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 Random Dude wrote:
Imagine what would happen if someone took parenting advice from Dakka seriously. Think about it.

They would conquer worlds?


"Its your fault Dad. You told me to be fierce."
-Genghis Connie, Mastah of Disastah.

 Da Boss wrote:
Obviously taser-spanking is the only solution.

Taser-spanking on the parents, as administered by police officers.

That covers all the bases I can think of.

Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

And if you're tasering them, it's called Justice.

Ah, America, what would the world be without you?

 Sarouan wrote:

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

And if you're tasering them, it's called Justice.

Ah, America, what would the world be without you?

Are other countries really soo much better? Let's be honest, we all harbor unfair stereotypes about other countries.

 Sarouan wrote:

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

And if you're tasering them, it's called Justice.

Ah, America, what would the world be without you?

It's not so much Justice as it is a solution to a problem.

A better solution would have been better parents who could have contained the issue before it go to that level.

 AesSedai wrote:
I'm of the opinion that better trained officers would have used other means to diffuse the situation. Can you comment on this position?

Who would have been better trained than that particular department's designated hostage negotiator (who, I presume takes a boat load of additional courses/certifications to have this job), AND the department's tazer TRAINER ??


@Howard A Treesong... I'm of the opinion that this 8 year old girl was throwing a tantrum because that "mean old witch" of a babysitter wouldn't give her more ice cream, or let her watch spongebob or whatever, so she started throwing a huge tantrum.

What's "wrong" with this girl would appear more that her parents are complete feth ups who haven't learned that it's OK to say, "no" to their kid once in a fething while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

Lol, as someone with kids, who still views spanking as an appropriate means of punishment, I've only had to use it once on my oldest (the youngest isn't old enough to get the concept of why he'd be getting a spank), beyond that, the threatened use of spanking has worked just fine.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
I'm of the opinion that better trained officers would have used other means to diffuse the situation. Can you comment on this position?

Who would have been better trained than that particular department's designated hostage negotiator (who, I presume takes a boat load of additional courses/certifications to have this job), AND the department's tazer TRAINER ??


@Howard A Treesong... I'm of the opinion that this 8 year old girl was throwing a tantrum because that "mean old witch" of a babysitter wouldn't give her more ice cream, or let her watch spongebob or whatever, so she started throwing a huge tantrum.

What's "wrong" with this girl would appear more that her parents are complete feth ups who haven't learned that it's OK to say, "no" to their kid once in a fething while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

Lol, as someone with kids, who still views spanking as an appropriate means of punishment, I've only had to use it once on my oldest (the youngest isn't old enough to get the concept of why he'd be getting a spank), beyond that, the threatened use of spanking has worked just fine.

I agree with this post.

Personally I'm of the opinion that spanking is a suitable punishment. As with animals (which we as humans are), training them to associate certain acts with pain, even minor pain such as a slap on the arse, is going to get them to stop. That's why torture is so effective. After a while even the suggestion of pain is going to break you down into a sobbing mess. That's not to say we should be waterboarding our kids, but teaching them that throwing tantrums to get their way will get them nothing but a baboon's backside and they'll eventually get the picture. Kids these days think they can get whatever they like by screaming and yelling. Because they can. Mums in the supermarket have to cave to avoid the embarrassing scene of a badly behaved child, and to avoid looking like an abusive mother who denies her child everything. So the kid gets double frosted chocolate marshmallow icecream cake for breakfast.

Btw, Double frosted chocolate marshmallow Ice cream cake was dropped by the gods, never intended for the likes of man...

 Deadshot wrote:
Mums in the supermarket have to cave to avoid the embarrassing scene of a badly behaved child, and to avoid looking like an abusive mother who denies her child everything.

I get all kinds of nasty looks in stores if my kids are actin the fool. This could have something to do with Iraq deployments messing with my hearing in such a way that I literally do not hear the frequencies that my children whine at, or if I can hear them crying and it's a tantrum, I'm acting like i have headphones on

 AesSedai wrote:


This argument is invalid, Nkelsch. In the report linked at the beginning on this thread one of the policeman said the girl lunged at him and the knife was in his own words "way too close". Any person trained in edged weapon counter tactics-- as any worthwhile law enforcement member should be--would have used the opportunity to disarm the untrained little girl child. Deadshot is correct.

Well, I am trained in 'edged weapon counter tactics' (which is definately a much more awesome name from what our instructors call it) and I am a worthwhile (hopefully!) law enforcement member. And I have to say that unequivocally our training is very specific about open-handed moves against an assailant armed with an edged weapon. We have a few different kinds of block and that is it. My training when confronted with a knife is to keep a minimum safe distance. Training also dictates that if a suitably armed assailant attempts to approach or does indeed get within that safe distance the main priority is to re-establish that distance, and the use of CS/CAPTOR spray, baton or worse-case scenario, bare hands, is all about creating enough of a gap to re-establish that distance. Although we do get taught baton strikes to the arms and the use of spray which can result in subduing an armed assailant, that's basically a happy coincidence. We don't have sidearms or Tasers - ideally when confronted with a knife-armed assailant we should do containment until the specialist officers turn up with things like dogs (aka 'land-sharks' or 'furry Exocets'), public order gear, Tasers, baton rounds etc.

Now I know officers who have subdued attackers armed with weapons, and all of these incidents have resulted in injury to at least one party and sometimes both.

I completely disagree. Ongoing mental health awareness training for all officers and specialized crisis intervention skills training for specialized officers should be (and is) part of law enforcement training.

Whilst I agree that we should have mental health awareness training, the reality is that we don't (in Scotland at least). You pretty much learn as you go along which gives some very uneven results. The issue here - and it's another reason for the lack of training in open-handed disarms - is principally time. Bearing in mind that we don't have to do worry about firearms training, police officers spend a lot of time training to keep up with legislation and procedure, emergency response driving, first aid, use of IT systems and Officer Safety to name a few. I'd also mention here that in order to become proficient in unarmed combat - or indeed any kind of combat - you have to do a LOT of training until it becomes instinctual. Beat cops generally speaking don't have that time.

Throw in a specialism like Search, Public Order, Firearms, Family Liaison, Search and Rescue, etc etc and that's still more time that you have to spend training which equates to less time on the street. When you start including other factors like time off, giving evidence in court and being called out to use your specialist training it can get ridiculous.

The sad truth is that you can have cops who are zen masters of unarmed combat and mental health experts. But if you did they would maybe work a few days a month because they'd have to spend so much time training.

What I think has happened in this situation is that the cops have encountered a situation which is similar to what they've trained to deal with but with a twist. They've ended up falling back on their training to deal with it. I have absolutely no doubt that what Da Boss has said about how his father would have dealt with this situation is true because the old-school cops here would have done the same thing - probably walked up to her and slapped her and taken the knife from her and screw the risk, because that's how things were done in their time. Expecting cops nowadays to deal with a situation the same way it was dealt with twenty years ago is unrealistic - in any profession, working practices change over time and the persons within that profession are trained to follow those practices. It's the same whether you're a police officer, fire-fighter, paramedic, soldier, carpenter, plumber.....yet strangely I don't see any threads up arguing about how paramedics failed to resuscitate a person suffering from condition X and how they were really unprofessional and should have done Y instead of Z.....

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Mums in the supermarket have to cave to avoid the embarrassing scene of a badly behaved child, and to avoid looking like an abusive mother who denies her child everything.

I get all kinds of nasty looks in stores if my kids are actin the fool. This could have something to do with Iraq deployments messing with my hearing in such a way that I literally do not hear the frequencies that my children whine at, or if I can hear them crying and it's a tantrum, I'm acting like i have headphones on

Heh... I'm almost deaf, so I have that excuse too.

All I have to do now is give my boys the "Dad Look™" and they'll shape up.

 Sarouan wrote:

squidhills wrote:
Like I tell my friends who have children... never hit your kids; that's child abuse. Have someone else hit them *for* you, then it's just battery.

And if you're tasering them, it's called Justice.

Ah, America, what would the world be without you?

Germany, Russia and China.

Alright, time to burn down South Dakota.

Thats what Sitting Bull said.

 Sigvatr wrote:

RJCarrot wrote:


Many of the times my children are misbehaving all I have to say is "do you want a spanking?" and it stops, just referencing it is enough.

Awesome, you're teaching your children that in order to cooperate, you have to threaten others with physical violence.

In the same way that threatening to take a way a child's favorite toy or video game system teaches them that in order to cooperate, you have to threaten others with theft?

In the same way that threatening to give a child a time out or make them stay in their room for awhile teaches them that in order to cooperate, you have to threaten others with confinement against their will?


Judging by this line of reasoning, it's clearly better to just let children do whatever it is they want to do. If they want to run across the busy street or play with matches, that's fine. No need for any sort of punishment; heaven forbid a spanking! The consequences of threatening any sort of punishment would have a far more detrimental effect on them.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Mums in the supermarket have to cave to avoid the embarrassing scene of a badly behaved child, and to avoid looking like an abusive mother who denies her child everything.

I get all kinds of nasty looks in stores if my kids are actin the fool. This could have something to do with Iraq deployments messing with my hearing in such a way that I literally do not hear the frequencies that my children whine at, or if I can hear them crying and it's a tantrum, I'm acting like i have headphones on

My mom had a seriously good way of handling acting a fool in public that I have adopted myself. You never have to use it as the threat of it is enough.

She just told me, If you act up in public you are getting smacked.... and then you are getting another one later for each person that looks at her funny for doing it to you....

You learn real quick not to act a fool in public.

Depending on the jursidiction people wil call the PoPo on you for doing that.

Now I just threaten them with "do what I say or I'll tell one of my endless stories, and then start singing." Works every time.

(us neanderthals are not known for our vocal skills).

 Frazzled wrote:
Depending on the jursidiction people wil call the PoPo on you for doing that.

Now I just threaten them with "do what I say or I'll tell one of my endless stories, and then start singing." Works every time.

(us neanderthals are not known for our vocal skills).

Kids don't fear a beating.

What they do fear is one of their friends recording Frazzled acting a fool and putting it on Facebook!

Thats way more true than you realize.

 Frazzled wrote:
Depending on the jursidiction people wil call the PoPo on you for doing that.

Now I just threaten them with "do what I say or I'll tell one of my endless stories, and then start singing." Works every time.

(us neanderthals are not known for our vocal skills).

Takes a couple times before the PoPo can take action on it to record it as abuse vs parenting. And you only really need to do it once to get the message across.

My mother was a realist, when I got older I sassed back and said "if you do, ill call DCFS!"

My mother replied with "Go for it, see if its better in the group home!"

That shut me up quick. My parents were awesome.

It's distasteful to do it in public, but it's not illegal to spank your child. They can call the police if they want to.

Depends on where you are, in some places it is illegal to spank a kid.

For all we know though, the kid was spanked regularly by her parents.

 Da Boss wrote:
Depends on where you are, in some places it is illegal to spank a kid.

For all we know though, the kid was spanked regularly by her parents.

Let me rephrase. In the US, it's not illegal to spank your child.

I should have said that before, as I know spanking is illegal in a lot of European countries (which I think is a bit silly to be honest, but whatever. Your country, your rules and I respect that.), but I figured it was assumed we were talking about the US, since that's where this story is from.



We don't know anything about how the child in this case was or was not disciplined though, and if she's suffering from mental illness, it doesn't really matter.

 Hordini wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Depends on where you are, in some places it is illegal to spank a kid.

For all we know though, the kid was spanked regularly by her parents.

Let me rephrase. In the US, it's not illegal to spank your child.

I should have said that before, as I know spanking is illegal in a lot of European countries (which I think is a bit silly to be honest, but whatever. Your country, your rules and I respect that.), but I figured it was assumed we were talking about the US, since that's where this story is from.



We don't know anything about how the child in this case was or was not disciplined though, and if she's suffering from mental illness, it doesn't really matter.

Again the reality is that depends on the jurisidiction. It is illegal to batter another person. Whether the police prosecute you is something else, but (pulls an Obama) let me be clear-"spanking" is legally at least a misdemeanor battery.
Making them watch Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman is however, perfectly legal.

Just chalk it up to "Spontaneous Kung Fu Sparing Lessons", I am sure teaching your kids martial arts isn't a crime, amirite?

 Frazzled wrote:
Making them watch Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman is however, perfectly legal.

Yet it would still be cruel and unusual.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Depends on where you are, in some places it is illegal to spank a kid.

For all we know though, the kid was spanked regularly by her parents.

Let me rephrase. In the US, it's not illegal to spank your child.

I should have said that before, as I know spanking is illegal in a lot of European countries (which I think is a bit silly to be honest, but whatever. Your country, your rules and I respect that.), but I figured it was assumed we were talking about the US, since that's where this story is from.



We don't know anything about how the child in this case was or was not disciplined though, and if she's suffering from mental illness, it doesn't really matter.

Again the reality is that depends on the jurisidiction. It is illegal to batter another person. Whether the police prosecute you is something else, but (pulls an Obama) let me be clear-"spanking" is legally at least a misdemeanor battery.
Making them watch Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman is however, perfectly legal.

How can it be misdemeanor battery if it's still legal in some schools? There are specific laws stating that corporal punishment by parents is illegal only if it's prolonged, excessive, etc.

Obviously abuse and beating your kids are illegal, but a normal spanking isn't.

Thats a question of fact for a court to decide. Your ass is still in jail.


Not saying I agree or disagree.

I was always told the rule was if there are no marks 24 hrs after the spanking....it's a-ok.

Maybe that's just an Iowa thing....

 Frazzled wrote:
Thats a question of fact for a court to decide. Your ass is still in jail.


Not saying I agree or disagree.

Sorry, I momentarily forgot that the legal system isn't supposed to make sense.