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Dudeface wrote:

Bago wrote:
Yeah no real "reliable" sources and the reliable feed fro. WHC did their thing, I'd guess. Now we had some rumours that hit home, so yeah. I am really excited if its gonna be Imps and Nids (two armies I play) or Custodes and GSC (GSC I am currently buying into). I find it really interesting that CC was a loss on each box. But that would not really explain all this communication mishap and stuff. I mean they would know that beforehand right? I am working in the automotive sector and currently every BEV is a loss. But they know this and calculate it and other models have better margins financing this

It might have become a loss if they had to replace delayed/missing components on site rather than cheaper abroad or if a large volume of stock was lost without being able to cover it via insurance fully etc. Then there's overhead of design and man hours to factor in. Something unexpected obviously happened either way and if it drove the cost of production beyond a reasonable return I could imagine the higher ups pulling the plug.

Yeah that sounds reasonable, I did not consider this.

I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.

GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.

 Tyran wrote:
I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.

GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.

Nids feel like they are at the point where they could be a filler release. Barring superheavies or terrain, the only kits they really need are li tors and biovore/pyrovores. Redone gaunts and gene stealers would be a nice to have, but not really necessary. Codex, cards, dice, handful of kits, done. They could even throw the lictor in a battle box vs say guard.

Far more inclined to believe the B&C source with a proven track record (prices being lowered in AU?!??!?), but we'll know which is more/less reliable once the Dec books are revealed.

Exciting times!

 Sasori wrote:

JP, NZ and AU markets to get a price adjustment *down* towards EU levels after the high entry barrier stunting growth

Probably the most unbelievable part of the rumor. It would make a ton of sense, but I don't think there is any chance of this happening.

Yeah lol

We'll know sooner than that, given there was a complete breakdown of what's in the BT launch box too.

chaos0xomega wrote:
That sounds like a lot of guesswork and made up gak...

So do the B&C rumours. They both could be making everything up.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...

How do we know that?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...

How do we know that?

GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.

Given the rumor engine images from the past many months the only other 40k looking things looked like Tyranid or maybe GSC-nid type models.

I would bet the next xenos codex is GSC or nids.

 Kanluwen wrote:
We'll know sooner than that, given there was a complete breakdown of what's in the BT launch box too.

The 4chan one didn't give a breakdown of the BT launch box, so we can't actually contrast the two until one of their contrasting predictions appears on the calendar.

Hmm just reading through the "whole dump" of these rumours, and the opening paragraph...

'Generic anonymous poster on TG who has had a long happy career and doesn't want to rock the boat by influencing decisions.'

So this is from someone who retired recently? Jervis Johnson?


I don't know how these rumours work but there are some points that make logical sense. What makes me wonder though, realistically what are the odds that all these ideas, across all games, rules, business dealings, artists, manufacturers etc... all came from the same guy? I mean is this something one single guy at GW would have access to? If so I imagine it must be someone high up?

 Marshal Loss wrote:
The 4chan one didn't give a breakdown of the BT launch box, so we can't actually contrast the two until one of their contrasting predictions appears on the calendar.

And even if it did, it would be pretty easy to just parrot the B&C rumour and go "See? I was right, too!".

That's why I don't trust any of this gak.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
.

Not necessarily... It could have cost them money, because they have decided to take a hit on it. Something obviously went wrong with Cursed City, and if they didn't get all the components made/delivered (still in dispute with some manufacturers) they may not have had enough copies ready to sell for their break even line, let alone make a profit on it. That £60 could include design costs, production costs like molds etc as well as just base materials for manufacture.

I don't actually think it would be as high as £60 per box personally, but GW taking a hit on it could be plausible, there really doesn't seem to be that many of the boxes out there (which makes the amount shipped out to influencers even more perplexing but hey...).

If this was the case then they would be strongly incentivized to print and sell more copies to hit break-even.

Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.

 xttz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...

How do we know that?

GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.

Yep, one of the designers at a previous Warhammer fest said something to the effect that in its first week on sale AT outsold the games entire first year of projected sales by some multiple (iirc 4-5x) and that the sales continued to outperform expectations after that

Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.

It has been a wild year and a half so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of factors that changed along the ways along with the friends we've made.

Regarding sales of Titanicus it is hard to say if the sales numbers continued after the initial year. With no data we have no idea if AT has continued to perform or went down. Where I live the first Grand Master starter sold remarkably well along with the first few releases, but after that sales dropped and some battleforces and starters are languishing in the shelves as there are barely a handful of people playing it locally.

Again, hard to tell unless we have direct access to sales data.

It could also be that the "sales weren't there" is associated with AI rather than AT and that AT just doesn't have any future plans after the original roadmap, which in most instances means GW abandons the project and the line sort of dies until a designer/team decides to revisit it. It is not uncommon for game companies to finish a roadmap and then just not think about creating a new one unless it is one of the lead moneymakers.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The "we took a 60GBP hit per copy of Cursed City sold" bit sounds like a huuuuuuuuge load of bs. It would not and could not cost GW 185+ GBP per copy to produce, manufacture, and deliver that product. If the printed components and overseas shipping situation were the huge issues that they were rumored to be, then Dominion and the Kill Team box would have been similarly impacted (as the price for container shipping has only continued to climb since Cursed City released).
.

Not necessarily... It could have cost them money, because they have decided to take a hit on it. Something obviously went wrong with Cursed City, and if they didn't get all the components made/delivered (still in dispute with some manufacturers) they may not have had enough copies ready to sell for their break even line, let alone make a profit on it. That £60 could include design costs, production costs like molds etc as well as just base materials for manufacture.

I don't actually think it would be as high as £60 per box personally, but GW taking a hit on it could be plausible, there really doesn't seem to be that many of the boxes out there (which makes the amount shipped out to influencers even more perplexing but hey...).

If this was the case then they would be strongly incentivized to print and sell more copies to hit break-even.

Even still - mega unlikely this is the case, they were messaging an intent to support the product up until release, they would have known the cost of goods sold well before this point, theres few if any scenarios where they go to launch amd suddenly realize they are operatong at a loss.

Cursed City stinks of a contract dispute at the moment, even if they could get more components now, lawyers will have mothballed everything.

And there are scenarios, a massive shipment of components not arriving on time and being told by the manufacturers it will arrive until a few weeks before release date, with GW knowing they could still pull it together and get them out till that point.

You can't sell an incomplete item, so not being able to sell the full allocation affects the profit on those that have sold.

I'd laugh so hard if it turned out Cursed City had half of the rulebooks & components stuck aboard the Ever Given

 xttz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...

How do we know that?

GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.

Yeah, and GW is smart about marketing no matter what forum dwellers say. If they're selling out, they're making plenty of money. Their breakeven point would be well below a sellout. Shoot, FW can't keep their resin components for AT in stock either. But the part I believe even less is that there were plans to 'combine' AT and AI. That sounds a lot like the standard forum chatter from people who don't play those games but see similarly scaled miniatures. I'm much more likely to believe that they're simply nearing the finish line for the AT:HH project.

And the way I look at it...if it's done after 2022, then 2022 should be an awesome year for the game, probably with two more Titan chassis and one or more corrupted Titans. In that instance, the game honestly would be in a good place. I could definitely see a pause at that point. Any xenos Titans, etc. would likely come later in a Adeptus Titanicus: The Scouring relaunch or something like that anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:
I'd laugh so hard if it turned out Cursed City had half of the rulebooks & components stuck aboard the Ever Given

I figure it's all resting on the ocean floor next to the Eldar Falcon tanks.

Those rumours are fun but don't seem very credible.

 gorgon wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mega-doubt AT "winds down" with no new releases, its been one of GWs best selling product ranges...

How do we know that?

GW described the Warlord titan as one of the best selling models in 2018, and people have talked to studio staff at events who said similar things about sales greatly beating their forecasts. AT stuff has also completely sold out of stock repeatedly, even before the issues in 2020.

Yeah, and GW is smart about marketing no matter what forum dwellers say. If they're selling out, they're making plenty of money. Their breakeven point would be well below a sellout. Shoot, FW can't keep their resin components for AT in stock either. But the part I believe even less is that there were plans to 'combine' AT and AI. That sounds a lot like the standard forum chatter from people who don't play those games but see similarly scaled miniatures. I'm much more likely to believe that they're simply nearing the finish line for the AT:HH project.

And the way I look at it...if it's done after 2022, then 2022 should be an awesome year for the game, probably with two more Titan chassis and one or more corrupted Titans. In that instance, the game honestly would be in a good place. I could definitely see a pause at that point. Any xenos Titans, etc. would likely come later in a Adeptus Titanicus: The Scouring relaunch or something like that anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:
I'd laugh so hard if it turned out Cursed City had half of the rulebooks & components stuck aboard the Ever Given

I figure it's all resting on the ocean floor next to the Eldar Falcon tanks.

I thought it was land raiders

 Eldarsif wrote:
Regarding sales of Titanicus it is hard to say if the sales numbers continued after the initial year. With no data we have no idea if AT has continued to perform or went down. Where I live the first Grand Master starter sold remarkably well along with the first few releases, but after that sales dropped and some battleforces and starters are languishing in the shelves as there are barely a handful of people playing it locally.

If you genuinely have maniple boxes just sitting on shelves in your area...well, I'm not telling you to scalp them but people are looking for them and can't find them anywhere.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Yep, one of the designers at a previous Warhammer fest said something to the effect that in its first week on sale AT outsold the games entire first year of projected sales by some multiple (iirc 4-5x) and that the sales continued to outperform expectations after that

Maybe next time they start epic related game they up expections. Epic armageddon exceeded gw's expectations by 400%.

Didn't save from mothballin though

Seems like obliterators are not on the radar for csm. Really hate when they release a unit in a big box and never release it afterwards as a real kit (or years later)

Suppressors, Venomcrawlers, and Obliterators.

All things that could do with proper kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Suppressors, Venomcrawlers, and Obliterators.

All things that could do with proper kits.

I got as many VC and Oblits as I ever intend to own. Mutilators would be nice. Or VC with alternate options at least.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Seems like obliterators are not on the radar for csm. Really hate when they release a unit in a big box and never release it afterwards as a real kit (or years later)

hopefully it doesn't take as long to get them as deffcoptas

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I got as many VC and Oblits as I ever intend to own.

Bully for you, but I'm sure far more of us would prefer proper kits for these things.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Mutilators would be nice. Or VC with alternate options at least.

A Oblit/Mutilator kit would be nice.

 Tyran wrote:
I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.

GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.

The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.

Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.

drbored wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.

GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.

The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.

Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.

Well there is the rumour of a KT box of Catachans vs Nids in the jungle- good chance for a lictor killteam perhaps?

 silverstu wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
I'm slightly conflicted, while I would prefer a Tyranid codex, I acknowledge the fact that GSC, Tau and Eldar are in a bigger need of an update.

GSC and Tau are basically unplayable, while the Eldar miniature range is gak. That isn't to say that Tyranids are in a great place, but our miniature range is decent and the army is playable even if weak.

The big thing here is that GSC will likely just get a character (rumored saboteur) and a rules update, which is all they really need. So it'll be fast, get them up and running, and then we move on to other things.

Tyranids need a bit more love. At LEAST get the Lictor into plastic.

Well there is the rumour of a KT box of Catachans vs Nids in the jungle- good chance for a lictor killteam perhaps?

Where was that rumor? First I ever heard of it.

I'd seen people wish-listing for it, but I hadn't seen any rumours about it.

That rumor came from Bob on War of Sigmar.