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DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

I completely disagree. If that is/was true I wish they had put that on the boxes and blister packs so I wouldn't have bothered collecting 24,000 points. Makes me feel I have wasted my time.
It's insulting if that's the case.

During Adepticon, a Podcaster played in a Bushido tournament against one of the designers. He asked him why did he always lose? The designer responded because your faction is broken and doesn’t work at all. The podcaster then quit the game.

I honestly believe GW designers would never do this. But the way players react to Orks being brought to the table remind me of this story. It sucks when your faction is regarded by a lot of the community as “easy to win against”, “a joke”, and “always fun to beat”. The only reason I didn’t sell my army was because of how mug effort I put into them.

I had a conversation with 40k games designers that came dangerously close to this bushido thing. I was at warhammer world for their open day I think in Oct or Nov last year and I play GK and Orks as my main armies but I never mentioned this to them. I asked three designers/writer why my two armies suck. They responded with, when we design the core rules certain armies that push the boundaries fall foul of the rules and are hard to balance for eg horde armies like Orks and elite armies like GK. Imagine my surprise when he stated my two main armies. I pretty much rage quit on the way home from Warhammer World. I've tentatively returned to 40k and I'm playing Deathguard, but compared to playing with Orks, death guard feel like playing 40k on easy mode for me. People want to nerf Orks because they want the good old days when you could ROFL stomp an Ork army without trying and now they feel embarrassed to be beaten by them in anyway because it feels like an insult to their tactical credibility.

 Blackie wrote:
The comparison is unfair: the BW+trukk combo costs basically like a stompa, a land raider+rhino are way cheaper than a titan.

What? I trukk and Wagon is 243 points. A Stompa is 973 points (after Chapter Approved... not sure what it was because I cba getting my index). That's 730 points difference. The Average Landraider and Rhino costs 420pts. The Warhound Scout Titan ( The titan I was talking about. We have to use pre-CA points because that's when GW decided the points for the Stompa ) was about 1500pts. The difference is 1080pts. That's only about 300-400pts difference (which you should expect for Orks). Therefore, the Ork Stompa is a Titan because it was 1K points.

The Forge World Stompa (which is basically just the normal Stompa but with an extra weapon) is 1,219 points. That's 976 points difference between the Stompa and the Trukk+wagon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nithaniel wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

I completely disagree. If that is/was true I wish they had put that on the boxes and blister packs so I wouldn't have bothered collecting 24,000 points. Makes me feel I have wasted my time.
It's insulting if that's the case.

During Adepticon, a Podcaster played in a Bushido tournament against one of the designers. He asked him why did he always lose? The designer responded because your faction is broken and doesn’t work at all. The podcaster then quit the game.

I honestly believe GW designers would never do this. But the way players react to Orks being brought to the table remind me of this story. It sucks when your faction is regarded by a lot of the community as “easy to win against”, “a joke”, and “always fun to beat”. The only reason I didn’t sell my army was because of how mug effort I put into them.

I had a conversation with 40k games designers that came dangerously close to this bushido thing. I was at warhammer world for their open day I think in Oct or Nov last year and I play GK and Orks as my main armies but I never mentioned this to them. I asked three designers/writer why my two armies suck. They responded with, when we design the core rules certain armies that push the boundaries fall foul of the rules and are hard to balance for eg horde armies like Orks and elite armies like GK. Imagine my surprise when he stated my two main armies. I pretty much rage quit on the way home from Warhammer World. I've tentatively returned to 40k and I'm playing Deathguard, but compared to playing with Orks, death guard feel like playing 40k on easy mode for me. People want to nerf Orks because they want the good old days when you could ROFL stomp an Ork army without trying and now they feel embarrassed to be beaten by them in anyway because it feels like an insult to their tactical credibility.

It's not hard... GW just had no idea how to do it or what to do... I'll admit, it's impossible to make everyone pure happy and fix every balance issue in a game as large as 40k, but many other companies and games have come pretty close to the point not many people even notice. Hell, even fans have done a better job than GW!

I believe blackie was referring to the price of the models; a Trukk + wagon is much closer to the price of a stomps then the imprrial stuff.
Getting a warhound for the cost of the other two would be crazy good value. A stomp and for the price of a wagon and trukk? Meh

I can get behind the idea of a Stompa being a big, expensive (in terms of points) model that is mostly for Apocalypse games. Right now the problem with that is the way Macro weapons were implemented the Stompa stands no chance. So the Stompa is too expensive for normal games and doesn't have the firepower or survivability for Apocalypse games. Of course Apoc games are for fun, and I don't mind seeing my Stompa get blown up, but it's so bad in both settings that I would only be taking it for a laugh.

I am happy that we can get a titan in plastic for relatively little money. That's definitely cool.

 hippyjr wrote:
I believe blackie was referring to the price of the models; a Trukk + wagon I said much closer to the price of a stomps then the imprrial stuff.
Getting a warhound for the cost of the other two would be crazy good value. A stomp and for the price of a wagon and trukk? Meh

It's not my fault GW priced the Stompa at only £70. XD You should ask them why a Titan can be so cheap. Although... I would have to say... You can buy a brick for only basically nothing... doesn't mean I'd ever want to use it in 40k

Yeah I mean money cost of course.

Do you want to know the reason why the stompa is so cheap for being a titan? Because it sucks on the battlefield It's basically the orks imperial knight rather than the ork titan.

If he had an higher cost no one would buy it. I don't think there are many people that are willing to buy at even now.

It seems like it might be good for cutting up and turning into other things. Lots of good bits.

I really miss the old Kustom Stompa rules. There used to be so many fun options. The current Kustom Stompa rules got rid of a bunch of the options, and pretty much only serve to make the Stompa even worse.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I mean money cost of course.

Do you want to know the reason why the stompa is so cheap for being a titan? Because it sucks on the battlefield It's basically the orks imperial knight rather than the ork titan.

If he had an higher cost no one would buy it. I don't think there are many people that are willing to buy at even now.

I would says the Nauts are the Knights... they're about the price of what an Ork Knight should be anyway and they reach their height with about the same amount if weapons.

One day I'll buy a stompa just because they look good. A lot of the time I buy and paint just for my self than i do for battle.

Going by Epic, lolman1c, Stompas were the equivalent to Imperial Knights - Gargants (of various forms) are the Ork Titan equivalents.

And as for a use for a brick in 40k? An effective way of discouraging people from playing Tau (by destroying the anime crud).

Stompas are more like Titans than like Knights.

I agree.... If a Knight fought a Stompa in reality, I feel the Stompa would just fall on it and squish it.

Well, a stompa is the same hight as a knight but + the head bit.

Standard Stompa, no upgrades Vs Marines in the open.

Big Shootas: 5 x 3 shots = 15 shots, 5 hits, S5 vs T4 = 3.6 Wounds, Vs 3+ save = 1.2 Dead Marines

Deff Kannon: 3.5 Shots on average, 1.16 hits, S10 vs T4 = .97 Wounds on average -4 AP vs 3+ save = .97 Dead Marines

Skorcha: 3.5 hits on average, S5 Vs T4 = 2.33 Wounds -1AP vs 3+ save = 1.165 Dead Marines on average

Supa Gatla: 7 Shots on average, 2.33 Hits, S7 VS T4 = 1.94 Wounds -2 AP Vs 3+ save = 1.29 Dead Marines

Grand Total: 4.62 Marines In the the open Killed.

Vs a Predator: (Because I know someone is going to say the multiple damage is important): "All weapons are firing against a T7 3+ save model"

Big Shootas: .555 damage

Deff Kannon: 77% chance to do 1xD6 damage or 2.72 damage on average.

Skorcha: .58 damage

Supa Gatla: .77 damage

Grand Total: 4.62 damage against a T7 3+ save model on average.

For almost 1,000pts........

SemperMortis wrote:
Standard Stompa, no upgrades Vs Marines in the open.

Big Shootas: 5 x 3 shots = 15 shots, 5 hits, S5 vs T4 = 3.6 Wounds, Vs 3+ save = 1.2 Dead Marines

Deff Kannon: 3.5 Shots on average, 1.16 hits, S10 vs T4 = .97 Wounds on average -4 AP vs 3+ save = .97 Dead Marines

Skorcha: 3.5 hits on average, S5 Vs T4 = 2.33 Wounds -1AP vs 3+ save = 1.165 Dead Marines on average

Supa Gatla: 7 Shots on average, 2.33 Hits, S7 VS T4 = 1.94 Wounds -2 AP Vs 3+ save = 1.29 Dead Marines

Grand Total: 4.62 Marines In the the open Killed.

Vs a Predator: (Because I know someone is going to say the multiple damage is important): "All weapons are firing against a T7 3+ save model"

Big Shootas: .555 damage

Deff Kannon: 77% chance to do 1xD6 damage or 2.72 damage on average.

Skorcha: .58 damage

Supa Gatla: .77 damage

Grand Total: 4.62 damage against a T7 3+ save model on average.

For almost 1,000pts........

B-BUT YOU GOT 40 WOUNDS!!!! Not like a few lascannon teams can deal with this in a few turns... XD

Stompa changed to bs4 it'll be worth its points or close to it

It wouldn't even if it had bs 2+.

 koooaei wrote:
It wouldn't even if it had bs 2+.

Yeah...the problem is that for the points you're paying your shooting is ridiculously anemic for a super heavy, you may as well take equivalent KMK/tankbustas for the same points and have a vastly stronger army, partly because its not all on one shootable platform. Similarly, CC wise it's practically the equivalent of a Gorkanaut's output, which for its price is ridiculous. It needs an entire overhaul and price cut before it goes into anywhere near the optimal range.

SemperMortis can you do the same with a more "regular" stompa... with some funny options
pliiiiiz
Edit: Euh nothin' ... i had a rough day... sorry for the useless post

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
It wouldn't even if it had bs 2+.

Yeah...the problem is that for the points you're paying your shooting is ridiculously anemic for a super heavy, you may as well take equivalent KMK/tankbustas for the same points and have a vastly stronger army, partly because its not all on one shootable platform. Similarly, CC wise it's practically the equivalent of a Gorkanaut's output, which for its price is ridiculous. It needs an entire overhaul and price cut before it goes into anywhere near the optimal range.

You can get about 60-100 Ork boyz for one stompa or something... so why would you not just bring more Boyz?

 lolman1c wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
I believe blackie was referring to the price of the models; a Trukk + wagon I said much closer to the price of a stomps then the imprrial stuff.
Getting a warhound for the cost of the other two would be crazy good value. A stomp and for the price of a wagon and trukk? Meh

It's not my fault GW priced the Stompa at only £70. XD You should ask them why a Titan can be so cheap. Although... I would have to say... You can buy a brick for only basically nothing... doesn't mean I'd ever want to use it in 40k

Because that's what the price of the kit was when it was first released and GW doesn't really raise the prices on their stuff and hasn't done so in a long time.

They've basically adopted a policy of "Old stuff stays the same, but new stuff will be more expensive."

It was terrible back in 7th with the new codex from then. If a Stompa fought an Imperial Knight the Knight won 90% of the time. The Morkanaut/Gorkanaut fluff wise we’re introduced as Ork Knights. Which made it all more surprising that they were not super heavies and died easily by Knights.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
It was terrible back in 7th with the new codex from then. If a Stompa fought an Imperial Knight the Knight won 90% of the time. The Morkanaut/Gorkanaut fluff wise we’re introduced as Ork Knights. Which made it all more surprising that they were not super heavies and died easily by Knights.

Even playing the Gorka/Moranaught as superheavies didn't really help with their performance against an Imperial Knight.

Yeah I know about dimensions, I was talking about competitiveness. The stompa performs like a knight, in fact for what it does it should cost 500ish points, not something like 1000, which is the cost of the knights, right? The nauts are not even comparable to knights Anyway ork walkers are all bigger than the marines equivalent, even the deff dread is quite taller than a dreadnought and I was shoked when I assembled my SW ones to see how tiny they are sitting next to the ork walker.

Unless the stompa gets better rules, and it need to be improved really a lot, it will always a lackluster overcosted knight

40 wounds for 1000 points are not enough, we're talking about a model with T8, 3+ save and no invuln. I don't have the titans profile with me but I think they're way more resilient.

And for 1000 points you can field 2 baneblades or 2 imperial knight for a grand total of 52W with the tanks and 48 plus invluns with the knights. I don't even want to start saying how killy these imperial LoW are comparing to a single stompa

Pretty sure the baneblades or something do double damage to titans (and the stompa has the titan keyword).

Sorry if this is unrelated, but to me the Stompa looks like one of those fat sleepy children in anime. You know, the ones with the slit eyes that roll around on the floor for comedy relief? Or just a Snorlax, that too.

lliu wrote:
Sorry if this is unrelated, but to me the Stompa looks like one of those fat sleepy children in anime. You know, the ones with the slit eyes that roll around on the floor for comedy relief? Or just a Snorlax, that too.

Haha... yeah!

Should Orks be nerfed?

Hahahahahahahahaha...haaaah... no.

Orks are one of the weaker armies in the game right now, consistently not winning anything in the tournament scenes. Purist marine armies, imperial soup armies, purist guard armies, eldar, chaos soup and chaos purists, all do better than Orks. If Orks need to be nerfed, then all these stronger armies need to be nerfed harder.

about the stompa.. i think it should be more around the 600-650 pts range, and lose some randomnes by changing the weapons from heavy 2D6 to Heavy15 or so. And give it grott gunners for the BS4+.
I never tested it that way (i only use him as terrain) but this could fix it IMO

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
It wouldn't even if it had bs 2+.

Yeah...the problem is that for the points you're paying your shooting is ridiculously anemic for a super heavy, you may as well take equivalent KMK/tankbustas for the same points and have a vastly stronger army, partly because its not all on one shootable platform. Similarly, CC wise it's practically the equivalent of a Gorkanaut's output, which for its price is ridiculous. It needs an entire overhaul and price cut before it goes into anywhere near the optimal range.

For the same price as 1 stompa you can take 23 KMK Mek Gunz which put out 80-81 S8 AP-3 D3 damage shots a turn on average and have a grand total of 138 wounds on the KMKs and 115 wounds on the Grotz.

And keep in mind that the crew and the Gun are separate entities once deployed so you have 46 units compared to 1 for the Stompa, so overkill will happen.

If I had the money/time and complete lack of conscious, I would field an Ork Army of 90 Boyz, a couple big mekz and 30 KMK Mek gunz

tbh, you would have to be a mad man to think the Stompa is a good unit. XD