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First of all, lets get the rant over with. The queue, just to get to the Forgeworld stand were you can 'aledgely' get your models, was about 40 to 60 mins long. Then, after queuing... "I'd like x2 Shadowswords", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "Its ok, there's other models I'm after, x2 Stormblades please", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "Erm, x2 Macharius Vanquishers ?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "x2 Macharius with Vulcan Bolters?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "Show special Chaos Renagade Orgryn?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "Show Special Ork Commander?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "Thunderbolt Pilot?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "If you've no plastic / resign Shadowsword / Sotmblades, have you any full resign ones, I've an Appocayspe Tournament comming up, I need some super heavies?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this", "What about a couple of Vultures?", "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this".

Basically, after driving 300 miles to get the models I need for a tournament, out of the 8 I came to buy, all 8 are "Sorry, we're out of stock, there's a 5 week minimum wait for this". What is the point of an open day when you have nothing to sell? After asking, Forgeworld have as of Friday 4th, 216 products out of stock with a minimum 5 week wait. So if you're odering anything, don't expect it anytime. However, they are more than happy to take your money, even though they've no models to give you. After complaining to Tony Cotrell (top dog at Forgeworld), the main reason for holding the day is to be able to talk to the designers, thats why there is no queue to talk to the designers, and a 50 minute one to buy stuff.

"Can I order the models now, and pick them up at SALUTE next week? (SALUTE - UK's biggest Wargames Exhibition), "Err, no, any stock we do have, we'll be taking to Games Day France on the same weekend, and that will be limited stock". So if you want to buy at GW France day, or SALUTE in London, don't bother, they won't have any.

Onto the Rumours :
1. I've posted the other stuff up I do have pics of, in other topics. The Revar is £550, and there will be different varients in the future with different weapon mounts. x2 new books I've posted, and the concept vehicles.
2. Necrons. Somebody asked me to ask, so I did, much laughter was the answer. Basically, the army doesn't sell as much as Imperial ones, so all the effort is being spent on them.
3. Orks. Confirmed is the Plastic Battlewagon for this year, Forgeworld are currently making some conversion kits for it, no hint of a release though.
4. Chaos. There will be more Chaos stuff early next year, and this year will concentrate on Chaos Renagades.
5. Plastic Valk etc - Total denial. Although they've said GW are looking at most of the Forgeworld range to see what can be done in plastic, and took on someone full time to do just that, 'early concept plastic tooling'.
6. DKK - Specific conversion kits for all the super heavy plastic / resin tanks.

All in all, a total waste of a Sunday !

Yeah, that sucks man. What's worse is that after you DO get your stuff, you can expect to wait another month for replacements if any parts are less than perfect.

So, what can we expect them to have for the US Games Days? Maybe smaller items are easier or faster to get than large, completely resin models?

What a joke! These chuckleheads need to start seeing their service as a business, and run it as one instead of gamer billy bob's emporium out of his garage. There's obviously enough demand there for the models, why not increase staff/how the models are produced to be able to meet that demand? I guess it's too much to ask for some intelligence!

I did ask about the staff issue, They saidd they couldn't make the stuff fast enough and rather than hire new staff, they could maintain the same level of production, and just increase the price.

Well it does make sense. Ever since GW's been raising its prices every other year, it's almost silly NOT to go with forgeworld. Most man-sized figures and bitspacks are only slightly more expensive than GW's (or BWB) prices.

The only thing FW has that's massively more expensive than GW are the good ol' tank turrets, giant creatuers, and giant vehicles. Oh and Krieg/Elysians cuz you guys are suckers and enjoy paying $1/point for IG troops.

sounds like someone is in the wrong hobby.

I don't mind paying slightly more for my FW kits. I love the detailed models I get for my extra money.

I do however agree with the the secret squig. The new models should've been available on the day, rather that a 5 week wait.

I've been waiting around 2 months to get some renegade militia arms, its p crap tbh especially since they charged me two months ago

That sounds like an awful experience. Sorry to hear about it.

FW is losing ALL credibility with me.
1.Poorly cast figs.
2.Delays in production.
3.Apathy.

When you see what Ultraforge can do (A 2-person Outfit) makes FW look like A-hats.

Heh. When I paid 40 pounds UK for fastest shipping type and recieved my items two months later, I asked for a refund on the shipping - nothing else, just the shipping.

There exact words were:

"No, we don't owe you anything."

Nice bunch.

BYE

that's why credit card companes have a mechanism for just these types of business practices.

it's called "Dispute the Charges".

the issue probably stems from the fact that pre apocalypse forgeworld operated as a rather successful garage type outfit, but ever since apoc started plugging the hell out of them their business has skyrocketed and they don't have the infrastructure to cope with the new demand.

Either they should lower their prices or fix the damn problem. Also they should integrate some kind of decent quality control. Many companies use resin miniatures and have little to no defects but FW have always used the line that oh well it happens so deal with it. They get away with this because they are a subsidiary of GW and there stuff is a sexy addition to a very popular game, so people tolerate it. If you had a regular garage company trying to operate with the amount of defects they produce it would go out of business.

TheSecretSquig wrote:I did ask about the staff issue, They saidd they couldn't make the stuff fast enough and rather than hire new staff, they could maintain the same level of production, and just increase the price.

Maybe I'm dense as hell, but business wise raising the price even more makes no sense. Unless it is to somehow lower demand for the product they make? Is that how this crazy mode of thinking is supposed to work?

If they had half a brain over at FW they'd either cease offering the faster shipping for the duration of these delays, or be nice and say 'Sorry, but due to the delays we're a bit behind - but all shipping on orders 50 pounds or more (or 100, or whatever) will be shipped anywhere in the world free of charge!'.

BYE

2 months is fast? lol jeeze. I'd reverse all the charges and laugh.

As far as I understand it, you are not allowed to take money for an item unless you have it in stock. So FW are well out of order and breaking the law if they are taking your money and then making you wait for 'x' amount of weeks for your goods. Could be worth giving trading standards a call.

got em today, finally, now I can actually keep building my army

Normally I'd be irked at someone starting 8 different threads on one event but after your tale of woe I think you earned it

Now is it the case they had NOTHING to sell or just that they were out of everything you wanted.

Wolfstan wrote:As far as I understand it, you are not allowed to take money for an item unless you have it in stock. So FW are well out of order and breaking the law if they are taking your money and then making you wait for 'x' amount of weeks for your goods. Could be worth giving trading standards a call.

There is certainly no law compelling a retailer to hold stock of what they sell.

When a customer asks for an item that is legally an "invitation to treat", not a contract. The seller then makes an offer of a contract along the lines of "Give me £30 now and in 5 weeks I will send you the item". It is up to the customer whether to accept the contract or not.

VermGho5t wrote:

TheSecretSquig wrote:I did ask about the staff issue, They saidd they couldn't make the stuff fast enough and rather than hire new staff, they could maintain the same level of production, and just increase the price.

Maybe I'm dense as hell, but business wise raising the price even more makes no sense. Unless it is to somehow lower demand for the product they make? Is that how this crazy mode of thinking is supposed to work?

Let's say you sell tanks at £50 and you have 100 customers but can only make 50 tanks. If you make the price of tanks £75 it is possible that half your customers will go away, but you will still sell 50 tanks and make an extra £1,250 profit.

This is to do with price elasticity of demand which is part of economics.

Now you know why economics is called the dismal science.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:As far as I understand it, you are not allowed to take money for an item unless you have it in stock. So FW are well out of order and breaking the law if they are taking your money and then making you wait for 'x' amount of weeks for your goods. Could be worth giving trading standards a call.

There is certainly no law compelling a retailer to hold stock of what they sell.

When a customer asks for an item that is legally an "invitation to treat", not a contract. The seller then makes an offer of a contract along the lines of "Give me £30 now and in 5 weeks I will send you the item". It is up to the customer whether to accept the contract or not.

Laws may vary between UK and US. IIRC a US vendor cannot charge you until the product ships.

stonefox wrote:Yeah, that sucks man. What's worse is that after you DO get your stuff, you can expect to wait another month for replacements if any parts are less than perfect.

So, what can we expect them to have for the US Games Days? Maybe smaller items are easier or faster to get than large, completely resin models?

3 months later, my latest dread is still missing legs to replace the miscast ones he came with. A very sad dread, indeed.

Waiting for GD Baltimore pre-orders to start up, I know there are a few things I want and a lot of things certain of my friends want to pick up ...

- Salvage

Kid_Kyoto wrote:... ... ...

Laws may vary between UK and US. IIRC a US vendor cannot charge you until the product ships.

My study was in UK contract law.

Surprisingly the US law refers to cases from pre-revolutionary times so some of the core is the same in both countries.

KK is right. Here in the US, if you have an item on Backorder, you don't charge the person until the order is ready to ship. I don't think its a Law thing, I'm pretty sure the rules are set by the credit card companies. If you charge a credit card, you have to ship within 24 hours.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Not sure on the Law, but Forgeworld were more than happy to take anyones money for items they didn't have in stock.

I just don't see the point of hosting an 'open day', when you have your top 216 products out of stock. I wasted an entire day for nothing, not to mention the cost of a tank of Petrol £50 in the UK, $100 in the US (Yes my US friends, Good Old Gas is that expensive in the UK). If they had advertised their open day online and left the message telling you that they were out of stock of all these items, I could have made better use of a fine day.

Forgeworld have lost so much credability in my eyes for their total lack of planning and non-existant customer relations."Hey it doesn't matter who we off, we're Forgeworld, and there will always be someone else to sell our models too".

They did have stock over in the warehouse, but its stock thats come in, and been put aside for peoples web orders. "Why can't we have that?" I ask, "Because our web sales & France GW day take priority over the open day and SALUTE" is the reply (SALUTE - UK's biggest wargames convention held next weekend, same day as GW France day), "Well, if I had a friend who phoned me up, and said, put a beer aside for me, and a friend who came round for a beer, I'd give the beer to the one who came to see me" I enquire, "If someone was to offer me more money for the item, then I'd sell it to them first, not the person who ordered first" responds Tony Cotterell, "Well here's an extra £1 for the items" I say, holding up £1, the response is a shrugged shoulders, laugh at me, and walk off.

MY point is, If Forgeworld know they have stock problems, they should not be taking orders for items they don't have, and should take them off line, until they have built up sufficient stock, and they certaintly should not be advertising and running and attending events, when they don't have the stock to sell you. I wasted an entire day and £50's worth of fuel for nothing.

TheSecretSquig wrote:Not sure on the Law, but Forgeworld were more than happy to take anyones money for items they didn't have in stock.

I just don't see the point of hosting an 'open day', when you have your top 216 products out of stock. I wasted an entire day for nothing, not to mention the cost of a tank of Petrol £50 in the UK, $100 in the US (Yes my US friends, Good Old Gas is that expensive in the UK). If they had advertised their open day online and left the message telling you that they were out of stock of all these items, I could have made better use of a fine day.

Forgeworld have lost so much credability in my eyes for their total lack of planning and non-existant customer relations."Hey it doesn't matter who we off, we're Forgeworld, and there will always be someone else to sell our models too".

They did have stock over in the warehouse, but its stock thats come in, and been put aside for peoples web orders. "Why can't we have that?" I ask, "Because our web sales & France GW day take priority over the open day and SALUTE" is the reply (SALUTE - UK's biggest wargames convention held next weekend, same day as GW France day), "Well, if I had a friend who phoned me up, and said, put a beer aside for me, and a friend who came round for a beer, I'd give the beer to the one who came to see me" I enquire, "If someone was to offer me more money for the item, then I'd sell it to them first, not the person who ordered first" responds Tony Cotterell, "Well here's an extra £1 for the items" I say, holding up £1, the response is a shrugged shoulders, laugh at me, and walk off.

MY point is, If Forgeworld know they have stock problems, they should not be taking orders for items they don't have, and should take them off line, until they have built up sufficient stock, and they certaintly should not be advertising and running and attending events, when they don't have the stock to sell you. I wasted an entire day and £50's worth of fuel for nothing.

On the other hand, when FW first advertised the Open Day, they accepted pre-orders for stuff. You never know, perhaps going that route might have been more fruitful.

I also think perhaps that plenty of other people attending the event including myself, didn't go just to buy FW kits at the last minute, but also to have an amble round WW, see the forthcoming models, speak to the very chatty and friendly designers, perhaps take part in or watch a cool demo game and generally mingle with other gamers.

Admittedly, if the sole purpose of your day was to buy kits, then you did indeed have a poor return, but then you also set yourself narrow expectations.

I do however agree on one point, FW really need to improve their sales stalls at events and get some resin casters working overtime. When I left at 2.30pm, the queue was still at least 20 people long

TheSecretSquig wrote:After asking, Forgeworld have as of Friday 4th, 216 products out of stock with a minimum 5 week wait.

Thats a VERY significant portion of their catalog.

They should have called it "FWs sell-crap-no-one-buys day".

Hideously disappointing. Much like my first (and last) games day. Just not worth the effort.

Funny I had a friend come back from it with everything I wanted.... maybe it was just a case of the early bird catching the worms? Heck he did come back with a heck of a lot of stuff

Bignutter wrote:Funny I had a friend come back from it with everything I wanted.... maybe it was just a case of the early bird catching the worms? Heck he did come back with a heck of a lot of stuff

HE was the reason they where out of stock!