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I think #4 does.

GG

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

First off, as you know, the further down the list of definitions the weaker and less-common a usage it is. So this is the rarest usage for the word.

Secondly, we've already clearly seen in the thread that some atheists add a cause (like equality for atheists, or removing religious privilege from politics) or a system of beliefs (like the "atheists believe" stuff from that atheist's organizartion earlier, talking about self-reliance and such) onto their atheism. But many or most don't, as has been evinced by multiple atheists in this very thread. Atheism itself doesn't require either of those things. Some atheists happen to add them on as optional adjuncts.

Religion requires those kinds of things. You have to have a system of beliefs to have a religion. Atheism doesn't.

generalgrog wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:To be honest, I do not know of this is helpful since I jave completrly lost track of this odd argument, but here is the definition of 'religion'

(1) the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

Atheism does not fit either category.

You left off a few(nice try)....from miriam webster


re·li·gion
noun \ri-ˈli-jən\
Definition of RELIGION
1a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3: archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


GG

#4 does not apply, atheism while it may be considered becoming a cause, it is not one currently. Is still most definitely not a principle or a system of beliefs held with faith "2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." Any principles the atheist cause will adopt will never be based on faith.

the problem with dictionary definitions is the words are based on common usage. so the first definition is the most commonly accepted usage of the word. I could start up a campaign to start using religion to mean "a group of bigots who pay others to do bigoted things for them" If enough people start using the word religion for this usage, I could get this to be the #1 definition in the dictionary. But the context of the word is based on how the person using it, is defining it at the time.

Look at the word cigarette "a. A student at a British public school who is required to perform menial tasks for a student in a higher class.", and see how its definitions have continuously changed throughout the years. or even bad: 15. Slang good; excellent. Hey what, how does bad=good?

As you are not an atheist GG, why are you so keen to label them a religion? Just read through all the definitions of religion, look up the census results of listed religions, atheism is not a religion. It will never be a religion no matter how much you wish it would be for whatever reasons you're afraid to admit.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
weird, I had a different word for cigarette, if you understand the concept I was making you should figure it out

As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

Thank you very much.




GG

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

Thank you very much.


GG

Please stop being so remarkably wrong.

It takes no faith to not believe in something.

Seaward wrote:

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

Thank you very much.


GG

Please stop being so remarkably wrong.

It takes no faith to not believe in something.

Why don't you believe in God?

GG

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

No, that's false for the same reason its false to claim that theism is a religion. Atheists, minimally, do not believe in God/gods. Theists, minimally, believe in God/gods. There is no necessary set of assumptions that underpins, or is attached to, either of these beliefs. A theist who believe in a particular God, or set of gods, is probably religious (but not necessarily), and with a sufficiently broad definition of "religion" you might call atheists that attach other beliefs to the absence of belief in God/gods, but that definition of "religion" will be so broad as to encompass nearly every belief.

Oh, and assumptions are not equivalent to faith.

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

Thank you very much.



GG

Wrong. Oh so wrong.

Plus, assumptions are not faith, and pretty much what the dude above me says.

generalgrog wrote:

Seaward wrote:

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions. These assumptions are then backed up by another set of beliefs assumptions. Assumptions and presuppositions = faith in something (whether it is some philosophical subset or some scientific principal). When you throw in the ardor that we saw at the reason rally..... you have religion.

Thank you very much.


GG

Please stop being so remarkably wrong.

It takes no faith to not believe in something.

Why don't you believe in God?

GG

What god? Can you be more specific? Which one are you talking about?



Aphrodite LOVE GODDESSES
Apollo SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Apsu
Ares WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Artemis MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Asclepius
Athena WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Athirat
Athtart
LOVE GODDESSES | WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Atlas
Baal
Ba Xian
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Bellona WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Bergelmir
Bes
Bixia Yuanjin
Bragi
Brahma
Brigit
Camaxtli WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Ceres
Ceridwen
Cernunnos
Chac
Chalchiuhtlicue
Charun
Chemosh WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Cheng-huang
Cybele
Dagon
Damkina (Dumkina)
Davlin
Dawn
Demeter
Diana MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Di Cang
Dionysus
Ea
El
Enki
Enlil
Eos
Epona
Ereskigal
Farbauti
Fenrir
Forseti
Fortuna
Freya LOVE GODDESSES
Freyr SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Frigg
Gaia
Ganesha
Ganga
Garuda SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Gauri
Geb
Geong Si
Guanyin
Hades
Hanuman
Hathor LOVE GODDESSES
Hecate (Hekate)
Helios SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Heng-o (Chang-o) MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Hephaestus
Hera
Hermes
Hestia
Hod
Hoderi
Hoori
Horus
Hotei
Huitzilopochtli
WAR GODS AND GODDESSES | SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Hsi-Wang-Mu
Hygeia
Inanna
LOVE GODDESSES | WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Inti SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Iris
Ishtar LOVE GODDESSES
Isis LOVE GODDESSES
Ixtab
Izanaki
Izanami
Janus WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Jesus
Juno
Jupiter
Juturna
Kagutsuchi
Kartikeya WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Khepri
Ki
Kingu
Kinich Ahau
Kishar
Krishna
Kuan-yin
Kukulcan
Kvasir
Lakshmi
Leto
Liza SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Loki
Lugh SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Luna MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Magna Mater
Maia
Marduk
Mars WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Mazu
Medb
Mercury
Mimir
Min
Minerva WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Mithras SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Morrigan WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Mot
Mummu
Muses
Nammu
Nanna MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Nanna (Norse)
Nanse
Neith WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Nemesis
Nephthys
Neptune
Nergal
Ninazu
Ninhurzag
Nintu
Ninurta WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Njord
Nugua LOVE GODDESSES
Nut
Odin
Ohkuninushi
Ohyamatsumi
Orgelmir
Osiris
Ostara
Pan
Parvati
Phaethon
Phoebe
Phoebus Apollo
Pilumnus
Poseidon
Quetzalcoatl
Rama
Re SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Rhea
Sabazius
Sarasvati
Selene MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Shiva
Seshat
Seti (Set) WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Shamash
Shapsu
Shen Yi
Shiva
Shu
Si-Wang-Mu
Sin MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Sirona
Sol SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Spaghetti Monster
Surya
Susanoh
Tawaret
Tefnut
Tezcatlipoca
Thanatos
Thor
Thoth
Tiamat
Tianhou
Tlaloc
Tonatiuh SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Toyo-Uke-Bime
Tyche
Tyr WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Utu SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
Uzume
Vediovis
Venus LOVE GODDESSES
Vesta
Vishnu
Volturnus
Vulcan
Xipe
Xi Wang-mu
Xochipilli
Xochiquetzal
Yam
Yarikh MOON GODS AND GODDESSES
Yhwh
Ymir
Yu-huang
Yum Kimil
Zeus

generalgrog wrote:As I stated before a person that believes that there is no God, bases that belief on a set of assumptions or presuppositions.

What set?

Aside from none.

It does not take a set of "assumptions or presuppositions" to simply not care, or to say "there is no proof therefor no reason to believe."

In fact, requesting proof and basing one's argument on proof is the direct opposite of assumptions and presuppositions, because assumptions are defined as "believing without proof" and presuppositions are defined as "assuming before the argument begins".

sirlynchmob wrote:What god? Can you be more specific? Which one are you talking about?... ...Tiamat...

I never stopped believing! I'm putting that on the next census form.

pretty much what everyone else has been saying. atheism does not require faith or a set of beliefs or a set of rules such as religion does. atheism is simply a lack of belief, a null position, '0' on the scale.

Well what makes the Christian god any different from the millions of other strange imagined beings that inhabit the universe? They were all created for the same reason, to explain the unexplainable. Now that most of it is starting to be explained some of us arn't so inclined to put faith ahead of reason.

The fact that a simple question like "Why don't you believe in XXX" will not be answered is quite telling.

Athiests avoid this question because they know that it gets to the heart of the their belief system, and they do not want to admit that they use faith. They like to think themselves superior to people of faith because athiests are in denial themselves about the quantity of faith they have in Science and philosophy.

Again... athiesm does not exist in a vacuum.


GG

generalgrog wrote:The fact that a simple question like "Why don't you believe in XXX" will not be answered is quite telling.

Athiests avoid this question because they know that it gets to the heart of the their belief system, and they do not want to admit that they use faith. They like to think themselves superior to people of faith because athiests are in denial themselves about the quantity of faith they have in Science and philosophy.

Again... athiesm does not exist in a vacuum.


GG

You're the one in denial here, You don't even know which god your worship, nor can you describe him. How can anyone answer if they believe in someone you just made up without proof and evidence? Being an atheist is a result of my belief system, not the belief system. You do not need faith in science, faith is for religions as they can not prove anything, they need people to have faith in it (believe without proof)

so why don't you go figure out what god your asking about then try asking your question again with a proper name for your god, and a testable hypothesis for its existence.

generalgrog wrote:The fact that a simple question like "Why don't you believe in XXX" will not be answered

But I already stated why most atheists don't believe in god. Because there's no proof of God's existence therefor no reason to believe he exists.

Do you believe in the one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater? His horn on his head blows 'em all out of the house with its epic rock and roll. Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? His Noodly Appendage embraces all, and we all go to the great pasta bowl in the sky whether we believe or not.

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

Do you even read what you post? I know you're not reading any posts in this thread.

but lets get back to this other post you made:

generalgrog wrote:
The fact that a simple question like "Why don't you believe in XXX" will not be answered is quite telling.

Did you really just ask, "why don't I believe in porn?" And your not answering "what god?" is quite telling.

well since you won't answer, and you like telling others what they believe, let me return the favor.

You believe in some sort of god.
I believe I am a superior being, ergo you believe I am god.
Please send all donations to my pay pall account, and for specific prayers its a minimum donation of $10,000 american dollars.

generalgrog wrote:I find that statement very interesting.

Why, because it's true?

You're desperate to say science is a faith, but science doesn't require faith. You can test it. If you come up with a hypothesis that better explains reality than the current theory (and repeatedly test the hypothesis), it replaces the current theory.

The reason that the geological uniformitarianism philosophy (which is distinct from faith) is held is because there's no proof to cause scientists to believe otherwise.

Science is the study of the world as it is, not as one wishes it to be. The latter is faith. The scientific consensus changes over time as our understanding of the real world as it actually is changes. Because it is not based upon faith-- but upon facts.

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

Do you even read what you post? I know you're not reading any posts in this thread.

but lets get back to this other post you made:
.

sirlynch do you accept uniformitariansim or not?

GG

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

Do you even read what you post? I know you're not reading any posts in this thread.

but lets get back to this other post you made:
.

sirlynch do you accept uniformitariansim or not?

GG

I refuse to answer any more of your questions until you answer mine.

generalgrog wrote:[snip]

You're dodging and avoiding, GG.

Why so evasive?

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

Do you even read what you post? I know you're not reading any posts in this thread.

but lets get back to this other post you made:
.

sirlynch do you accept uniformitariansim or not?

GG

I refuse to answer any more of your questions until you answer mine.

you haven't answered one of my questions.. LOL

GG

I have a question that has probably has been addressed before, but my laziness overtakes me and my currently weak google foo defeats my purpose.
How are similar stories among isolated groups of people explained? In other words, similar stories about destruction by flood and repopulation by select groups of people, etc.

Ah yes, GG the hypocrite, refusing to answer questions yet demanding everyone else answer his.

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:... You do not need faith in science...

I find that statement very interesting.

Exhibit A of Scientific faith..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

GG

Do you even read what you post? I know you're not reading any posts in this thread.

but lets get back to this other post you made:
.

sirlynch do you accept uniformitariansim or not?

GG

I refuse to answer any more of your questions until you answer mine.

you haven't answered one of my questions.. LOL

GG

If you'd actually read my entire post from any of the previous pages, you'd see that I had. yet you still have yet to even answer the most basic one of, what god?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:I have a question that has probably has been addressed before, but my laziness overtakes me and my currently weak google foo defeats my purpose.
How are similar stories among isolated groups of people explained? In other words, similar stories about destruction by flood and repopulation by select groups of people, etc.

It floods all the time, the mid west in the USA floods just about every year now. there was a Tsunami in Japan last year. Floods happen. Is there any evidence of any flood that covered the entire world? NO. The Chinese have a written history that started before the biblical flood was supposed to have happened. There is evidence of a local flood in the middle east about the time biblical scholars claim.

Thanks for the answer, sir.
I'm just interested in everyone's take on different regions religious stories that are similar, because it leads to interesting thoughts.
In my own opinion, I believe in God and the Bible. I know we have lost a lot through mis translation and other factors, but that there are things yet to be revealed.

Relapse wrote:Thanks for the answer, sir.
I'm just interested in everyone's take on different regions religious stories that are similar, because it leads to interesting thoughts.
In my own opinion, I believe in God and the Bible. I know we have lost a lot through mis translation and other factors, but that there are things yet to be revealed.

Like the 'Biblical' flood? The historical accuracy of an event such as there being a flood has no bearing on the existence of god (and vice versa).

George Spiggott wrote:

Relapse wrote:Thanks for the answer, sir.
I'm just interested in everyone's take on different regions religious stories that are similar, because it leads to interesting thoughts.
In my own opinion, I believe in God and the Bible. I know we have lost a lot through mis translation and other factors, but that there are things yet to be revealed.

Like the 'Biblical' flood? The historical accuracy of an event such as there being a flood has no bearing on the existence of god (and vice versa).

I never said it did, I was just answering a question about floods and isolated groups.

But why wouldn't they have similarities? They are all humans, with human desires and emotions, all living on this blue little ball of water and dirt.