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 hippyjr wrote:
Khorne faction focus doesn't give the weapon profile of the new relic skullreaver -.- what a tease

Any changes to the greater daemons? Like a 4++ or point reduction?

ntin wrote:
Any changes to the greater daemons? Like a 4++ or point reduction?

Only thing so far is a very slight point reduction for kairos and the LoC

ntin wrote:
Any changes to the greater daemons? Like a 4++ or point reduction?

All Deamons are still 5++.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skullreaver is...OK I suppose. It appears you will be able to make some really crazy Greater Deamons but the investment will be high. I'm worried Deamonkin will be out of the question.

But dat Bloodletter bomb lookin spicy.

Personally hoping that the minor reduction in points for the Greater Daemons is indicative that they'll be buffed much further, as opposed to having points reduced.

Not a terrible weapon, for sure. I'm guessing the "sweep" attack update to the Insensate Rage 'thirster is related to his weapon and not the model. If it is a model-based rule, that axe would just be ruinous. Not holding my breath, just musing.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

You are top 10 of daemons in ITC and can't see why cutting the brimes durability by a staggering 66% kills them as viable tarpits/screens?

You'll need to invest 3 times as many points, and models, in order to reach the sane effect.

Yea, brimes were on the strong side, but this renders them non viable, aa being hard to kill for the cost was the only thing they ever did, and now they are not at all.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Personally hoping that the minor reduction in points for the Greater Daemons is indicative that they'll be buffed much further, as opposed to having points reduced.

I’m really hoping for the same, if the +1 invuln stratagem is legit that already goes a long way towards making my LoC way more survivable. Though that’ll really depend on 5e CP cost as well.

Being able to use ld10 is nice...but pretty unimpressive for >300 points, they really need a better aura.

Indeed, Greater Daemons of Khorne – or any Chaos God – have received a significant improvement in the new codex thanks to 24 (yes, 24!) Warlord Traits.

Anyone else find this kinda weird? Why do we need so many Warlord Traits and not more Artifacts / Strats / Powers? I mean there's only going to be a handful of these that I'd want and honestly if I'm using Khorne Deamons to compliment my World Eaters than these won't be used at all. Just a weird place to put so many ideas into.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

You are top 10 of daemons in ITC and can't see why cutting the brimes durability by a staggering 66% kills them as viable tarpits/screens?

You'll need to invest 3 times as many points, and models, in order to reach the sane effect.

Yea, brimes were on the strong side, but this renders them non viable, aa being hard to kill for the cost was the only thing they ever did, and now they are not at all.

You're taking the quote out of context there, friend. The poster I responded to said, quite specifically, "Tzeentch got gutted" and "Changeling was nerfed into the ground", I even quoted the nerfed into the ground part when discussing what I was replying to.

I have ideas for how to move forward with them as an army, not how to ride along the back of a single unit. Beyond that you're injecting your own opinion into my quote, implying I added anything further to how Brimstones will/are performing.

Edit: Hell, I'll clarify further for you, if you'd like. Brimstones are absolutely worse. However, I can't make a complete call on them until I know their points. If they're cheaper, they're still fine as bodies to simply throw into a meat grinder, and if split as a whole has been reduced to be around or below 200pts, then large blobs of pinks fully splitting, AND making use of the +1 INV stratagem is something I'm happy to trade the durability of brimstones for.

Well, optimistically, maybe some of them (traits) won't totally suck?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Personally hoping that the minor reduction in points for the Greater Daemons is indicative that they'll be buffed much further, as opposed to having points reduced.

From my experience Keeper of Secrets is inferior to a Daemon Prince. The 5++ save and 12W makes it can be sniped by anti-tank weapons.

 andysonic1 wrote:

Indeed, Greater Daemons of Khorne – or any Chaos God – have received a significant improvement in the new codex thanks to 24 (yes, 24!) Warlord Traits.

Anyone else find this kinda weird? Why do we need so many Warlord Traits and not more Artifacts / Strats / Powers? I mean there's only going to be a handful of these that I'd want and honestly if I'm using Khorne Deamons to compliment my World Eaters than these won't be used at all. Just a weird place to put so many ideas into.

Yeah 24 is a bit excessive, but when you think about it, any model you pick as your WL will only have access to 6 of those 24 due to them being god-specific.
I would have rather had 3 for each god and maybe another 3 generic that can apply to any alignment. That's 15 total and each WL still have access to 6 codex WL traits.

-

I think flamers will be a pretty big deal for Tzeentch and a great choice for demonic incursion with the range increase.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I think flamers will be a pretty big deal for Tzeentch and a great choice for demonic incursion with the range increase.

Flamers and Exalted Flamers are looking pretty, depending on points changes.

xxhikaru123 where are youuu

zamerion wrote:
xxhikaru123 where are youuu

They found him. Press F to pay respects.

Even if brims are just 3pt models you tack on to horror units to eat morale casualties and mortal wounds I think they're useful and will appear in lists.

Just maybe in the minor role they were actually intended to have rather than the great hordes of 100 we've seen.

It is great to see folks who have amassed 100+ of a particular powerful model progressing into the first stages of grief again though. Always does my heart good.

FudgeDumper wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
The new beast of Nurgle actually have a lot in common with the last generations beast of Nurgle. It astounds me that so many seem to hate the old beast of Nurgle but praise the new, they both have the same type of body and exactly the same arm pose just reversed. I guess what people didn't like about the old beast was that it only had one pose... Oh guess what, the new one also only has one pose! I guess that's what 40 years of expertise gets you.

Because the new one looks like a fun characterful model and the old one looks like a bland, boring, mess.
The new one also has different heads, bellys, tentacles and arms. Allowing some customisation.
Also being plastic, it would be very easy to alter further if you desire.

But essentially for me the new model is a good representation of the fluff. Where as the old one is not.

All your points are complete blasphemy.

Point 1: Son, this is not Pokemon. I'm not trying to argue that the new model is bad, I'm saying its a very expensive single pose model which you will need multiples of. And last generations beast also had a lot of character, its only flaw being a single pose, just like the new one.

Point 2: Oh please, didn't you see the reveal videos? The different face/stomach options is a band aid and it is so obvious its sad.

Point 3: A non argument. If GW had made the new beast of Nurgle out of dog poop it would have been even easier to convert. The new model's body is also a single segment so good luck with any conversions.

Point 4: Totally invalid seeing as both models are basically just fat snails with 2 appendages and a bunch of tentacles on the head. This is proof of your biased stance.

Stop trying to defend a point just for the sake of defending. GW messed up, period.

As a Nurgle-only player I must say both of the beasts are nothing spectacular. The old one was the ugliest model of the whole Nurgle-range, lacking any focus. I painted one and still can't exactly say what that model wants to be. Some mish-mash-snail creature with claws. It also doesn't hold up to its fluff with its pretty grim looking face. The new one is still not a fancy model, but at least it looks as ridiculous as the background describes it and is a bit customizable. Personally I would've liked something more puppy-like, but I guess that would've stepped on the toes of Khorne.

Really want to see the rules of that tree and Horticulous.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

You are top 10 of daemons in ITC and can't see why cutting the brimes durability by a staggering 66% kills them as viable tarpits/screens?

You'll need to invest 3 times as many points, and models, in order to reach the sane effect.

Yea, brimes were on the strong side, but this renders them non viable, aa being hard to kill for the cost was the only thing they ever did, and now they are not at all.

You're taking the quote out of context there, friend. The poster I responded to said, quite specifically, "Tzeentch got gutted" and "Changeling was nerfed into the ground", I even quoted the nerfed into the ground part when discussing what I was replying to.

I have ideas for how to move forward with them as an army, not how to ride along the back of a single unit. Beyond that you're injecting your own opinion into my quote, implying I added anything further to how Brimstones will/are performing.

Edit: Hell, I'll clarify further for you, if you'd like. Brimstones are absolutely worse. However, I can't make a complete call on them until I know their points. If they're cheaper, they're still fine as bodies to simply throw into a meat grinder, and if split as a whole has been reduced to be around or below 200pts, then large blobs of pinks fully splitting, AND making use of the +1 INV stratagem is something I'm happy to trade the durability of brimstones for.

Its all going to be about how cheap the brims are and whether they tweak the splitting rule, but if they are kept the same except the invun nerf then I still believe that horrors have been badly nerfed. The invul strat is great but using it on the horrors means leaving a monster like kairos without. The codex is definately buffing daemons as a whole, but as is it seems like pure Tzeentch will be in a really bad place. I think even best case with new rules for splitting, horrors in general have been heavily nerfed. In my opinion one huge squad of pinks with a 3++ (with strat) with ability to split no way makes up for the fact that we lost one of the best (spammable) screening units.

I hope Bloodthirsters get more boosts. Its my favorite model in my collection but always goes down then 1-2.

The 4++ armor and +1 to invulnerable strategum can go towards that. The armor also looks good on a prince as it can't be targeted specifically, but I like the relic axe on a DP.

Nothing will make up for the loss, it won't ever be the same again.

I'm simply choosing to take the secondary option that isn't lamenting that, and working for how to make it function how it will be, instead of how it was.

It's going to be different. Some things won't be as good. Some things will be better. As it stands, the main models I used previously were Exalted Flamers, and they appear to have been made better, so I will share little tears for Horrors.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
S4 Tzeentch Horrors, Assault 3 if 20+ pink horrors. (30 horrors shooting 90 S4, with reroll 1s to hit and wounds, and +1 to wound)

Xxhikaru: Are you saying Horrors are back to Shooting Attacks rather than Psychic Powers?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Nothing will make up for the loss, it won't ever be the same again.

I'm simply choosing to take the secondary option that isn't lamenting that, and working for how to make it function how it will be, instead of how it was.

It's going to be different. Some things won't be as good. Some things will be better. As it stands, the main models I used previously were Exalted Flamers, and they appear to have been made better, so I will share little tears for Horrors.

You're my new favourite person for this quote (bolded). It's unfortunate when something we like using gets nerfed but that's just life. You can either whine about it, annoy people, and raise your blood pressure, or you can just put on your big daemon pants and deal with it. I just added a Patrol Det to my Tsons that consists only of the Changeling and 10 Brimstone Horrors. All of a sudden I have a whackload of new strategems I can use on things like my Decimators and Magnus. I gain a bit of durability, a mini screen, and whatever other fun treats the Daemons Codex will bring for, if points remain the same, 130 points. Pretty good deal!

 alextroy wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
S4 Tzeentch Horrors, Assault 3 if 20+ pink horrors. (30 horrors shooting 90 S4, with reroll 1s to hit and wounds, and +1 to wound)

Xxhikaru: Are you saying Horrors are back to Shooting Attacks rather than Psychic Powers?

Pink horrors shoot in the index

Yeah but if the leaks are correct, the S of the shooting attack is now "User" instead of 3, so the +1 from the Herald is good. And they gain 1 shoot if they are more than 20 pinks.

Thats sweet.

 anticitizen013 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Nothing will make up for the loss, it won't ever be the same again.

I'm simply choosing to take the secondary option that isn't lamenting that, and working for how to make it function how it will be, instead of how it was.

It's going to be different. Some things won't be as good. Some things will be better. As it stands, the main models I used previously were Exalted Flamers, and they appear to have been made better, so I will share little tears for Horrors.

You're my new favourite person for this quote (bolded). It's unfortunate when something we like using gets nerfed but that's just life. You can either whine about it, annoy people, and raise your blood pressure, or you can just put on your big daemon pants and deal with it. I just added a Patrol Det to my Tsons that consists only of the Changeling and 10 Brimstone Horrors. All of a sudden I have a whackload of new strategems I can use on things like my Decimators and Magnus. I gain a bit of durability, a mini screen, and whatever other fun treats the Daemons Codex will bring for, if points remain the same, 130 points. Pretty good deal!

The more I think about it, I can't see them letting us use those strats on daemons not from the codex. Maybe they will work but can you imagine keeping Morty in reserve, then T1 deep strike, use invun strat on him and try to cast Miasma. That's an 18 wound model with a 3++/5+++ and maybe -1 to hit and heres the kicker its immune to alpha strike, even reserving magnus to make sure you get weavers before being shot wound massively boost him. I'd love there to be synergy but a mans gotta feel dirty about pulling these shenanigans.

@xxhikaru123, are there any changes to Epidemius?

 Latro_ wrote:
aye thats why there is faction keyword and normal keywords especially for that purpose.

...
A big hope I have for the daemons codex is some kinda decent relic/strat that overrides normal summoning e.g. a portal type deep strike thing.

Also glad one of my predictions came true happens from time to time

That armour and axe relic are nice, gonna always go for the added protection myself but lets hope daemons get a strat to buy extra relics like most codex books thus far have had.

Do we know what a daemonic axe is? not sure that is even in the index and might point to some nice weapon options on units

Daemonic Axe is the axe option for Daemon Princes