Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

A vast majority of 40k players have no idea what goes on, they just come in buy stuff and leave completely ignorant to GW polices and underhandedness. The second people have access to that information they start thinking about what they are buying and make informed purchases, and GW HATES that with a burning fury. Why do you think they are getting rid of gaming spaces? Or asking "loiters" to leave? Why do you think they hit the sue button so often? I've said it once and I'll say again, GW is at war with its customers, and the fact they cant see that just proves how disconnected they are.

Its all about keeping people quiet and stupid, either that or GW is so ashamed of its customers they dont want people scared off by the neck beards in thier stores. Either way we'll see what the next generation of GW store looks like.

Exalted for truth. People that know anything know GW does some pretty stupid (keeping it PG here) stuff. GW doesn't want their ignorant 13 year olds getting wind of any of that.

 Hollowman wrote:


GW's relationship with it's customers is no more adversarial than any other company. They are a big company, so they can get away with more than the competition. Nonetheless, no company is at war with it's customers, especially not in a market where just ceasing to buy is an option. In any such conflict, the customers win. They walk away. Every company knows that, and every company finds exactly how predatory they can be before they lose too many people, and hovers around that line.

So thats why they go out of there way to screw its customers? They felt the aussies were abusing their right to order from another country so they dropped the embargo on them. They dont like changing their prices so they say they use "historical exchange rates" from the 80's it seems. For some reason everything is compared to the british pound despite all of north americas models coming from the memphis factory. They've gone out of their way to strip information away from people as much as humanly possible, and if you've gone into their stores lately they stare at you like you're a criminal, and god forbid you actually voice an opinion there. They flat out tell us they are moving to a material that is 1/10th the cost of pewter and then add a 15 to 200% price rise on the kits because they need to pay for the machines, then a month later hit us with another price rise just because they can. A box of guardsmen was $40 for 20 3 years ago, then it was $25 for 10, then $30 a year later, now its $35, that is so far ahead of inflation that it is not even funny.

Should I go on? I cant name any other company that plays a roll in my life that has such bile for its customers, they go above and beyond to make you not want to spend money there.

We wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

Exalted!

Now I am off to change my Facebook page and linked in profile....because the internet never lies.

In a world where potential employers actively stalk your facebook and other online profiles, keeping your information up to date and inoffensvie is actually fairly important.

RavenousD, there are a few companies that treat Thier customers like utter gak. Have you ever been to a Ford dealership? You may as well be a piece of gak on the sole of the salesmans' shoe...
"Ahhh, sir wants a car?, may I suggest the auction?" That's a true story btw.

But GW really take the cake frankly. 15-16 years ago, I could pop in to my local store and spend the whole day chatting with the 3-4 staffers there, and not just about GW products. Cars, Films and Football were all on the agenda then. I even helped them paint a few minis for an Ice World diarama that they were working on at the time....And all without threats from HQ.

Now I have no inclination to stay in a one man store for longer than I absolutely need too. And that's a shame. Honestly, I avoid GW stores like I do Ebola.... I buy from my FLGS unless they have nothing in stock that I need. They have gone from a Customer Oriented Business to a Soulless Destroyer Of Worlds. And all in 15 years! Not bad eh?

Clarence wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Clarence wrote:
Just got word from a friend of mine who is a current store manager in Toronto, Mark Bolger hasn't worked for GW in over a year.

Are you sure, because it says not only on his Facebook profile, but also his Linkedin profile, and several other online resume websites that he is currently working for GW. Not to mention several directories still list him as working for GW.

I'm as sure as I can be. I'm still close friends with many GW staff, including my old Director for Growth. I literally just asked a GW store manager who's been with the company for over 5 years. But believe what you will. Facebook says it so it must be true, right?

Fafnir, why don't you call GW customer service and ask them if Mark Bolger is still employed with GW. Here's the number.

1-800-394-4263

As a former executive he was fairly well known. If for whatever reason the guy doesn't know, ask for Dave Swann, the customer service manager. He would know for sure.

Clarence

Dave Swann is one cool dude. We chatted it up for a while drinking beer at throne of skulls.

Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

Y'see, whilst I've only got my personal experience here, I have to say that I'd never experienced this for the entire time I was working there (3 and half years)

People who came into the store spoke about stuff they were working on, painting advice, you know, product stuff. Sometimes someone would complain about the rules of a unit, or that an army was OP, but it would never escalate to the outright loathing or hatred you see expressed on the internet (whether that hatred is justified or not is irrelevant)

Sometimes they'd start talking about stuff that wasn't GW related, though, like what movies they'd seen recently, or video games they'd been playing. Now, I (and my manager) were fine with letting them do that, just hanging out and talking, but we received instructions on many occasions telling us to either ask the person to start discussing GW things, or leave the store.

So, I don't think it's because Corporate are terrified of the people in their stores gathering for any length of time, lest they collectively uncover the dark secret that GW is terrible, I just think Corporate has no understanding of what it takes to develop and maintain a positive gaming community.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
RavenousD, ... Have you ever been to a Ford dealership? You may as well be a piece of gak on the sole of the salesmans' shoe...

Since Ford's drive like a pos on the sole of your shoe it only fits.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

Y'see, whilst I've only got my personal experience here, I have to say that I'd never experienced this for the entire time I was working there (3 and half years)

People who came into the store spoke about stuff they were working on, painting advice, you know, product stuff. Sometimes someone would complain about the rules of a unit, or that an army was OP, but it would never escalate to the outright loathing or hatred you see expressed on the internet (whether that hatred is justified or not is irrelevant)

Sometimes they'd start talking about stuff that wasn't GW related, though, like what movies they'd seen recently, or video games they'd been playing. Now, I (and my manager) were fine with letting them do that, just hanging out and talking, but we received instructions on many occasions telling us to either ask the person to start discussing GW things, or leave the store.

So, I don't think it's because Corporate are terrified of the people in their stores gathering for any length of time, lest they collectively uncover the dark secret that GW is terrible, I just think Corporate has no understanding of what it takes to develop and maintain a positive gaming community.

Something to consider is that a store where people are seen just "loafing around", to some people, appears to be a cliquey place to someone who is new.

The FLGS I used to frequent had a policy that the regulars were expected to adhere to, where they didn't just sit around doing nothing when someone new entered the shop. They were to introduce themselves, engage the customer a bit and see what they were looking for in particular or if they were just browsing and then point the prospective customer to the staff member who would be able to help them best.
It was a nice system as it prevented the whole "the employees won't leave me alone" and the perception of cliques at the shop.

Having parsed the thread, I feel that people are simply missing the underlying reality. The term "Occam's Razor" means that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

There is no 'hatred of customers' here. There is nothing even remotely of the sort. No conspiracy.

The largest GW stockholder is also the head honcho of the company. All he cares about is getting as much money as possible from his investment. That's it. I guarantee you that he 'sees the future' of self-printed miniatures products, and is rushing to cash in on GW's IP. Intellectual Property rights are the only thing GW will have in 5-10 years, and the company is clearly orienting itself in this direction.

Again, no conspiracy, no evil plans, no hatred.

Just a company moving to maximize short term profits. Not unlike the rest of the corporate world.

---

You want to make a difference? Stop buying product. Get your friends to stop buying product. Get THEIR friends to stop buying product. Start a nation-wide protest. Convince parents that there's better things to spend their money on. Convince tournament throwers to stop running 40K tournaments (good luck with that one). Etc.

May the force(tm) be with you.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
Confirmed non-troll or photoshop? That's ridiculous.

Been on his profile too:

"I spent my childhood growing up in Bayonne N.J. I went to Bayonne High school. I went into the U.S.M.C. in 1990 and got out in 1994. I became a law enforcement officer in the city of Richmond Virginia from 1995 until 2004. I now work for Games Workshop North America as a Director for Growth and travel a lot!"

An ex-cop who's a jerk. Absolutely shocking.

as the guy(top facebook poster in OP's picture) who evidently received the facebook hate from the former GW employee... he fails utterly at argument discourse. They asked how the service is, skeptical review can be handed a few different ways. I wish GW had owned this situation, denouncing this former employee, and addressing the issues presented.

People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

I'm sure the gross majority of people who work for McDonald's central management would say that their restaurants are for obese benefit queens.

Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

This sounds more like dry British humour, something Jes Goodwin would do

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

This sounds more like dry British humour, something Jes Goodwin would do

I don't think it was Jes Goodwin and it wasn't a joke. It might not be true, I didn't hear it myself it was just a story doing the rounds a few years back. However it's not really hard to believe there are people who have those opinions working as sculptors etc. in GW.

 Radiation wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

I think it's a matter of gauging customers in large numbers to get a proper feel for where things are at. Every single company that has more than 1 customer(most all of them) will have a few customers who are never happy. My company has a few, despite those employee's bosses loving us.

So you could write off a few complaints as being part of the job. But when an entire online community such as ours has such a high population of unhappy customers or potential customers, something needs to be done about it.

To ignore customer complaints on a large level is to straight up say that you don't need/want those sales. Now, go find me an investor who is ok with companies declining sales just because they don't want to improve X.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

I doubt that was the reason for Wells stepping down. Wells was hired and placed into a position where he really did not have that much authority. Kirby has been calling the shots and Wells implements his edicts. I think it is a good thing for Wells to step down and save his career.

People with vast amounts of money generally tend to have a disconnect to those with lesser fortune. That unfortunately comes from first hand experience in dealing with large corporations and those people who run it. Corporations want Sheeple to buy there product where it is good or a load of crap. Corporations do not want people who actively think about their finances and/or researching the product best for their needs.

There is one thing that I do know that after 40+ years working with models (all sorts, from RC to historicals, to miniatures) there are a lot of smart people, in all ways of life, doing similar things that I do for enjoyment.

They generally do their research on what they want before purchasing.

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

I don't know what gluten is, but apparently it's delicious!

Gluten is the main protein component of most cereals, basically its what makes bread chewy.

 Fafnir wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

Why? You'd keep on doing the same thing you're doing now- whatever side effects you're experiencing obviously aren't severe enough to make it worth the effort to change your diet.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

Why? You'd keep on doing the same thing you're doing now- whatever side effects you're experiencing obviously aren't severe enough to make it worth the effort to change your diet.

It gets worse over time, the more you consume over time, wears away your stomach lining or something. I know my father used to be able to eat bread and other gluten products just fine a few years ago, but now he gets violently ill at just the slightest bit of it.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Radiation wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

I think it's a matter of gauging customers in large numbers to get a proper feel for where things are at. Every single company that has more than 1 customer(most all of them) will have a few customers who are never happy. My company has a few, despite those employee's bosses loving us.

So you could write off a few complaints as being part of the job. But when an entire online community such as ours has such a high population of unhappy customers or potential customers, something needs to be done about it.

To ignore customer complaints on a large level is to straight up say that you don't need/want those sales. Now, go find me an investor who is ok with companies declining sales just because they don't want to improve X.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

Stop buying the product, that's what can be done about it. Either enough people will stop buying and GW will change or go bankrupt. However enough people keep buying the products so they have no need to change.

<Insert counter argument about GW sales declining>

Yea you have no proof, ad they are still the largest miniatures manufacturer so they must be doing something right.

The states still have the largest economy, so they must be doing something right. Er... Hmm.

A company used to turn over £340M a year, (adjusted for price inflation.)
And had appx 85% of the available market share.

Now it turns over £131M a year.
And has appx 45% of the available market share...

Just because its still the biggest company in the market , it must be doing 'something right' according to some.

Kirby is simply focusing short term profit for his own personal gain.And is not concerned about the long term future of GW plc.
No hate but definatley indifference and maybe contempt....

So, apparently this dude doesn't actually work for the company anymore, and hasn't for 12 months.

 McNinja wrote:
So, apparently this dude doesn't actually work for the company anymore, and hasn't for 12 months.

welcome to like 5 pages ago.

Still, GW should make an effort to distance themselves from him, given his attitude towards the player base and his vocal manner about said attitude.

Also, local GW manager insists that the rape/assault charges thing is some kind of pointless hoax and that Bolger is currently an officer in TX.