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With GW moving more towards simplified codexes that only include things there are models for, the IG and SM codexi look especially vulnerable to being redone and leaving many armies out in the cold.

So it's a good time to speculate what might be coming down the pike for them.

Imperial Guard
Doctrines probably gone for the most part. Don't expect to ever see or hear the words close order drill or iron discipline again. Equipment options like cameo, warrior weapons probably gone.
Light infantry may become an option for IG infantry (2 points per model or 20 per squad to infiltrate and get a 6+ save). This would just be to support Catachan models. I doubt carapace will be an option, instead get Storm Troops as troops especially if plastics are coming.
Probably gain the Baneblade and Valk (if made) as a codex options.
Get back Griffins, LR exterminator, LR vanquisher? Maybe the two Russes since they could be done on one sprue.
Armored fists and conscript squads will probably lose their requirement of one platoon for each.
Maybe get an IG command squad that's more like the inquisition retinue, with all kinds of wierdos doing all kinds of wierd things. I'd call it a 50/50 chance.
I would be the Last Chancers are getting killed or turned into something much, much more set.

The Space Marines
This one is tougher since they're GW's money maker... Killing some obscure IG varient will piss off a lot fewer people than killing the Whitescar's all bike army. But on the other hand whatever they kill they can always say that chapter might get a codex later. We'll see codex White Scars long before we see another Codex Catachans. maybe Codex The Other 995 Chapters?
Will scouts become elites? I kind of doubt it, maybe a 1:1 ratio for tac marines to scouts though.
Scout bikes cut? I can see it but why, just keep the models as mail order only.
Will squads get access to a second special weapon (as I think about a drop pod army this becomes important)? Maybe?
Only 10 man squads get a heavy? I'd give pretty good odds on this. it sells marines, it balances things a bit, pretty likely.
Expect plastic vets so more options for them.
A brand new unit? Doubtful the fluff is so set in stone at this point that adding a new tank or a new infantry type would be hard.
Add IG or SM serfs? Again doubt it, the trend now is to make each army its own 'brand'.
Add Legion of the damned or Death Watch? Possible. Maybe as a special character with a retinue. Special characters are the new hotness so bringing back Sgt Centurous and Captain Bob of the Death Watch would make some sense. Get a limited release boxed set out of it.

Other thoughts?

In both cases I think we'll see something like the Dark Angel and Blood Angel Codicies for Space Marines, with a simplified list of deviations from Codex chapters that won't include the sort of deviations permitted by the Dark Angel and Blood Angel Codicies. Rather than changing the options internal to units, I'd expect something more like simple changes to which Force Organization Chart slots Army List entries can be chosen for based on the specific Chapter deviation. Purely Codex Astartes would have the organization we're familiar with from the 4th edition books, except for integral grenades and Combat Squads. So purely Codex chapters would have Scouts as Troops.

After all, if people want an all-bike army there's the Ravenwing rules, if people want an all-assault army there's the Blood Angel rules, and if people want an all Terminator army there's the Deathwing. I'd expect to see variants for Devastator, Scout, Armoured, and Veteran companies.

Imperial Guard, likewise, would get a standard (Cadian) interpretation with variants based on the arrangement of Army List Entries in Force Organization Charts. If they release Vultures and Valkyries as optional transports that means that heavy infantry can do double-duty as Storm Troopers and Grenadiers. I'd expect to see Light Infantry (move light infantry with infiltrate and move through cover but 6+ save,etc, from Fast Attack to Troops), Heavy Infantry (move heavy infantry to Troops, etc), and Armoured (move Leman Russes from Heavy Support to Troops, regular infantry become Heavy Support). And like Codex Orks give players the option to play all Mechanized or all Infantry varients of the un-doctored list.

I don't like the simplfied codex. To start with they were great (due to the price drop) but they could fit so much more in! I've just got the new guard one and the hobby section on the whole if filled with photos of the eavy metal stuff arranged by force chart. I don't want to see that, I'd like to see a selection of models and 'hobby ideas' - conversions, other peoples armies etc. The eavy metal stuff is on the boxes you buy after all!

Anyway, IG - plastic russ kit with russ, demolisher, vanquisher and exterminator options, bring back the griffon. Give the hellhound a souped up engine or something and maybe drop the cost of a chimera or something. Not by much but by the time you've added weapons to it your paying as much as the squad inside, this isn't balanced to me when space marines can tranport thier basic troops for less than half the price of the squad. If anything should be more it should be the rhinos, simply as you benefit more from having a movable tactical than you do an IG. And if only troops will be scoring this adds even more value to a rhino since a tactical squad will take a lot more killing than an IG. To me chinmeras will becoma a waster of points.

I like the new codexs (code'i? plural?... dunno)
IG should pay through the teeth for a chimera it's not what the IG is about, whereas the SMs are a rapid response mobile force.
I think about how many GIs expected to ride in a jeep in vietnam etc...

I think they should concentrate on what the IG do which is mostly static gun lines, they should have more options for defending/fortifing their position, maybe advanced rapid fire rules while dug in... minefields and claymores (this side towards enemy!)... and for when the enemy get close the first round of fighting should sway in IGs favour: Fixed Bayonets!

Again, please try to speculate what GW will do, rather than pontificate on what they OUGHT to do.

Feel free to start new threads on that

I'm thinking more about what's likely since I have IG and SM projects in the pipeline.

It's hard to say what you can expect from guard, altho I would expect vox-casters and commissars to both be useful.

I would expect Iron Discipline and Close Order to have some mention in the new book.

It's hard to say what they'll do, really. It would be a pity to lose the doctrines because the section in the guard book w/ the different variant lists adds a lot of flavour.

If doctrines are gone I would expect something flavourful to bring infantry coolness in line with FW/ Russ coolness.

I wouldn't expect much from Space Marines other than a tweak to their HQ again, and new point values for everything. Veteran skills seem to be in decline, which is a shame. I would also be sure to take into account the new rumors regarding vehicles and objective based missions.

sorry, let's have a go

IG
Sentinals - flank march/deep strike type ability
battlefield assests - like you mentioned....mine fields etc. I think the catachan codex might have had things like booby traps, killer plants or something (never seen it mself)
taranchulas (Sorry about the spelling)
I think rough riders will make a comeback. Forgeworld have made some and they seem to be uderused. Would probably be a marketing type ploy to boost sales but hey, up to date verions would be interesting.
Possibly IG scouts/snipers (other than rattlings) maybe with bikes. I know this role is covered with sentinals but I can see them coming up with 'lone sniper' type kits - possibly taking junior offices and upgrading them to snipers. Would co inside with the more static gun line approach and would make a fantastic little kit (think of the warhammer plastic character kits with a range of weapons and nice little extras)

SM
more flexible tactical squads. - I can see the option of pistols and chainswords coming, or the option of adding jumpacks or rhino to assualt squads. At thge moment it can be done with doctines but I'm not keen on this system. I tend to use it to get the options I want and drop things I don't use anyway and the downside. As far as I'm concerend I'm getting the flexibility I want without actually being penalised for it. Might as well include it in an army list entry and make somehting more speacialised out of the doctrine type sections.
Would guess they'll do something with bikes. The models are dated and other races are getting new bikes. Seems logical. Not sure if rules would change though. If walkers are going to be just able to fire one weapon and move (rather than the current two) then I can see bikes making a big comback as modile weapon platforms rather than the current dreads.
New drop pod rules or making them more flexible with a plastic kit. Drop pods seem to be here to stay and have firmly found their place. I would think GW will capitalise on this. The FW ones are expensive and it's the sort of thing that would be quite easy to turn into a plastic kit.

As an aside I'd like to see the new boxed game supplementing IG for SM. I know SM are a 'starter' army but their rules are similar to those of basic IG. It would seem logical that if IG are the main human force in the galaxy then there should be more of them and at the moment I'm sure far more people play marines than guard. Give them nids or orks to fight. More IG, less aliens. Similar model balance to the current mcragge but with the 'good' side having majority models rather than the Xenos. Just seems more in keeping with the fluff. Would also be something quite different and may even boost sales. gives nice options too with heavy weapon squads and terrain - missions could also be similar to current ones, GW wouldn't have to think too hard!

For IG I bet they build alot o doctrine into the options entry: All units can be mounted in chimera for _)(pts Unit may deepstrike for (*&pts
I'm guessing that your basic guardsmen is going to become dirt cheap (4pts) in light of the 6 point ork boy.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Imperial Guard

- "Invisible" (non-modeled) Doctrines gone (e.g. Jungle Fighters / Close Order Drill / Sharpshooters)
- "Obvious" (equipment) Doctrines stay (e.g. Carapace, Cameoline, Warrior Weapons), but are bundled into specific units (e.g. Carapace is Stormtroopers & Grenadiers).
- NO 0-1 restrictions, NO "requires X", NO "per X" restrictions
- redone Advisors as ICs, SCs, and Vox Network
- more Troops Platoons - Grenadier Platoon, Conscript Platoon, Light Infantry Platoon (c.f. Cult CSM)
- Valkyrie FA choice (Fast Skimmer Transport)
- Baneblade possible HA choice
- redone 2-in-1 Leman Russ / Exterminator, with new Demolisher follow-on

The Space Marines

- NO Traits (White Scars will play as DA RW, Raven Guard will play as BA)
- NO Veteran Skills / USRs
- Scouts as Elites
- Combat Squads
- "NEW" plastic Ultramarine Veterans / upgrades
- possible SCs that reshuffle Veteran options (i.e. Jump Packs / Bikes)

This is a hard one for me as I believe the current Guard codex is by far the most balanced codex around. They really should use this as the model for all the other armies and not the current Marine codex. I know this is something that can be debated till we're all blue in the face... or our fingers are at least tired. So I'll just put my two cents in.

Imperial Guard
- Commisars becoming ICs
- Ratlings take it to the face and are replaced by normal Guardsmen in a weaker sniper role.
- The removal of 0-1 restrictions as well as the (take 1 A to get 1 B)
- A small reduction in point cost to Chimeras and a point cost reduction in regular Guardsmen as well.
- A deepstrike (probably a parachuting) option for Sentinals.
- A point reduction on Rough Riders
- Valkyries added as a Fast Attack option
- A Leman Russ varient or two added back to the list

Now, what I think they should do is a bit different, but I'll leave that out of here as per KK's request.

Space Marines
- Die... Die in a fire. Thanks.

I expect the next SM codex to be basically Codex: Ultramarines. All divergent Chapters of Legend will have their fluff retconned to make them codex adherent. You want White Scars? Just make an Ultramarine army with 3 bike squadrons as your FA choices and paint them white. Raven Guard? Take 3 assault squads as your FA and paint them black. Salamanders? Use multi-meltas instead of lascannons and paint them green. Etc. To placate angry players GW will release Apocalypse datasheets for all the affected chapters.


The next IG codex can best be described by the following SAT question.

Chaos codex 3.0 + defilers : Chaos codex 4.0
as
IG codex 3.0 + enginseers : _________?

A: IG codex 3.5
B: Chaos codex 3.5
C: IG codex 4.0
D: Jervis
E: my ass

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Imperial Guard

- "Invisible" (non-modeled) Doctrines gone (e.g. Jungle Fighters / Close Order Drill / Sharpshooters)
- "Obvious" (equipment) Doctrines stay (e.g. Carapace, Cameoline, Warrior Weapons), but are bundled into specific units (e.g. Carapace is Stormtroopers & Grenadiers).
- NO 0-1 restrictions, NO "requires X", NO "per X" restrictions
- redone Advisors as ICs, SCs, and Vox Network
- more Troops Platoons - Grenadier Platoon, Conscript Platoon, Light Infantry Platoon (c.f. Cult CSM)
- Valkyrie FA choice (Fast Skimmer Transport)
- Baneblade possible HA choice
- redone 2-in-1 Leman Russ / Exterminator, with new Demolisher follow-on

The Space Marines

- NO Traits (White Scars will play as DA RW, Raven Guard will play as BA)
- NO Veteran Skills / USRs
- Scouts as Elites
- Combat Squads
- "NEW" plastic Ultramarine Veterans / upgrades
- possible SCs that reshuffle Veteran options (i.e. Jump Packs / Bikes)

Basically all of those. I also expect Guardsmen to drop by 1 point, possibly two. Plasma Gnus might go up a couple points. Iron Discipline may be integrated into the normal IG Officer rules to reinforce the idea of their Command Structure.

I'm not sure we'll see more than one type of platoon though.

Last-Chancers are probably gone.



For Marines, Scouts might remain as Troops. Blood Angels get Assault Marines as Troops, Dark Angels get Terminators and Bikers as Troops. I could see Ultramarines getting Scouts are Troops. It fits fluff-wise since they're rebuilding the Chapter after nearly being wiped by Tyranids, it's consistent with the new plastic Scout models and it's consistent with each special Marine Chapter getting a different themed unit as a Troops choice. (Black Templars are an exception - but the mixed squads are a big divergence already.)

If that holds out, I'd expect Space Wolves to have Grey Hunters and Blood Claws as Troops.

I expect that SM will be very much like the DA (basically DA with out some of their fancy rules). I do expect to see some special rules for the chapters that are more closely aligned to the 'codex ideal' (i.e. the ultramarines that aren't blue) - but through the use of named commanders (like the way imperial fists are done in the current codex).

As for IG .... doctorines gone. Most of the war gear gone. An extra tank or two. I suppose they'll probably keep some of the more popular doctrines through creating a couple of new units. I expect to see Rough Riders gone, or at least changed (they seem to be the only cavelry unit in 40k). I also expect there to be a few special generals that add some of the currnet 'flavour' to your army ... but toned down of course. I do expect that they'll keep the platoon structure in some form (though not it's current form ... apparently it's too confusing the way it is now). I don't know how they're going to do that (and I don't see them making IG troopers come in groups of up to 55 per FOC slot).

I must say I'm very much looking forward to an IG rewrite.

Some predictions:

SPACE MARINES

1. One heavy weapon per termie squad. (they should have left it at two and made assault cannon 0-1, but hey, that involves thinking).

2. Bikes 3-10. Full sized bike squads may count as troops. Bike cost reduced to 25pts each.

3. DA pricing for all other FA choices and transport options and lascannon, wherver they are hiding.

4. Combat squads if you take 10 men. This is my hope anyway. We may get mandatory 5 or 10 man squad monkey version. You will need 10 men to take a heavy weapon. It should read: you need 10 men (or better 8+) to take both the heavy and special weapon.

What they need is a repricing of Land Raiders, but I doubt they will do that.


IMPERIAL GUARD

I just know they are going to cock this one up.

I think, new tank wise, the Leman Russes might get split into two sections.

Tank Aces(Elites): Can choose either a Leman Russ Conquerer, a Leman Russ Exterminator or 0-1 Laser Destroyer.

Leman Russ(Heavy Support): Can choose between a Normal Russ, a Demolisher, 0-1 Vanquisher, 0-1 Executioners.

Scout Salamanders may become a Fast Attack choice.

We may even end up with HQ tanks, which would likely be a choice of any of those (except the Laser Destroyer), along with a Command Salamander, with additional command rules compared to normal tanks.

With Armoured Fist/Grenadiers-in-Chimeras as Troops choices, this would make an Armoured Company an actual part of the list.

ChrisAsmadi wrote:I think, new tank wise, the Leman Russes might get split into two sections.

Tank Aces(Elites): Can choose either a Leman Russ Conquerer, a Leman Russ Exterminator or 0-1 Laser Destroyer.

Leman Russ(Heavy Support): Can choose between a Normal Russ, a Demolisher, 0-1 Vanquisher, 0-1 Executioners.

Scout Salamanders may become a Fast Attack choice.

We may even end up with HQ tanks, which would likely be a choice of any of those (except the Laser Destroyer), along with a Command Salamander, with additional command rules compared to normal tanks.

With Armoured Fist/Grenadiers-in-Chimeras as Troops choices, this would make an Armoured Company an actual part of the list.

that would be cool. It would also be a smart addition alongside a recut of the Russ which I believe is one of the oldest models still in production. I'm not saying it's not a nice model. Any change would have to be compatible with existing FW kits I would expect.

IG-basic list only. All troopies may get a chimera option. May be a points drop on basic trooper. Nothing else except ogryns or STs which will be come extremely powerful (if new minis coming out). I weap for what may become of my guard (ok not really but it sounds good). I see a brilliant mistake in the making.

Marines: New Chaos dex less demons and marks plus marine vehicles and assault cannons. May go the orkie way-if have Commander Harlie may use some bikes as troops that sort of thing. I'd expect no traits otherwise.

Rather than adjust points costs (it can be hard to do this accurately) I can see them throwing free upgrades at units like they did for Space Marine Tanks (smoke/searchlight)

Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon = 60 points. Includes 10 Guardsmen with a Veteran Sergeant and Vox Caster.
As a side note, I never agreed with paying 25 points for a bs 3 lascannon. Space Marines pay 15 for bs 4.

I think the new Space Marine chapter codex's have set the pace for the new Codex Space Marines. Probably lose traits and be given more flexible options with some Special Characters that give you special options. An open book without boundaries. The fluffy players would only choose war gear, units and abilities that suit their army instead of loading up on all the best choices playing broken armies.

What would be interesting is a Special Character for each first founding chapter. Each character unlocks or locks war gear, units and abilities to that army. However, GW seems to be taking off all the restrictions lately.

And this was just posted to the rumor page:

Yep, no real surprise but new figures for 5th Edition.
Just spoke to a mate of mine who is a GW Manager in the UK and he informs me of two notable releases

1. An all new medium tank which will come in between the predator and landraider
2. Landspeeder transports for scout troops

I've been hearing of a tank for awhile but this is the first time I've heard that it will weigh in between the 2 mentioned above. The landspeeder transports are in line with the new GW approach to marines for 5th edition, which is to make marines more of a strike force than a static army.
It seems games designers want to align marines more with the fluff - small mobile forces that pin point targets, eliminate them, then get the hell out of dodge, leaving clean up for the IG.
Plastic droppods will finally come out to coincide with the new codex.
Also army traits are gone but are instead linked to the force commander ie. take a particular armies force commander who has furious charge, then your army has furious charge, making them XYZ Chapter. This is to encourage players to take force commanders instead/in addition of the chaplian/librarian.

Now before I get the naysayers, this guy is one of my best mates and doesn't speak crap. He's pretty low key. Secondly, a lot of this info comes from one of the play testers, who is a close mate of his. Thirdly, he didn't speak about anything he didn't know about ie the Plantestrike supplement.
- jas


http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46505&st=0

For what it's worth.