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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Is only unmodified 1s killing overcharging Plasma officially a thing for Dark Angels yet in 9th? I’ve lost the plot on the leaks....

Yeah, Chapter traits haven't changed for DA. Grim Resolved changed in that if we fail morale we lose the initial model but ignore combat attrition so it's the same more or less.

jivardi wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Is only unmodified 1s killing overcharging Plasma officially a thing for Dark Angels yet in 9th? I’ve lost the plot on the leaks....

Yeah, Chapter traits haven't changed for DA. Grim Resolved changed in that if we fail morale we lose the initial model but ignore combat attrition so it's the same more or less.

Actually, Impeccable mobility got changed and there are lots of arguments about how its supposed to work:

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility Change this Warlord Trait to read: ‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons. In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

Which if im not mistaken allows you to advance you talonmasters and sammael, shoot without penalties and benefit from combat doctrines for three turns.

Add another warlord trait for your second talonmaster and you get the best sniper in the game:

*Page 138 – Warlord Traits, Huntsman, rules text Change the first sentence to read: ‘Each time you select a target for a Pistol, Assault, Rapid Fire or Grenade weapon this Warlord is making an attack with, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule.

Going by RAW everything seems to be legal, but by RAI its clear that heavy weapons shouldnt get bonuses other than first turn nor should they be allowed to be used with huntsman for any reasons.

A bit different - it is allowing you to use Huntsman, but as you are using it you cannot benefit from Dev doctrine. One or another, never both.

TirScath wrote:
A bit different - it is allowing you to use Huntsman, but as you are using it you cannot benefit from Dev doctrine. One or another, never both.

Dev doctrine is only on first turn, then you can benefit from tactical doctrine for 2 turns


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems pretty broken to be honest, i dont think its gonna last for long

Indeed, if you are doing this combo in first turn then you'll not get additional -1 for dev doctrine. But you'll get it in turn 2-3 in Tactical Doctrine, thats the RAW.

This character murdering combination gets even more hilarious if you give your Huntsman Talonmaster a Master-crafted Twin-Assault Cannon for the sweet extra point of damage. The other gets a Corvus Oculus because hitting on 2+ with 6" of extra range is just too good to pass up.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
This character murdering combination gets even more hilarious if you give your Huntsman Talonmaster a Master-crafted Twin-Assault Cannon for the sweet extra point of damage. The other gets a Corvus Oculus because hitting on 2+ with 6" of extra range is just too good to pass up.

The Talonmaster cannot be given Special Issue Wargear as he has the Vehicle keyword. It’s in the intro text on page 58.

We’ll see how long the Huntsman and Impeccable Mobility interaction survives.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
This character murdering combination gets even more hilarious if you give your Huntsman Talonmaster a Master-crafted Twin-Assault Cannon for the sweet extra point of damage. The other gets a Corvus Oculus because hitting on 2+ with 6" of extra range is just too good to pass up.

The Talonmaster cannot be given Special Issue Wargear as he has the Vehicle keyword. It’s in the intro text on page 58.

We’ll see how long the Huntsman and Impeccable Mobility interaction survives.

Even when it gets faqed, which is probably inevitable, we'll still have the ability to advance and shoot with heavy weapons, which makes our talonmaster more durable
Then simply swap huntmaster to tactically flexible and get a second round of shooting with bonus AP.

IMHO characters are a not threat when theres nothing else left around

I've played on weekend at ~2k (new points, ~1850 old points) of my RW against Eldars.
List:
Batalion
Samael
Talonmaster (CO relict, Huntsman WT)
2xIntercessors
1xInfiltrators
1x5 DW Termies TH+SS
1xRW medic (IM WT)
2x5 RW bikers
2x5 RWBK
1x5 Plasma Inceptors
1x DS

Eldar list was medicore:
1x farseer on bike
1x spiritseer with wings
1x warlock on bike
2x5 DA
1x5 Rangers
2x5 SS
2x5 WS
3x Hornet
3x1 WW with starcannons
2x transport
1x Crimson exarch

Generally great fun but I don't believe that it will be competitive anytime soon.

I got first turn, advance everything up to the middle of the board. Smaller boards are supporting our generally short range (bikers have 18-24 range, even with good speed this is not much on 1st turn). After advancing - speed of the raven and I was able to shoot with all RW minus one normal RW bikers. Didn't do much on first but the pressure caused my colleague to miss manage the target priority, and he did manage to remove only 1 unit of RWBK, not even touching DS which caused him the game in the end. On turn 2 I've landed DW Termies on one of the objectives near his lines, and charge at 6" to remove his DA from it, and get into cover (he could not remove them particularly till the end of the day) scoring me engage on all front + critical 3rd/4th objective for hold more since 2nd till the end of the game almost. After 2nd turn I've almost removed hornets, removed 2 out of 3 War walkers, Crimson hunter, most of the infantry (overwatch as a gem is still nice on 5x plasma inceptors).

Overall I've lost 1x5 RWBK, 1x Intercessors, 1-2 normal RW bikers from the units, few infiltrators.

Having CP's and everyone to be able to advance turn 1, makes with DS almost whole army 4++ and -1 to hit till DS is living (and even if I don't get first turn we still have the new gem for 4++). Very nice for casual gaming

Currently i think the following list could be used competitively

talonmaster impeccable mobility + eye of the unseen
talonmaster huntsman or tactically flexible after impeccable mobility gets nerfed + corvus oculus
sammael sableclaw
infiltrator squad 5
infiltrator squad 5
infiltrator squad 5
Scouts
jetfighter lascanons
jetfighter lascanons
inceptors x3 plasma
inceptors x5 plasma
inceptors x5 plasma

Whats great about this list is that you can place all inceptors and jets in reserves.
samael and talonmasters should be safe inside infiltrator bubble for the first turn
List has good amount of anti horde and anti tank
It has mobility and board control

That sounds crazy enough to work...

I don't think so... killing 5 Infiltrators is not an issue in T1, and Talonmasters and Samael will be exposed, if you want to bubble them with 2+ units then you are loosing the board control totally. Additionally, very weak staying power on objectives due to low ranged. You'll either loose on points, or loose important units early.

TirScath wrote:
I don't think so... killing 5 Infiltrators is not an issue in T1, and Talonmasters and Samael will be exposed, if you want to bubble them with 2+ units then you are loosing the board control totally. Additionally, very weak staying power on objectives due to low ranged. You'll either loose on points, or loose important units early.

If the table has any line of sight blocking terrain then 5 infiltrators can be an issue.

Second note is that you don't have to expose them to threats turn one, you actually never should leave them in the open to be killed turn one. Idealy, if theres any terrain just hide them, thats how board control is gained.

A trick i usually use is put them on first floor, and speeders on second floor of a ruin and shoot anything that can be reached while those guys on the first floor cover them.
Note:In our meta first floors are treated as LOS blocks when shooting.

Also, on second and later turns your speeders will always be covered by either inceptors, infiltrators or jets, so you only need to survive turn 1 with minimal losses. 2nd later turns start picking off main threats while trying to cover speeders from enemy shooting

So far it seems to work for me, i'll be going on a small tourney 1 august with a similar list and check how it performs there

I read a comment of sb on BoLS stating that plasma inceptors got stealth nerfed in the app because their 2 guns now only count as one. Can sb confirm this?

Have to admit that my excitement about going to my FLGS, picking up my Indomitus box and also getting a game in was dampened somewhat by the announcement that we will be rolled into the new Space Marines Codex and then get a Supplement. I am hoping they give us enough functionality with the new Space Marine Codex to let us play with our unique units while awaiting the supplement.

The game went well, though. I went Deathwing heavy with Azrael and and the Deathwing Ancient with the Relic giving a 5+ FNP. The solid core of Deathwing moving onto the middle of the table was tough to shift, while the Deathwing Knights rampaged through Grotesques and Talos' alike. Hopefully this wasn't the last march of the Deathwing...

Sounds similar to my idea concerning Deathwing. I think a strong block moving towards the center objective while small Ravenwing bike squads move in for late game shenanigans is the way to go.

With a Dark Talon and a Nephilim Jetfighter to push early.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Have to admit that my excitement about going to my FLGS, picking up my Indomitus box and also getting a game in was dampened somewhat by the announcement that we will be rolled into the new Space Marines Codex and then get a Supplement.

GW haven't squatted a plastic kit yet and we know everything is still in the new Marine codex so I see no reason to get rid of the relatively recent and beautiful Dark Angels specific sculpts. The Supplement fits the current way rules are released and should have plenty of room for all the DA specific toys! Plus this way GW doesn't have to issue a billion separate erratas everytime a Space Marine unit changes.

New FAQ today - Impeccable Mobility is reigned in. Now just no penalty for Advancing and firing Assault Weapons.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/zET7MqU16pRvjhAC.pdf

So it helps Blacknights but stops the shenanigans folks were drooling over.

So a warlord trait that helps a single unit, not other ravenwing units. What a crock. Classic GW overreaction again. Well, place it on the "never gets use" list along with 90% of DA warlord traits.

I read a comment of sb on BoLS stating that plasma inceptors got stealth nerfed in the app because their 2 guns now only count as one. Can sb confirm this?

Anyone find an answer to this?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
New FAQ today - Impeccable Mobility is reigned in. Now just no penalty for Advancing and firing Assault Weapons.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/zET7MqU16pRvjhAC.pdf

So it helps Blacknights but stops the shenanigans folks were drooling over.

Well, we all knew it was coming, right? Unfortunately this puts IM in the "meh" category of traits. Guess I'll probably stick with the Brilliant Strategist one like the old days now.

I thought that the new rules said that you can never gain more than one command point in a turn?

It does really piss me off. I had no intention running the sniper, but there was no reason to reduce the trait to worthless category. By all means change it, but turn it into something that benefits all/most ravenwing, not one bloody unit!


So looking at existing WTs now, the main rulebook still makes Brilliant Strategist the clear winner, although Fury of the Lion is not entirely worthless.
In RotD you can forget Impeccable Mobility, Tactically Flexible might see more play again for another turn of Dev doctrine. Watched would have been a good trait until now you must select before the battle not knowing what you'll fight. it's too situational for that. Shame really, GW always seems to take a few steps back with it's rules changes.

Not sure which rules designer hates DAs, but he needs to go.

 Reivax26 wrote:
I thought that the new rules said that you can never gain more than one command point in a turn?

You can only gain or refund one CP in a battle round, but this does not apply to the 1 CP gained at the start of the Command Phase for Battle Forged. So Brilliant Strategist still has a point.

I've taken a Deathwing Ancient with the extra Warlord Trait Watched as an insurance policy. It can be a wasted CP, but it can really throw a wrench into an opponent's plan if he was counting on a Power.

@Bullyboy - I think they've hated us going back as far as the 3rd Ed Codex...I pray we don't sink that low...

 Tagony wrote:
I read a comment of sb on BoLS stating that plasma inceptors got stealth nerfed in the app because their 2 guns now only count as one. Can sb confirm this?

Anyone find an answer to this?

That's a good question!

So i Just rewatched the Codex teaser and it really Looks Like DA geht +1 to hit Rolls If statonary (including in melee it seems, although ist hard to read).

This will be very powerfull If true
Also fun to usw as wie habe to make the tacrical descision to Rother Love or stay statonary depending in the Situation.
I Like!

I'm just hoping all multimeltas will now get the 2 shots like the leaked Invader ATV datasheet shows. Could make even the humble Attack Bike and MM-armed Landspeeder actually good again. Not too sure about MM Devastators though; the hit penalty kind of kills it for me although I suppose we could use a Chaplain Litany to make them count as stationary if needed.

Aeri wrote:
So i Just rewatched the Codex teaser and it really Looks Like DA geht +1 to hit Rolls If statonary (including in melee it seems, although ist hard to read).

This will be very powerfull If true
Also fun to usw as wie habe to make the tacrical descision to Rother Love or stay statonary depending in the Situation.
I Like!

Id say new chapter tactic is totally useless, nothing has changed.

A gunline is boring to play and you usually have azrael there for full rerolls so +1 to hit is kinda redundant.

Ravenwing and Deathwing do not benefit from this chapter tactic at all, since they are always moving.

Timur wrote:

Aeri wrote:
So i Just rewatched the Codex teaser and it really Looks Like DA geht +1 to hit Rolls If statonary (including in melee it seems, although ist hard to read).

This will be very powerfull If true
Also fun to usw as wie habe to make the tacrical descision to Rother Love or stay statonary depending in the Situation.
I Like!

Id say new chapter tactic is totally useless, nothing has changed.

A gunline is boring to play and you usually have azrael there for full rerolls so +1 to hit is kinda redundant.

Ravenwing and Deathwing do not benefit from this chapter tactic at all, since they are always moving.

Deathwing can absolutely benefit from it if you happen to get the Chaplain litany to go off.

Ravenwing not so much.

 bullyboy wrote:

Timur wrote:

Aeri wrote:
So i Just rewatched the Codex teaser and it really Looks Like DA geht +1 to hit Rolls If statonary (including in melee it seems, although ist hard to read).

This will be very powerfull If true
Also fun to usw as wie habe to make the tacrical descision to Rother Love or stay statonary depending in the Situation.
I Like!

Id say new chapter tactic is totally useless, nothing has changed.

A gunline is boring to play and you usually have azrael there for full rerolls so +1 to hit is kinda redundant.

Ravenwing and Deathwing do not benefit from this chapter tactic at all, since they are always moving.

Deathwing can absolutely benefit from it if you happen to get the Chaplain litany to go off.

Ravenwing not so much.

Completely forgot about our chaplain))
Given that we will get a biker chaplain i think our chapter tactic is not so bad after all))