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GW succeeds in spite of itself (see full quotation in the OP, below).
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your mind

soviet13 wrote:
Note that 100% of poll respondents agree that GW is a success.

Definitions may vary... financially, superficially, or in winning the hearts and minds of neckbeards, these might correspond with 'success' differently defined.
"Succeeding in spite of themselves' seems to imply that 'success' is defined superficially/financially, with the 'in spite of themselves' being failure in other regards.
Interesting point. Thank you for the clarity!

   
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Ship's Officer





soviet13 wrote:
Note that 100% of poll respondents agree that GW is a success.


You'd have to be super in denial to think GW isn't at it's best in years terms of stuff like stock value/profits/popularity.

Really, the best thing to do would be ask yourself, if tomorrow a small company like Wyrd or Osprey decided to follow GWs methods of business (inflated prices, dedicated stores, poor rules etc) would they succeed? I suspect we know the answer. I don't think it's fair to judge GW as being successful when compared to other minis companies because Warhammer and GW is such a massive enterprise that it dwarfs every other competitor in the industry, MAYBE Asomdee or Hasbro could be comparible? Warhammer is an entity unto itself.


 
   
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GW in the late 90's early 00's was not doing well. They were pulling games, down sizing stores or closing them all together, but by the late 00's early 10's they had turned it around by really branching out in to other areas, books and computer games, which renewed interest in the games and now they are a massive success, expanding their business model and online presence to the point where they just built (building??) an additional warehouse to stock all the products they need.

They might have some obnoxious business practices but they are all about sales now, not about the players. They have a hugely successful IP that they can sell in multiple ways now and with books and computer games they can constantly release new stuff to buy. Books get churned out so fast its almost impossible to keep up for a casual reader.

So in part, they do succeed in spite of themselves. They can live off of their IP, but at the same time, they've recognised flawed or failing business pratices and replaced them with effective ones.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sim-Life wrote:


Really, the best thing to do would be ask yourself, if tomorrow a small company like Wyrd or Osprey decided to follow GWs methods of business (inflated prices, dedicated stores, poor rules etc) would they succeed? I suspect we know the answer.


No they wouldnt, but you're highlighting a part of GW that 20 years ago was failing for exactly those reasons. They had to expand in to new areas and get out of others to become the success they are today. Other companies cant really do that because they don't have that sort of IP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/16 12:33:55


 
   
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The world has also changed quite significantly since GW’s earlier days.

For a start, in the U.K.? GW are the reason we don’t really have FLGS in every town or area. GW got there first, so anyone trying the same is going up against the juggernaut of the industry.

I firmly dispute the prices are “inflated”. I mean, compared to which other range for their games? When I hear inflated prices, I think comparisons between say, high street petrol and fast food, compared to motorway service station petrol and fast food. The latter is the exact same stuff, but a good chunk more expensive. GW also offer stuff their competitors don’t via the in-store experience. That costs them, so it’s factored into everyone’s prices. I do of course appreciate not everyone has a local GW store, but my point stands. Nor do these other companies tend to own their own production facilities either.

As for bad rules? That’s just incredibly subjective. I don’t enjoy X-Wing, because their rules rely so much upon player skill, you need opponents to go easy on you when you’re starting out. Without that crucial factor, you’re just gonna get spanked. Infinity is overly detailed for my tastes, preventing it being accessible to me.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


As for bad rules? That’s just incredibly subjective. I don’t enjoy X-Wing, because their rules rely so much upon player skill, you need opponents to go easy on you when you’re starting out. Without that crucial factor, you’re just gonna get spanked. Infinity is overly detailed for my tastes, preventing it being accessible to me.


Fair point Doc, like I mentioned back at the start of the thread I'm all about the theorycraft as a side effect of MTG and MMO's, 7th really was as bad as it got and the logic of anything has to be better led to me and daddy dubs parting ways (and Spaceships of course)

And yes other games can be hard to get into but I think one advantage of my small local group is we tend to pick up new games as a group so everyone starts broadly on the same level, Infinity sort got overlooked locally as its main advocate was a system jumper who'd give up once everybody dun git gooded without grasping those cycles tend to repeat

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
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 Eldarsif wrote:


Sample size 200 is atrocious when you think about the fact that a very limited age range of people actually go on old school forums like Dakkadakka. Forums are almost like a time capsule of people who grew up in the 80s and 90s with maybe a young whipper snapper that seems to accidentally sign up on here.

I think a lot of users overestimate Dakkadakka and their own importance in the Warhammer ecosphere when the Warhammer and wargaming community at large just doesn't think Dakkadakka is worth their time.


And yet, more of 40k's writers and creators have accounts here than anyplace but twitter. I would suggest that Dakka's 'importance' might be greater than you think. Also, the same 'echo chamber' issue applies to any online community.

 Eldarsif wrote:


The sad thing is that this negativity - which people want to desperately deny - just makes the place unattractive for newcomers. You can claim that one is toxic for pointing out actual problems, but in the end it just reinforces the negative echo chamber and limits who actually bothers visiting this place.


Funny, the only one gaking on dakka here is you.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

It is absolutely atrocious sample size for a gaming community, especially when it doesn't factor in things like psychology (read: online communities tend to be echo chambers). The League of Legends subreddit for example is probably about 10 to 20 times larger than this board is, but Riot games has stated on more than one occasion that it is a vocal minority and basically useless as feedback for game design.


Let me amend that then, for a non-video game community (with less than 115 million players, we're so tiny!).

Oh, and, just, fyi, that's what every game company in existence says about their online player base, every time the players state they want something the company does not want to deliver on. Whether it's true or not. When CCP had 90% of it's active accounts vote on something, they were dismissed as a 'vocal minority'.


 Daedalus81 wrote:

B&C is like a whole different world basically because it is more strictly moderated:


A world currently begging for money to stay open?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

People come to Dakka for the fight. Sane people don't post here.


I should probably point out that the politics forum is closed, and the fight has gone elsewhere.



Also, I just have to note that while a lot of you gak on dakka, not one of you has actually demonstrated that you wouldn't get exactly the same result anywhere else. Maybe you should try proving your points instead of just attacking the community when they voice an opinion you don't like?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/16 20:52:04



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 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


As for bad rules? That’s just incredibly subjective. I don’t enjoy X-Wing, because their rules rely so much upon player skill, you need opponents to go easy on you when you’re starting out. Without that crucial factor, you’re just gonna get spanked. Infinity is overly detailed for my tastes, preventing it being accessible to me.


Fair point Doc, like I mentioned back at the start of the thread I'm all about the theorycraft as a side effect of MTG and MMO's, 7th really was as bad as it got and the logic of anything has to be better led to me and daddy dubs parting ways (and Spaceships of course)

And yes other games can be hard to get into but I think one advantage of my small local group is we tend to pick up new games as a group so everyone starts broadly on the same level, Infinity sort got overlooked locally as its main advocate was a system jumper who'd give up once everybody dun git gooded without grasping those cycles tend to repeat


I feel it basically boils down to what you’re looking for.

If you want a game where player skill is the decisive factor? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

If you want a game with super intricate rules which take a week to read and months to learn the practical basis thereof? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

Neither of those scenarios, on either side of the equation, are wrong or unreasonable. At all. Horses for Courses, Different Strokes for Different Folks etc.

But what does baffle me is people claiming GW are “failing” because said person enjoys another game, and GW don’t offer a direct analogous experience. Similarly, those who demand GW write their rules expressly for Big Wanger Competitive Play.

However. I am not a dick about such things. I’ve been involved with GW for literal decades. A good 75% of my life so far. I also have a complete suite of Rogue Trader era books. And owning said suite of books? Anyone who feels GW’s “oh god, put an Elastoplast here, here, and…erm…..here” approach is new is, I’m afraid, quite wrong.

Should they be better at it by now? Well. Possibly. But….having grown up with wonky shonky “sod it close enough” rules writing? This is old hat to me. To me, it’s almost an intrinsic part of said experience. I’ll tell you one thing it is though. Profitable. With a single WD article or a whole new Codex, what’s “good/passable/crap” can be changed for little cost to GW.

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.

If you don’t like how they go about it? Well. There are a few options. The two extremes are “hush now and accept this is how the world works” and “well just sell up and walk away”. In between there’s at least “just play the edition you enjoyed the most” and “why not simply house rule it?”. What gets on my wick ar those who hang around, seemingly for the sole purpose of reminding people just how much they don’t enjoy X, and therefore anyone who happens to enjoy X is be default mentally deficient.

Sorry. I whimbrled. Yeah. whimbrled

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.


This is actually a bit of a grey area. While GW wanting to make money is not, in and of itself, a sin, some of their business practices are dubious at best, and *are* a basis for criticism.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Ship's Officer





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


As for bad rules? That’s just incredibly subjective. I don’t enjoy X-Wing, because their rules rely so much upon player skill, you need opponents to go easy on you when you’re starting out. Without that crucial factor, you’re just gonna get spanked. Infinity is overly detailed for my tastes, preventing it being accessible to me.


Fair point Doc, like I mentioned back at the start of the thread I'm all about the theorycraft as a side effect of MTG and MMO's, 7th really was as bad as it got and the logic of anything has to be better led to me and daddy dubs parting ways (and Spaceships of course)

And yes other games can be hard to get into but I think one advantage of my small local group is we tend to pick up new games as a group so everyone starts broadly on the same level, Infinity sort got overlooked locally as its main advocate was a system jumper who'd give up once everybody dun git gooded without grasping those cycles tend to repeat


I feel it basically boils down to what you’re looking for.

If you want a game where player skill is the decisive factor? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

If you want a game with super intricate rules which take a week to read and months to learn the practical basis thereof? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

Neither of those scenarios, on either side of the equation, are wrong or unreasonable. At all. Horses for Courses, Different Strokes for Different Folks etc.

But what does baffle me is people claiming GW are “failing” because said person enjoys another game, and GW don’t offer a direct analogous experience. Similarly, those who demand GW write their rules expressly for Big Wanger Competitive Play.

However. I am not a dick about such things. I’ve been involved with GW for literal decades. A good 75% of my life so far. I also have a complete suite of Rogue Trader era books. And owning said suite of books? Anyone who feels GW’s “oh god, put an Elastoplast here, here, and…erm…..here” approach is new is, I’m afraid, quite wrong.

Should they be better at it by now? Well. Possibly. But….having grown up with wonky shonky “sod it close enough” rules writing? This is old hat to me. To me, it’s almost an intrinsic part of said experience. I’ll tell you one thing it is though. Profitable. With a single WD article or a whole new Codex, what’s “good/passable/crap” can be changed for little cost to GW.

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.

If you don’t like how they go about it? Well. There are a few options. The two extremes are “hush now and accept this is how the world works” and “well just sell up and walk away”. In between there’s at least “just play the edition you enjoyed the most” and “why not simply house rule it?”. What gets on my wick ar those who hang around, seemingly for the sole purpose of reminding people just how much they don’t enjoy X, and therefore anyone who happens to enjoy X is be default mentally deficient.

Sorry. I whimbrled. Yeah. whimbrled


Please stop beating that genetic fallacy , it's got nothing left to give. What people want from GW is not what people expected from them 30 or 20 years ago. People expect more professional rules now than they used to. Look at any competitive video game, people will find broken stuff quickly and complain until its patched. GW doesn't have the luxury of being able to sit on there arse over broken stuff anymore because the internet enables them to implement changes quickly and for free. They just don't care enough to make the changes to the game that people are asking for.

Also people love Warhammer. If GW aren't meeting their needs as customers they're allowed to complain. If you want a hugbox theres a bunch of Facebook and Reddit groups you can join.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 11:54:48



 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:


Sample size 200 is atrocious when you think about the fact that a very limited age range of people actually go on old school forums like Dakkadakka. Forums are almost like a time capsule of people who grew up in the 80s and 90s with maybe a young whipper snapper that seems to accidentally sign up on here.

I think a lot of users overestimate Dakkadakka and their own importance in the Warhammer ecosphere when the Warhammer and wargaming community at large just doesn't think Dakkadakka is worth their time.


And yet, more of 40k's writers and creators have accounts here than anyplace but twitter. I would suggest that Dakka's 'importance' might be greater than you think. Also, the same 'echo chamber' issue applies to any online community.


That's a notable unsubstantiated claim, care to back it up?
   
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Dudeface wrote:

That's a notable unsubstantiated claim, care to back it up?


You've had at least two people who've had their real names in the credits of 40k products (when that was still a thing) post in this thread. As you'd know if you've been around Dakka long enough.

Edit: as further proof of my position on war-hammer polls, this recently came out:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 13:29:33



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Charlotte, NC

As little as six months ago, I would have said false, because there is no viable alternative for their miniatures. Then I started to look at what people are doing with resin printers in the past few months, and now I am in the true camp. IMHO they are running on inertia right now, and the 3D printers will kill them in a very short time if not already. IP will be the only thing that they have once the aggregate of their customer base gain access to 3D printers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 13:32:07


 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

That's a notable unsubstantiated claim, care to back it up?


You've had at least two people who've had their real names in the credits of 40k products (when that was still a thing) post in this thread. As you'd know if you've been around Dakka long enough.

Edit: as further proof of my position on war-hammer polls, this recently came out:

Spoiler:


Well, care to point out who those people are, even by their username as to not give a real identity if required? I don't think a sly wink and a "trust me" is enough to validate that statement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 13:42:33


 
   
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your mind

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Spoiler:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


As for bad rules? That’s just incredibly subjective. I don’t enjoy X-Wing, because their rules rely so much upon player skill, you need opponents to go easy on you when you’re starting out. Without that crucial factor, you’re just gonna get spanked. Infinity is overly detailed for my tastes, preventing it being accessible to me.


Fair point Doc, like I mentioned back at the start of the thread I'm all about the theorycraft as a side effect of MTG and MMO's, 7th really was as bad as it got and the logic of anything has to be better led to me and daddy dubs parting ways (and Spaceships of course)

And yes other games can be hard to get into but I think one advantage of my small local group is we tend to pick up new games as a group so everyone starts broadly on the same level, Infinity sort got overlooked locally as its main advocate was a system jumper who'd give up once everybody dun git gooded without grasping those cycles tend to repeat


I feel it basically boils down to what you’re looking for.

If you want a game where player skill is the decisive factor? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

If you want a game with super intricate rules which take a week to read and months to learn the practical basis thereof? GW is not, and has never been, what you’re looking for.

Neither of those scenarios, on either side of the equation, are wrong or unreasonable. At all. Horses for Courses, Different Strokes for Different Folks etc.

But what does baffle me is people claiming GW are “failing” because said person enjoys another game, and GW don’t offer a direct analogous experience.
Spoiler:
Similarly, those who demand GW write their rules expressly for Big Wanger Competitive Play.

However. I am not a dick about such things. I’ve been involved with GW for literal decades. A good 75% of my life so far. I also have a complete suite of Rogue Trader era books. And owning said suite of books? Anyone who feels GW’s “oh god, put an Elastoplast here, here, and…erm…..here” approach is new is, I’m afraid, quite wrong.

Should they be better at it by now? Well. Possibly. But….having grown up with wonky shonky “sod it close enough” rules writing? This is old hat to me. To me, it’s almost an intrinsic part of said experience. I’ll tell you one thing it is though. Profitable. With a single WD article or a whole new Codex, what’s “good/passable/crap” can be changed for little cost to GW.

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.
Spoiler:

If you don’t like how they go about it? Well. There are a few options. The two extremes are “hush now and accept this is how the world works” and “well just sell up and walk away”. In between there’s at least “just play the edition you enjoyed the most” and “why not simply house rule it?”. What gets on my wick ar those who hang around, seemingly for the sole purpose of reminding people just how much they don’t enjoy X, and therefore anyone who happens to enjoy X is be default mentally deficient.

Sorry. I whimbrled. Yeah. whimbrled

There is a lot going on with this post but I highlight only these sentences, as I have not seen anyone saying this, but maybe I missed something.
No doubt GW is making money. Success may be another thing, though. I mean, Coca cola makes a lot of money, but isn't sucessful in making its customers healthy. For me, as an ethicist, that does not make it a success. On the contrary, I would argue that the company is a failure, and is indeed sinning. Is GW Coca cola? Not exactly... anyways, this is all tertiary. Point being here that I think that I saw no one holding the position that GW is a failure. I guess that people do opine that GW fails to do some things, e.g. compose coherent rules that last longer than one (prodict cycle) iteration of codices. But, that is not quite the same as saying the GW as a company that wants to make as much money as it can, bar all else, is a "failure" at that...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 13:51:59


   
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Dudeface wrote:

Well, care to point out who those people are, even by their username as to not give a real identity if required? I don't think a sly wink and a "trust me" is enough to validate that statement.




Well, HBMC is one, and if you haven't figured out the other, you don't need to know.



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Well, care to point out who those people are, even by their username as to not give a real identity if required? I don't think a sly wink and a "trust me" is enough to validate that statement.




Well, HBMC is one, and if you haven't figured out the other, you don't need to know.



I mean you could have opened with Mike Brandt who does still post here on occasion but seems reticent to engage with dakka overall.

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.

In any event that still doesn't represent much of GW's current active creative body.
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

Dudeface wrote:

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.


HBMC worked on the 40k RPG (there's a whole thread here on Dakka about the FFG RPG)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441421.page

There are a few of us who worked on Battlefleet Gothic who still occasionally post here as well, but I suspect I'm the most frequent.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.


HBMC worked on the 40k RPG (there's a whole thread here on Dakka about the FFG RPG)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441421.page

There are a few of us who worked on Battlefleet Gothic who still occasionally post here as well, but I suspect I'm the most frequent.


I mean, congratulations to you all, but your original assertion that dakka is important to GWs design studio and current core staff seems to still be a little removed from your own experiences and places in life now.

Again, you've both got great achievements in the case, but the company is 20 years on from back then, the only active core GW staffer I'm aware of on here is Mike. He seems to spend as much time, if not more, being fed up of wading through the trolling and gakposts than actually messaging anything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 15:10:12


 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
And yet, more of 40k's writers and creators have accounts here than anyplace but twitter. I would suggest that Dakka's 'importance' might be greater than you think.
This is the definition of a non-sequitur- for all you know, they have accounts here because they liked the color scheme more than those of the other communities. In any case, out of the company that has had dozens of employees you're talking about what, like foir6 or five max? None of whom have done any actual game design for 40K in at least a decade?

Oh, and, just, fyi, that's what every game company in existence says about their online player base,
They do all say that, because it's true. Online communities are worthless trash for game feedback when it comes to anything that is not objective like bugs. Every instance in history of a game company listening to the whims of their online community and it paying off can be matched by a instance of a game company giving in to the demands of the online community and it backfiring massively. The average person who plays video games is a idiot and does not have the wider scope of information to make informed decisions that the game developers themselves possess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 15:35:26


 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.


HBMC worked on the 40k RPG (there's a whole thread here on Dakka about the FFG RPG)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441421.page

There are a few of us who worked on Battlefleet Gothic who still occasionally post here as well, but I suspect I'm the most frequent.
The 40k RPG is not GW. That's FFG.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:03:17


 
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.


HBMC worked on the 40k RPG (there's a whole thread here on Dakka about the FFG RPG)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441421.page

There are a few of us who worked on Battlefleet Gothic who still occasionally post here as well, but I suspect I'm the most frequent.
The 40k RPG is not GW. That's FFG.


The original point was that they had their names on "40k products", not that they worked for GW. Though technically working for FFG under a GW license is basically the same thing with how strictly GW controls the license.


 
   
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 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.


This is actually a bit of a grey area. While GW wanting to make money is not, in and of itself, a sin, some of their business practices are dubious at best, and *are* a basis for criticism.


This.

Anyone remember the old warhammer battlemagic box set you needed to buy if you wanted to use magic the game? remember when that was phased out? about 2 days before the new rules were to be released, which made battle magic set completely redundant, I saw GW staff pushing those box sets on unsuspecting customers. I saw some grandparents looking to buy it as a present after being pushed towards it be GW staff and I had to step in and tell them in two day thats system goes out the window and it wont be any use any more. GW staff went ape and I told them they were an f'ing disgrace. Certain business practics are unacceptable and this is one of them.

You have other practices as well, like not putting prices on their expensive brushes. Someone picks one up thinking its a couple of quid like the brushes that DO have prices on them, get to the till, find out its twelve quid, and are too embarresed to put it back once its been rung up. F'ing disgrace.

I can tolerate system changes, rule changes, migration to bigger, more expensive models - at the end of the day its a choice you make, but ripping off customers - thats punch in the mouth time.
   
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 Sim-Life wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

I've never seen HBMC allude to being a GW writer or content producer before, but happy for you to correct me if you see this my dude.


HBMC worked on the 40k RPG (there's a whole thread here on Dakka about the FFG RPG)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441421.page

There are a few of us who worked on Battlefleet Gothic who still occasionally post here as well, but I suspect I'm the most frequent.
The 40k RPG is not GW. That's FFG.


The original point was that they had their names on "40k products", not that they worked for GW. Though technically working for FFG under a GW license is basically the same thing with how strictly GW controls the license.
On that first part yeah I thought it was mentioned for "GW writer" so I was rather confused by that allusion, as for the second.. No, no it is not. It would be the same as claiming anyone whose made a videogame for GW equals GW in some capacity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:11:51


 
   
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Stephen1974 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And make absolutely no mistake. GW are a business. In the business of making just as much money as they can. That’s not a sin. That’s just, well, good ol’ capitalism. It shouldn’t be news to anyone. And it’s hardly a basis for criticism.


This is actually a bit of a grey area. While GW wanting to make money is not, in and of itself, a sin, some of their business practices are dubious at best, and *are* a basis for criticism.


This.

Anyone remember the old warhammer battlemagic box set you needed to buy if you wanted to use magic the game? remember when that was phased out? about 2 days before the new rules were to be released, which made battle magic set completely redundant, I saw GW staff pushing those box sets on unsuspecting customers. I saw some grandparents looking to buy it as a present after being pushed towards it be GW staff and I had to step in and tell them in two day thats system goes out the window and it wont be any use any more. GW staff went ape and I told them they were an f'ing disgrace. Certain business practics are unacceptable and this is one of them.

You have other practices as well, like not putting prices on their expensive brushes. Someone picks one up thinking its a couple of quid like the brushes that DO have prices on them, get to the till, find out its twelve quid, and are too embarresed to put it back once its been rung up. F'ing disgrace.

I can tolerate system changes, rule changes, migration to bigger, more expensive models - at the end of the day its a choice you make, but ripping off customers - thats punch in the mouth time.


I remember the ole "hand the customer a box then stand in front of where the box goes" trick. I thought they'd eased off on stuff like that these days though.


 
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
No, no it is not. It would be the same as claiming anyone whose made a videogame for GW equals GW in some capacity.


His point was about how controlling GW is about the IP, that, yes, if you work for anything that GW licenses out, you WILL be micromanaged by GW on anything that touches lore these days. Though, don't worry, I've seen people claiming that Black Library and Forge World creators don't 'really' work for GW either.

Further, the FFG games were originally created by Black Industries, a GW subsidiary like BL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:

I mean, congratulations to you all, but your original assertion that dakka is important to GWs design studio and current core staff seems to still be a little removed from your own experiences and places in life now.


GW goes through guys so fast these days that the idea of 'core staff' is laughable. Effectively you have interns writing the books, outside a few BL stalwarts.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:30:56



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 Sim-Life wrote:
The original point was that they had their names on "40k products", not that they worked for GW. Though technically working for FFG under a GW license is basically the same thing with how strictly GW controls the license.

Actually, the original post was:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
And yet, more of 40k's writers and creators have accounts here than anyplace but twitter. I would suggest that Dakka's 'importance' might be greater than you think.

So, assuming the 40k RPG being discussed is Dark Heresy, that's a 40k product but not Warhammer 40k. Baron's post seemed to anyone without explicit knowledge that HBMC worked for FFG, that they were discussing 40k as a GW employee, not one of a company with the 40k license. Speaking of the license, GW polices any content made by not having it be considered "canon" as an unwritten rule.
We could include ADB and Gav Thorpe but when was the last time they posted on this forum? A year? 3 years? Is any post on the forum counted or should it be posts in discussion sections?
The claim that Dakka has more 40k writers and creators than any other platform barring Twitter is nonsense and there's been absolutely no effort made to support the claim, which coming from Baron is in no way shocking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
GW goes through guys so fast these days that the idea of 'core staff' is laughable. Effectively you have interns writing the books, outside a few BL stalwarts.

Something else you have no proof of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:35:21


 
   
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Selling people the Rulebook for the "current" Edition of Friday with the new one coming out on Saturday (so they are technically right as that was the current Edition by that time) is nothing new is still a thing

same with models that are pushed because they are basically useless or are going to be replaced soon to people who don't know


This also plays into the fact not telling people in advance if something new comes around. Someone starting 40k or AoS not knowing that all the books they buy know are obsolete in 1 month is not very costumer friendly

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 Gert wrote:

Speaking of the license, GW polices any content made by not having it be considered "canon" as an unwritten rule.


FFG was actually an exception to that, since GW in the person of AM expressly stated that the FFG RPGs were canon. But, since you'll white knight GW on practically anything, bothering to engage you on this is pointless.

I notice that the people who bitched that the survey was no good are currently grasping at straws in an effort to 'prove' the inferiority Dakka without actually addressing the other survey I posted above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Every instance in history of a game company listening to the whims of their online community and it paying off can be matched by a instance of a game company giving in to the demands of the online community and it backfiring massively. The average person who plays video games is a idiot and does not have the wider scope of information to make informed decisions that the game developers themselves possess.


Conversely, I can show you an example of a game that was burned down by it's own players when the company ignored their demands for every one that kept going unbothered.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:45:26



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 BaronIveagh wrote:

FFG was actually an exception to that, since GW in the person of AM expressly stated that the FFG RPGs were canon.

Firstly, who is AM?
Secondly, do you have proof of this? You're just making more statements that you haven't actually been able to back up. If this person said it was canon at the time, what makes it canon now when it's no longer sold? Are they still with the company?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:48:04


 
   
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 Gert wrote:

Firstly, who is AM?


Alan Merritt. You know, the guy who was in charge of canon for warhammer and warhammer 40k?

 Gert wrote:

If this person said it was canon at the time, what makes it canon now when it's no longer sold?


It hasn't been contradicted, and GW has added references it to current codecies. But, since you're winding up to argue that nothing out of print is canon, I'll point out that it's not unknown for currently in use codecies to be out of print. Or, do you think that when the webstore stops selling it, it magically leaves canon? Boy, SoB must have really perplexed you before the new release.

And, you guys are still evading my point. Stop blowing smoke.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 18:03:11



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