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Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
 KidCthulhu wrote:
Consolation prize?

Spoiler:




[img]https://i.imgur.com/bCrr4HT.jpg[/img







]


Not perfect, but it's a good place to start...

By that measure there is the Border World Rangers 10 Man Squad, but I'd guess JudgeDoug wants a 24 figure plastic kit at $34.95, as opposed to the ten resin figures at $49.99. Cheaper and easier to build up the Tanith First and Only with the former as opposed to the latter.


Correct. In the meantime I've been doing the Sabbat Worlds Crusade in 6mm, so my Tanith are Trolls Under The Bridge's Jungle Fighters but with teeny tiny bits of pva-soaked-cloth as cloaks.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Since this forum is mainly sci-fi/fantasy, not historical, the complaints have been mainly "too many historicals, especially of stuff that already exists in plastic". When I read the comments posted below the WGA blog post, there were a lot of "too many sci-fi suggestions, not enough historicals."

Got two questions for the forum. How many historical miniature gamers do you know (including yourself if applicable)? Next question: Of those historical miniature gamers, how many of them still game at 25mm or 28mm, and thus would be interested in WGA making 28mm plastic kits?
Given the first point, what do you expect to get in terms of useful information from the second one?
Actually, you are correct. I'm guilty of fuzzy thinking. The questions should have been, "If WGA produces a [specific] historical kit, how many boxes would you buy of that kit?", and "How many people do you know that would buy at least one box of that same kit?" A sale is a sale, and it does not matter to manufacturer what the end user does with the purchase. That gives us useful data. Still most respondents have said they'd buy one box, if only for bits or conversions. While I'm sure WGA would prefer that each customer buy enough for a mass battle*, as long as they sell enough product to profit, it does not matter how many a single customer buys, and is satisfied enough they will consider further purchases.

To all those who responded, thank you. It is my fault I asked the wrong questions, but the answers plus Coenus Scaldingus's reply made me realize my mistake.

Of course, this polling method is flawed to begin with. It favors the forum members who post regularly, and the lurkers and posters who post rarely are not counted. An anonymous poll would probably get a few more votes, but the overall pool is small. Now if WGA were to set up an anonymous poll in their blog, they have access to a large enough pool, as witnessed by the 1500 responses to the "What kit do you want us to make?" question posted.

Anyway, based on the replies. it seems a 1 box sale for conversion fodder is about right. That does mean other historical kits may be of no use to that respondent though. For instance, I have yet to buy my share of WGA historical offerings, although Persians have been considered, as have Partisans. Am more interested in the Ghurkas. Similarly, someone might want enough WW1 German Infantry and Les Grognards to make Death Corps of Krieg, and so have no use for Persians or Napoleonic British Riflemen.

As for going to 32mm historicals, no hell no! Been though that once with 28mm replacing 25mm, don't want to go through that AGAIN! OTOH, what will be will be, and I can just continue playing mini agnostic games and not worrying about size if that happens again.

re: Minis gamers in general, and GW hobbyists in particular, are somewhat "bipolar". I'd say GW successfully brainwashed an entire generation. At least in my experience, those players who started with either WHFB or 40k in the 90s and so absorbed the "only GW minis" and "WYSIWYG", are the most inflexible and often most hostile gamers in the store. It is very much "GW is GOD, and I am its prophet!" There are enough other players that you can leave them to it, but I had a hard time getting game in the 90s because when WHFB launched, it was mini agnostic, and my early armies are mostly 25mm Ral Partha, and the 90's era WHFB players might acknowledge that WHFB was once mini agnostic, but insist I get an "official" GW army if I want to play currently. That attitude might have been reasonable in a GW store, but this was the LGS and the staff did not enforce (or encourage) GW policies.

*The Napoleonic rules I played required a player to field a minimum of 1 corps which translated into 180 infantry, 40 cavalry, and 9 guns (how many crew per gun was up to the owner: 2-3 was usually the best one could do given the base size of the gun, even if historically it took more.) So that's at least six boxes of WGA British Riflemen as they are 32 per box. Victrix is 60 per box at 21 pounds, about $30 US.

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
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I'd agree with all of that. But things are getting way better locally and the most active channels on our local Discord are Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings and Bolt Action, and of course literally everyone started with GW. Of course I'm still considered somewhat of an oddball with my Frostgraves and This is Not a Tests and Dracula's Americas...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 19:03:12


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SoCal

The success of Frostgrave, and the survival of Mantic, demonstrate that there is a large market for fantasy and sci fi minis outside of the GW proxy market.

   
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The success of Frostgrave, and the survival of Mantic, demonstrate that there is a large market for fantasy and sci fi minis outside of the GW proxy market.


and Stargrave may have me fielding Space Marines again . I like Wargames Atlantic, even though the only ones I have purchased are some boxes of Afgahni troops (dinged and dented at Miniature Market), but I need to find some locals to play against in other games to find a use for the others. I want to build a halfling army between these and the Mantic models.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







I have... Skeletons, Raumjaegers, Spiders, Lizardmen, Partisans.

Barely resisted Afghans, WW1 Germans and Grognards that I have no use for but they're cool.

Getting Cannon Fodder, Aztecs and Conquistadors for sure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 19:23:00


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'd agree with all of that. But things are getting way better locally and the most active channels on our local Discord are Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings and Bolt Action, and of course literally everyone started with GW. Of course I'm still considered somewhat of an oddball with my Frostgraves and This is Not a Tests and Dracula's Americas...
To be fair to a younger generation of GW gamers, the ones whom I was playing Kill Team with pre-Covid, are not pricks like those 90s era ones. They might favor WYSIWYG, but don't insist on it, and are open to non-GW proxies, they just prefer or favor GW when possible or practical.

re: The success of Frostgrave, and the survival of Mantic, demonstrate that there is a large market for fantasy and sci fi minis outside of the GW proxy market.
Of course, this thread does bias towards GW & the use of WGA figures as proxies, and you are right. I must not be taken in by the "echo chamber" effect of that and that this board is primarily a GW-oriented collection of fora. Pre-Covid, there was a thriving Malifaux community and Infinity community; I forget that since they usually play on the days or evenings I'm not at the store. The 40k gamers are there on the same days as I am. [The Age of Sigmar players had a dispute with one of the co-owners and so play elsewhere. Bad move on that co-owner's part, alienating 6-8 customers and turning them into former customers.]

re: Space Marines. My Albedo heads are in the US, maybe even out for delivery. I'm planning on using badger heads on Primaris Revier body for a CC specialist, and the Intercessor body for the ranged specialist.

If anyone is curious about the comic Albedo, the creator has put it up online at his website. I just started and the art is not very good. He even says he put out the first issues by duplicating them on a photocopier.

Remember someone suggested a box set for Schaumburg-Lippe? I found metals for them at Perry Miniatures. They also provide the size of that country's contribution to the Confederation of the Rhine in the Napoleonic Wars. Schaumburg-Lippe provided 1 battalion in a 2 battalion regiment; the Duchy of Anhalt provided the other battalion, and the regiment eventually made it to about 1200 men. So to build the Schaumburg-Lippe Napoleonic army in the system I used to play, I'd need just 9 infantry figures. And someone wants a plastic box set? Was he planning on fighting the Napoleonic Wars at 1:1 ratio?!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 19:48:59


Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
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Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

While I would not recommend Wargames Factory's business practices to anyone, they did have one neat thing in their crowd-sourced system. When you 'voted' for a kit you put down how many you would buy.

There was no enforcement, you didn't have to prepay, but it was a good way of differentiating something like their Trench Coat Not~IG where people would buy several boxes, and something like Female Apocalypse Survivors which might only sell one to a customer.

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

without commitment its just words, I probably matked down Id buy 10 boxes of their greatcoats, I ended up buying precisely zero - though to be fair that was because their greatcoats looked worse than awful.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

The only Wargames Atlantic figured I own are:

Dark age Irish (3 boxes)
Halflings (3 boxes, 1 free sprue from that survey a couple years back, and another sprue I bought off ebay)

I am looking forward to the conquistadors and the Aztecs.

Wargames factory… I won a box of the female survivors in a contest on their website… it was what new set you are most looking forward to and why… and my entry was the female survivors. It wasn’t a great set… but I loved the “fat girl survivor” torso… I think I had a point… but I lost it.
   
Made in us
Three Color Minimum





Tangentville, New Jersey

I've got two boxes of Raumjaeger and one box of Einherjar. But I plan on getting more (seriously, when are the Boxers gonna be available?!)


 
   
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Rampaging Carnifex





 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have... , Spiders,.

How were they to build? I read that there are some problems, like the contact holes/points for legs being too small.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





i have germans ww1 germans.
And they are a good kit imo.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Ravenous Beast Form







 Shadow Walker wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have... , Spiders,.

How were they to build? I read that there are some problems, like the contact holes/points for legs being too small.


Oh... I've not touched them yet

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 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have... , Spiders,.

How were they to build? I read that there are some problems, like the contact holes/points for legs being too small.


Oh... I've not touched them yet

Please share the experience once you have them built I am considering purchasing them, and would like to spare myself a bad experience.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





A new week, a new poll?
I’m hoping we get the final vote in the next few days.

Nice to have a bit of excitement like this, Stargrave Nickstarter tided me over a while, now this.
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Give them time to collate the data.
They will need policy decisions on whether to add new items that are developers choices or not, whether they want to edit out spam voters who voted for the same thing multiple times from a single address and whether they want to quietly drop vote winning items they decide in retrospect they don't want to do.
This isn't a popularity race chosen by the potential customer, its a fact finding exercise of what the 'wisdom of the crowd' might be.
Frankly its dangerous as many people might really really want something now, but get distracted by another 'oooh shiny' tomorrow, or might really want a plastic kit and then only buy one box and its a box of something weird only a few people actually are willing to pay for.

Plastics require big sales, so that means they want something people will buy a lot of, or lots of people will buy a little of.

Its easy to say not enough people make WW1 Italians, when not enough people play WW1 at all.
WW2 Italians is a far safer bet. Its easy for us to ask for Ottoman cavalry, but how many people will actually collect them. I too would like to see a broader range of minis, but that is from the perspective of my armchair on a website, just as yours is, and everyone elses.

Wargames Atlantic need to be wise here. So far they are doing just fine, they are getting responses from the peanut gallery of what they might want on a whim. Note the wording.

What actually sells will be different.

If I were running Wargames Atlantic this is how I would do it:

0. Do some not-40K with sufficient genericity GW can do nothing about it to plug into the single largest market. Box ticked.

1. Make a decent range of kits from select historical seasons. Make two or three factions with enough variety in a single historical season so gamers can make Wargames Atlantic a one stop shop for a single faction plus OPFOR.
WW2 is the first one to consider, and this means do Germans first and ignore anyone who whines 'I want faction x'.

2. Cover a second season with a very different historical period. Again make enough for a one stop shop for the armies and those armies must be able to face each other. Her Wargames Atlantic is stepping into error and doing off kits from widely different periods. Don't do that. They have Persian Infantry. OK, so why are you doing Picts? Make Persian cavalry artillery elephants and command figures. And make some OPFOR, most obviously Greek City states or Macedonians. Its a fair number of kits but it becomes a proper range.
Alternately do Picts and those Picts fought.

People forget the obvious: 40K sells because GW sells the ENTIRE ARMY, and can fill in ENTIRE ARMIES to face them.

3. Do generic SF and fantasy. In this it doesn't matter so much about volume, you are catering to of army collectors but also RPG collectors. Not many people will want Halfling Militia, but many more will be wanting halflings they can convert up as adventurers, plus some militia on the side with the remainder of the box.
Yes you can make a successful line where each customer only wants one box set, GW does this all the time. But genericity is key and it is important to find niches that are covered badly or not at all.
I show zero surprise that the generic fantasy options such as kobolds, trolls and fantasy women got voted for a lot. Same reason spiders have been popular, even though I suspect most buyers are in for a single box.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/05 12:03:35


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Yea this approach of 1 kit from each period is baffling me. But Aztecs and Conquistadors are coming together so maybe releases will be more coherent going forward. As a currently non historical player I'd want to see at least two opposing forces and at least some suggestion of what ruleset to use if there's to be any chance of me diving in.

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Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

And not one boxset per faction.

This is where they can make an exception and do the fantasy and SF. It might be more fun doing one sprue of sculpts per fasction and move on, but its bad business sense, unless they can do a faction justice in one sprue.
Single sprue cyberpunk gangers is not unrealistic. Single sprue Aztecs more difficult. Single sprue Persians, sorry, no.

If they want to do a single box factions they need to make multiple sprues and mix them in a bigger box. A single box Persian army with infantry cavalry and an elephant and chariot plus lots of bits to customise all of the above could be sold as a Persian army box, with an understanding that for RPG/skirmish minis you buy one, to make a small army buy buy two, 'proper' wargames buy five or six....plus. That could and frankly would work.


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

There are very few eras/periods/conflicts that WGA could do where they provide a complete range for both sides where at least one side isn't already well-covered by competitors in the market. WGAs approach seems to be, very simply, identifying specific market gaps that are underserved by their competitors, and filling those gaps. Its a valid approach given the costs and profit margins involved, even if it is frustrating on the consumer end.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

Is there any authoritative number about how spending in the unpainted miniatures market is divided among Sci Fi, Fantasy, Historical and RPGs?

It would be interesting to see.

(I'm entirely sci-fi and fantasy)

 
   
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Ravenous Beast Form







You mean without non-gaming scale model kits and gunpla which are each obviously bigger than all of gaming put together?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/05 13:58:00


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UK

 Shadow Walker wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have... , Spiders,.

How were they to build? I read that there are some problems, like the contact holes/points for legs being too small.


Oh... I've not touched them yet

Please share the experience once you have them built I am considering purchasing them, and would like to spare myself a bad experience.


Spiders. Not a nightmare if you have patience.

After I built the first two, I started doing the following.

Identify the pair of legs that has a small disc of plastic at the end. Glue these to the torso and base first, supporting the torso until the glue dries.

Attach the other legs from that point on. I used 32mm bases but 40mm may be a better option especially if one wants to add the web wrapped victims to the base.

You don't need to glue the abdomen straight away and can choose to add it once the legs are on and dry.

By changing the angle of the torso when applying the first two legs, you can change the posture of the spider ie low to the ground and sprinting or still with abdomen raised.

The contact points are small so patience is required.

They're fun, especially when equipped with DEATH RAYS and CYBERNETIC LEGS!!!

   
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Armpit of NY

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is there any authoritative number about how spending in the unpainted miniatures market is divided among Sci Fi, Fantasy, Historical and RPGs?

It would be interesting to see.

(I'm entirely sci-fi and fantasy)


Unfortunately, no. Almost all of the gaming companies other than GW are privately held and don't have to disclose any financials or other information at all. GW releases numbers to satisfy the legal requirements of being a publicly-traded firm, so potential investors can evaluate the business. But even they don't talk about sales numbers of specific items. Steve Jackson Games is one of the few private gaming companies I've seen discuss their financials in any depth - the 2020 report is available now http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/ Even there, though, while they give a gross income and a top 40 list, sales numbers for individual products aren't given or are only talked about in generalities.
   
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Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Shadow Walker wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have... , Spiders,.

How were they to build? I read that there are some problems, like the contact holes/points for legs being too small.


Indeed, you have to do a bit of trimming to fit them in. There’s a guide on their site somewhere, but basically you want to start with the thorax and the two legs that connect it to the ground, then glue them to the base, and let that all harden before adding any other limbs or the abdomen.

   
Made in pl
Rampaging Carnifex





@alphaecho and @Bobtheinquisitor - thanks for the tips
   
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

Spiders are manageable. I posted a video on Youtube along with the link to the directions Wargames Illustrated put together.

I won't bother shilling my channel but take a look at their visual breakdown as it was quite helpful.

https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/wssblog/assembling-plastic-giant-spiders/?fbclid=IwAR3RG5zgWsoZZdtaID6e4c0RvcJpgg0mw4uU2OHFu0m7NePEPrT5wiBkgKs

Biggest challenge is determining how to paint them.

I still need some lizards...and boxers... and aztecs... and conquistadores.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
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Rampaging Carnifex





 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Spiders are manageable. I posted a video on Youtube along with the link to the directions Wargames Illustrated put together.

I won't bother shilling my channel but take a look at their visual breakdown as it was quite helpful.

https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/wssblog/assembling-plastic-giant-spiders/?fbclid=IwAR3RG5zgWsoZZdtaID6e4c0RvcJpgg0mw4uU2OHFu0m7NePEPrT5wiBkgKs

Biggest challenge is determining how to paint them.

I still need some lizards...and boxers... and aztecs... and conquistadores.

Thanks!
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You mean without non-gaming scale model kits and gunpla which are each obviously bigger than all of gaming put together?


Yeah, leaving out prepainted clix type things (are they still a thing?), models or all sorts of toy soldiers.

I remember years ago GW claiming they had 90% of the market or something equally huge and I wonder if there's an independent numbers around.

 
   
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Pious Warrior Priest





My happy place.

Final poll is up

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
 
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