't have a lot of cash floating around and I'd like to get to 1500 points sensibly.

SO, lol, I guess my main question is do Big Guns belong in any kind of army list? Could they be considered semi-competitive?

I think they are excellent.

All those things you listed (except the Lootas) aren't as good at AT as those are.

Zzap guns are a pain to use (seperate dice rolling), but can give you S9 or S10 shot with a re-roll @ BS3.

I just use Kannons myself.

Stelek wrote:I think they are excellent.

All those things you listed (except the Lootas) aren't as good at AT as those are.

Zzap guns are a pain to use (seperate dice rolling), but can give you S9 or S10 shot with a re-roll @ BS3.

I just use Kannons myself.

And in the end that may turn out to be their most viable anti tank period. Cheap as chips, but vunerable to shooting. I am not quite ready to call tankbustas a failure yet, and play testing the squig bombs in a small squad so far has been fun if nothing else.

To be perfectly honest, 9 cannons with ammo runts at something like, just over 300 points, seems like a pretty good buy to me.

Not great, but a reasonable substitute for Lootas in some lists.

Personally I like tankbustas, even if only for the sake of accidentally blowing up on of your own tanks with a bomb squig

Well the guns are vulnerable to template weapons and heavy bolters, but that's about it. The templates can light up your artillery without having to roll a 5 or 6 to hit them; and the heavy bolters can crunch enough grots to make you take a LD test.

BS3 with re-rolls and relative immunity to lascannons is huge for Orks.

Longshot wrote:To be perfectly honest, 9 cannons with ammo runts at something like, just over 300 points, seems like a pretty good buy to me.

Not great, but a reasonable substitute for Lootas in some lists.

Oh I use 2xLootas and 3xKannon units.

Toss in Trukks full of shootas and it's mayhem.

So many bricks of dice to roll! lol

I posted the math awhile ago, but the zzaps are comparable to a Las/plas marine team per point when it comes to wrecking AV14.

Food for thought.

That means nothing goo. Las/plas tacticals are not there for Av14 killing. Tankbuster elite devs and Pred Annihilators are your Av14 killers. Las/plas are good because they are survivable multi role 2+ save negating, anti horde and medium tank killing capability. The fact that they have a S9 gun is only part of the flavour.

Zzap guns are not anything like as versatile, and if you really needed them the opponent would strip yiou of them. Have a land Raier army facing orks, shoot the zzap guns first, it wont take much to see them run.

If you want a direct fire big guns battery take kannon, take advantage of the real advantage of the unit: that its cheap as chips. If youn lose them you can afford the loss, if yuou keep them you get reasonable shooting for the price.

I would give a nod to lobbas for the blast templates, but kannonm anre cheaper and can also issue blast, good if you want to prevent 'free' bunchup by Geq.

I had forgotten to include Tankbustas in my list, lol =\

Thanks though for the feedback! The takkita makes them seem like a lost cause, so I wanted to hear from some playtests. The way my army is looking (at the moment) I might end up choosing these guys for an anti-tank role. Jury's still out though ^_^

I think big guns have a place if you have open slots to use them with. I don't really think one unit of 3 is going to do all that much for you, easy to nutralize or even avoid as they don't move and shoot. But if you can get 6-9 then it becomes a problem as you can spread out the hurt and cover more of the field.

If you make you list right I imagine the hordes of orks rushing toward someone' front line might get attention before the Kannons do.
I know I worry about stopping the green tide first.

Also Kannons work best in a shootier ork army. If I'm facing 3 squads of lootas 9 kannons 4 30 man shoota squads and meks with KFF or SAG I have alot of things on my mind.

Are big gunz the ones run by the grotz? Non-ork shooting
seems a good buy.

Yes, they are run by grots.

That means BS3, and with ammo runts they're probably a
decent buy.

One thing though. Big Guns have an armor statline in the
"fluff" section of the rules. Is it a vehicle? p.51

The kannons seem the most worth it to me. I like them as super cheap scoring units that add some tank hunting ability.

Malfred: They're artillery, so the guns can be destroyed by a penetrating or glancing hit if I'm remembering correctly.

I'd use them in an infantry horde type army, definitely.

Orlanth wrote:Las/plas are good because they are survivable multi role 2+ save negating, anti horde and medium tank killing capability.

All that for only 135 points.

But Wait! Theres more!

Due to a marketing error, we are dangerously overstocked with models that must be cleared out! Our CEO has personally authorized us to sell these models at sacrifice prices. (only $35.00!) Order now and we will shave the cost of the heavy weapons down to 15 points apiece.

Thats only 90 points for 6 undercosted 3+ save, wound absorbing, death machines. Plus you get the undercosted heavy weapons, free as our gift, for only 15 points. (originally 25!)

Call right now and we will even modify the rules in 5th edition so that they overwhelmingly favor marines! You have nothing to lose, so order now.

They are immobile vehicles, destroyed by any glance or penetrating hit.

Unless you hit them with a template weapon, however, when you shoot at the unit you need to roll a 5/6 to actually hit the guns. 1-4 hits the useless grots.

Ah.

What in 40k is artillery right now?

Ork Kannon units.

And....Eldar heavy support like Vibrocannons.

There's some FW crap too.

I think that's it. The nids have 'living' artillery but it doesn't follow the rules. lol

Point for point, nothing beats the Lootas for their range, firepower, etc. But they're only S7, so they leave a hole at the top end of your tank killing.

The Big Gunz are often overlooked, Kannons being a pretty clear value, but Zzap guns might still be worth a try.

The thing that I'd like to try out is the Wreckin Ball. It's not going to work out for many armies, but if you've got lots of Trukks, then a S9 shot that hit's on a 4+ is a good bet. And that 4+ includes Skimmers.

Ah, so the stat line is immaterial? Because I'm looking at
the Eldar codex and don't see an AV for the Heavy
Support weapons.

The AV and rules are in the BBB. Just look for 'artillery' unit descriptor and check there.

Yeah. I buried my BBB a long time ago. Haven't even had
an interest until my friend's campaign. Guess it's time to
undo what has been done.

I use D-Cannons all the time, I find them to be quite resilient to shooting. Incoming hits scatter like WHFB riden monsters.

Eldar at least can slip a Warlock in there to boost leadership and then if the thing goes down to shooting you get a kamikazee witchblade running around.

I think it's ...

1-4 goes on gun
5-6 goes on crew

then you need to roll to glance or pen AV10, gun destroyed. Every gun has two crew but only needs 1 to operate so you usually end up with something like three crew left and one gun after starting with six and three.

Big Gunz are funny because doesn't the Runt Herder get
Furious Charge or some oddness like that?

Yes he does, but artillery cannot declare charges while the guns are alive.

So if you drop a squad to blow the artillery, the runt
herder will come out and eat you.

That is so weird.

i love my lobbas. 3 lobbas with extra crew for less then 100 points. tuck them behind a hill and let the templates fly. the range is a real bonus, and str 5 ap 5 is nothing to sneer at either. works pretty well against marines, even better against guard and buggies.

artillery is not immobile unless i missed an update...