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2013/04/12 12:01:55
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Morachi wrote: Disregard any name calling Mattyrm, this is the internet and people will say rubbish like that at times, its more out of frustration than anything from what i've seen.
But yes, it was good to see eBay put GW in their place. Can you imagine the fall out if that had made it through? One shudders at the thought.
Oh yeah totally, the eBay thing would have outraged me!
I actually love checking eBay for GW stuff, not just to save money and avoid buying new, but It's almost as much fun as gambling on paddy power! I like trawling for bargains and looking at the photos and paint jobs and such, it's nearly a hobby in itself!
GW have really done some stupidly greedy things, it's obviously just a case of short term gain over the long term health that all the really great family owned companies seem to aim for.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2013/04/12 12:05:26
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Kingsley wrote: One interesting fact about human psychology is that people seem to accept or reject arguments based not on their factual content, but based on whether they agree with the conclusions. You can see this principle at work on these very boards--
Yes. Yes I can
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
2013/04/12 13:48:28
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
-Loki- wrote:Honestly this is the first time I've ever heard someone actually liking the screw tops (aside from when they were first released and a couple of GW staffers were jumping up and down about how they are so much easier to open). So you can imagine my surprise I've never heard any comments beyond they are a pain to open when you get even the slightest paint in the lid and they dry out far too easily, certainly nothing positive.
I've met at least 2500 SEAL team 6 and SAS members online.
insaniak wrote:Yeah, I had a pot of red ink in the screwtops that leaked all over the place without being opened. And I went through 3 pots of Tin Bitz before I ever actually got to use it... That stuff dried out ridiculously quickly in the screwtops.
My old Coat D'arms paints, by comparison, are still good after 19 years... and half of them have cracked lids, and still haven't dried out
This exactly, I have old Coat D'arms round paint pots that the lids are breaking apart on, are older than most of the posters here, and the paint is just as good as the day I bought it in high school.
Only now do I realize how much I prefer Pete Haines' "misprints" to Gav Thorpe's "brainfarts." :Abadabadoobaddon
2013/04/12 14:26:45
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Kingsley wrote: One interesting fact about human psychology is that people seem to accept or reject arguments based not on their factual content, but based on whether they agree with the conclusions.
Another interesting fact about human psychology is how everyone who puts forward a theory like that never seem to consider that it might apply to them as well as the people they're disagreeing with.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
2013/04/12 14:41:08
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Kingsley wrote: One interesting fact about human psychology is that people seem to accept or reject arguments based not on their factual content, but based on whether they agree with the conclusions. You can see this principle at work on these very boards--
Yes. Yes I can
Elemental wrote:
Kingsley wrote: One interesting fact about human psychology is that people seem to accept or reject arguments based not on their factual content, but based on whether they agree with the conclusions.
Another interesting fact about human psychology is how everyone who puts forward a theory like that never seem to consider that it might apply to them as well as the people they're disagreeing with.
Bravo, good sirs.
When an argument is as squishy as "should we be mean to GW ?" I think objectivity is nearly impossible.
And things go two ways. The Tau book just came out, and the tactics and list building forums are lit up with discussions about it. Sure, there's a bit of a dutch rudder going on in discussions about if the book is good, but if you look a little further you'll see people enjoying GW products and having a good time.
If my adepticon Team Tournament army weren't a super secret project, I'd have a massive WIP blog going on right now, with GW models mixed with a wide variety of third party stuff.
The point is, nearly any positive GW discussion is going to take place outside of the general forums, and instead will be in Modeling, gaming, battle reports, tactics, whatever.
2013/04/12 15:02:10
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
BryllCream wrote: People are still knocking GW for not advertising, despite new Tau stuff being horifically popular? Sounds about right
GW is not a start up, and is not clawing for market share. GW is a market leader. It's a restaurant in a good location. It's a sports team with a loaded roster. It is the best funded, largest, and most pervasive minis gaming company. It has a global supply chain from manufacturing through retail. It should do well. Doing well is not notable.
For a company in GWs position, treading water is a bad sign. And market leaders are not too big to fail. Look at GM for great examples Research in Motion (maker of the blackberry).
GW should be growing. Growing in sales, player base, and in reach.
2013/04/12 15:49:09
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
TV is clearly a passing fad as more moves to the internet which is a passing fad itself. Thus eventually we'll return to live performances for entertainment and criers to deliver the news. Meaning word of mouth is the marketing strategy of the future you guys!
TV is clearly a passing fad as more moves to the internet which is a passing fad itself. Thus eventually we'll return to live performances for entertainment and criers to deliver the news. Meaning word of mouth is the marketing strategy of the future you guys!
They even puts females in it to confuse the young boys in to thinking it'd be anything other than a sausage fest
Advertising isn't just about TV though, I know at one point in one thread I listed off advertising methods and TV was only just 1 of them.
2013/04/12 17:17:19
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
By this point GW is probably saying everything besides magazines are a passing fad, because that's the only way you'd know GW exists. And even that you have to buy directly...
My Armies:
5,500pts 2,700pts 2,000pts
2013/04/12 18:10:17
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Games Workshop send correspondence to eBay, requesting restrictions be imposed on the resale of any GW produced merchandise. eBay effectively flip them off.
.
This is the first time I have heard of this , it seems unbelievable
Someone like to Justify or Rationalize this ?
Spelling edit
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 18:14:00
2013/04/12 18:13:04
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Games Workshop send correspondence to eBay, requesting restrictions be imposed on the resale of any GW produced merchandise. eBay effectively flip them off.
.
This is the first time I have heard of this , it seems unbelievable
Someone like to Justify or Rationize this ?
Because E-bay is bigger than GW.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Kingsley wrote: One interesting fact about human psychology is that people seem to accept or reject arguments based not on their factual content, but based on whether they agree with the conclusions.
Another interesting fact about human psychology is how everyone who puts forward a theory like that never seem to consider that it might apply to them as well as the people they're disagreeing with.
Cute. Not right, but cute.
Polonius wrote:The point is, nearly any positive GW discussion is going to take place outside of the general forums, and instead will be in Modeling, gaming, battle reports, tactics, whatever.
I think that's fairly easy to notice-- the real question is why it is the case, and what can be done to fix the problem.
2013/04/12 18:22:54
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
As in Jusify or Rationalize GW decision to attempt something so blatantly wrong
Beause GW would like to control the entire miniature wargames industry, including the second hand market, and is delusional enough to believe that it is both capable of doing so and within its rights to do it.
2013/04/12 18:27:28
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Polonius wrote:The point is, nearly any positive GW discussion is going to take place outside of the general forums, and instead will be in Modeling, gaming, battle reports, tactics, whatever.
I think that's fairly easy to notice-- the real question is why it is the case, and what can be done to fix the problem.
Why is it a problem?
I mean, seriously? So a bunch of people in a handful of threads in a few places are super mean to GW.
And as for why, for the same reason guys sitting around a bar rarely speak well of their wives: sometimes venting is just venting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 18:28:28
2013/04/12 18:28:19
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
RatBot Beause GW would like to control the entire miniature wargames industry, including the second hand market, and is delusional enough to believe that it is both capable of doing so and within its rights to do it.
Thanks - Rationalization ticked
Now anyone want to have a go at why GW trying to restrict people selling their own property , and which GW has no legal basis in trying to restrict , how this is actually really a good thing ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 18:31:51
2013/04/12 18:31:56
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
I mean, seriously? So a bunch of people in a handful of threads in a few places are super mean to GW.
And as for why, for the same reason guys sitting around a bar rarely speak well of their wives: sometimes venting is just venting.
It's always dangerous for a community to become too divorced from reality. In reality, GW is neither good nor evil. It's just another company trying to make money, and there really isn't anything that notable about it.
2013/04/12 18:34:01
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Polonius wrote:The point is, nearly any positive GW discussion is going to take place outside of the general forums, and instead will be in Modeling, gaming, battle reports, tactics, whatever.
I think that's fairly easy to notice-- the real question is why it is the case, and what can be done to fix the problem.
As for how to increase the positivity of discussion, there are a few paths:
1) Silence some negativity.
2) have people with positive comments post more
3) Have GW stop doing things to piss off it's player base.
One is the easiest, for many reasons. First, few people feel very strongly positively about anything. Secondly, and I'm going to choose my words carefully here... most of the "GW bashing," by volume, is not unsolicited comments. It's responses to people challenging criticisms. If people stopped defending every GW decision, or did so in less confrontational ways, you'd see less negativity.
I mean, seriously? So a bunch of people in a handful of threads in a few places are super mean to GW.
And as for why, for the same reason guys sitting around a bar rarely speak well of their wives: sometimes venting is just venting.
It's always dangerous for a community to become too divorced from reality. In reality, GW is neither good nor evil. It's just another company trying to make money, and there really isn't anything that notable about it.
and this is why every criticism of GW turns into a flame war. Because, fundamentally, every discussion turns into some version of this:
Poster 1: "I feel this way, and for this reason."
Poster 2: "You shouldn't feel that way. Your reasons are bad, and here are reasons you should feel better."
If you're truly concerned about connections to reality (which you might be, as a sidelight to your flamewar business), you'd follow the examples of people like Yak or Hulk or the guys that post reasons they like stuff, and why things can be great, rather than constantly butting heads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 18:37:03
2013/04/12 18:40:01
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Polonius wrote: If you're truly concerned about connections to reality (which you might be, as a sidelight to your flamewar business), you'd follow the examples of people like Yak or Hulk or the guys that post reasons they like stuff, and why things can be great, rather than constantly butting heads.
I, uh, do post reasons why I like stuff. I would say that most of my posts are far more high-effort and evidence-based than those of the people arguing with me. Generally speaking a minority viewpoint has to be more rigorously supported in order to be successful, since people will otherwise be inclined to dismiss it out of hand.
2013/04/12 20:02:03
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Kingsley wrote: It's always dangerous for a community to become too divorced from reality. In reality, GW is neither good nor evil. It's just another company trying to make money, and there really isn't anything that notable about it.
If you feel there is a problem with the community being divorced from reality, why fight tooth and nail against people making negative comments? It only serves to polarise the community even further. There's no problem with individuals being divorced from reality, at worst it's simply a polarisation of the community.
2013/04/12 20:14:03
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
BryllCream wrote: People are still knocking GW for not advertising, despite new Tau stuff being horifically popular? Sounds about right
GW is not a start up, and is not clawing for market share. GW is a market leader. It's a restaurant in a good location. It's a sports team with a loaded roster. It is the best funded, largest, and most pervasive minis gaming company. It has a global supply chain from manufacturing through retail. It should do well. Doing well is not notable.
So there are never collectable/model lines that are sold out way quicker than anyone at the top expected?
Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude.
2013/04/12 20:28:03
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
[quote=Kingsley
It's always dangerous for a community to become too divorced from reality.
Bit out of the context but it made me chuckle to think of this particular community ( that Wargames with Toy Soldiers )- having a reality epiphany in the middle of a game ,
If any community needs to be divorced from reality to exist its this one
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 20:28:37
2013/04/12 20:34:47
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Grot 6 wrote: The hate flows when GW screws up, just as the praise comes when they do well.
The door swings both ways.
Pahahaha!! Oh, you're serious? So, when was the last time you heard of someone praising GW for, for example, the plastic Nurgle Champion? It's an amazing model, but outside of a few " that's really nice" posts in the thread where it was announced, i cant remember it being mentioned since.
Conversely, when was the last time you heard of someone criticising GW for a model that was released a while ago that people still refer to by a stupid nickname? "the Pumbagor" "goldswords" etc?
There is a huge disparity between the amount that GW are criticised for getting something wrong, and the amount they are praised for getting it very right, and to argue otherwise is ridiculous.
The door really doesn't swing both ways.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT! Did you just say the praise or ridicule of ONE model is equal proportion to ANYTHING that GW has pulled? Are you serious? What do you expect people to say about a model? "That looks nice, I'll buy it." every time? GW's embargo, has a much bigger impact than a model. GW's price gouging is much bigger than a model. You have no sense or proportionality. The razorgore was a colossal failure of a model by a company that made rather nice models. Nobody looked at it and thought, "This looks butt ugly. Do it again," in GW. That kind of model is going to stick out like a spear in the head. People are going to laugh at it. People gushed over the plastic Grey Knights. People were disappointed with many of the large beasties for fantasy. They get praise when it's deserved, dissatisfaction when it is deserved and ridicule when it is deserved. But the quality of models isn't relevant to this conversation. This has nothing to do with that beyond the price for the model being charged. If you think GW deserves praise for any of their business practices, I would love to hear it.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
2013/04/12 20:54:51
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
bkiker wrote: I hope I'm mistaken and have just stumbled into wrong threads and topics.
I'm not entirely sure what caused the culture of these boards to become so anti-GW, but to be honest I'm growing increasingly tired of it and am tempted to start posting on boards where people are a little more clear-headed.
The first reason is that the game rules are stupid and unbalanced, that was strike one for GW. The game is unplaybal as far as I'm concerned...
The second reason was them giving up trying to fix the rules and saying they suport "cinimatic gameplay", and stopped giving suport to competative gamplay.. That was Strike two..
The third reason was all the crap they made on a corporate level the last two years... We laugh our ass off at my local club at all the idiotic decisions they keep making.. That was the third and final strike..
That people keep defending them makes it all the more fun... haha
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 20:55:54
Eldar - 105,000pts (Estimated), 
Tyranids - 15,000pts
