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mmimzie wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
So going by how they worded the Tyranid FAQ to disinclude GSC units, I'd say (if they are going to FAQ it) they'll restrict it to none Heretic Astartes units. That would still mean that Daemon Lords would still get to make use of the stratagem though, I want to believe this makes Mr.Angry's 888pt price tag worth it.

yeah i do abit hope that'd do that. It's alittle lame to have your armies thing overly hi-jacked. I think the daemons book is some where up there in competive land from all the math hammer i've been doing, but seems CSM could jsut take all the good stuff, and give nothing back in return. which is abit lame.

"Take what you can, and give nothing back!"

What I meant to say was that. Wasn't that how Imperium Soup has always been played? You get the best of sisters in Celestine, throw in IG, and Robute Gulliman or whatever is your favourite SM faction, and you still get to use all the strategems and units happily.

Yes and no.

Yes you combine the armies and get to get great things for both.

however in this case it's abit more like you're robbing them of what makes them neat. For instance imperial guard as they are now can use thier own stratagems and relics on thier own character, but the space marine units can't use most or almost any of them. instead the space marines ahve to use thier own stuff. Where as the daemons as we sort of know them now you can basicly just take the best CSM list you have right now, space in some cost nothing daemons units, and take advantage of stratagems, and relics if you are willing to sacrifice your warlord.

So it's pretty different as in your example the IG stuff are the only ones who can use the IG stratagems, and the space marine stuff is the only ones that can use the space marine stratagems.

Why do you want to take stuff from the IG codex if you're a SM player, when you already are able to use BAs, DAs, then take stuff from the SM's codex? IMO, there's nothing wrong with CSM taking stuff from Daemon's dex, given that's exactly how CSM operates in the lore anyway.

 andysonic1 wrote:

14) "Every top tier army has to use CP to do their thing." "Daemons are CP starved, so focus in on one or two tactics, don't go in trying to do everything". "Blow all your CP first turn, you hit way harder than other armies".

How do they figure demons are CP starved? Seems like they fill up detachments pretty easily.

snottlebocket wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

14) "Every top tier army has to use CP to do their thing." "Daemons are CP starved, so focus in on one or two tactics, don't go in trying to do everything". "Blow all your CP first turn, you hit way harder than other armies".

How do they figure demons are CP starved? Seems like they fill up detachments pretty easily.

No way of regenerating them and most players will be blowing 5+ at least on deep striking.

I think demons will be fine cp wise. A demon player can easily fill out 2 +3 cp detachments with leftover points for heavy hitters. That’s 9 cp. it’s not guard level but it’s pretty good when you consider demons are going to want to be up close and personal asap, most demon games will be over one way or another by turn 3 as you’ll either survive their demon bombs or not

 matt123456790 wrote:

snottlebocket wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

14) "Every top tier army has to use CP to do their thing." "Daemons are CP starved, so focus in on one or two tactics, don't go in trying to do everything". "Blow all your CP first turn, you hit way harder than other armies".

How do they figure demons are CP starved? Seems like they fill up detachments pretty easily.

No way of regenerating them and most players will be blowing 5+ at least on deep striking.

That hardly sounds like starved. I never bother trying to regenerate CP's since I usually barely use half my stack.

snottlebocket wrote:

 matt123456790 wrote:

snottlebocket wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

14) "Every top tier army has to use CP to do their thing." "Daemons are CP starved, so focus in on one or two tactics, don't go in trying to do everything". "Blow all your CP first turn, you hit way harder than other armies".

How do they figure demons are CP starved? Seems like they fill up detachments pretty easily.

No way of regenerating them and most players will be blowing 5+ at least on deep striking.

That hardly sounds like starved. I never bother trying to regenerate CP's since I usually barely use half my stack.

I'm not arguing they are starved. That's just how they figured as much, they said so specifically in the video, talking about imperial cp regeneration and blowing all your CPs at the start.

is it anything that prevent FECULENT GNARLMAWS to be summoned using DAEMONIC RITUAL?Sounds to me S a very good thing.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
I was thinking you could wrangle possessed into a daemons deatchment to keep it BF, but on inspection there is a daemons faction KW to keep locis and unlock strats

Funny story, Death Guard possessed are Faction daemon.

I mean its definitely a typo..

If it was a typo it would have been FAQ'd already.

Nora wrote:
is it anything that prevent FECULENT GNARLMAWS to be summoned using DAEMONIC RITUAL?Sounds to me S a very good thing.

They don't have the rule on thier datasheet.

I think the denizens of the warp stratagem will work on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stretching them across objectives your your opponent is near would be quite trolly.

1st in 1250 pts 15ppl rtt(doesn't get much better where I live)
Dp skulreaver(soooo good)
2x 20 letters icon instrument(soooo good)

2 tz heralds
2x 12 brims
30 pinks(soooo good)

2 nr heralds
3x 3 nurglings(sooooo good)

Kinda crushed everyone. Tabled almost everyone. Pinks kill screen. Never die. Letters tie everything up. Gg
Nurglings get pts for recon and behind enemy lines

Deepstrike everything for 8-9cp. That's all you need. Fought 2x with khorne once

Tz herald warlord buffs pinks 3 times = dead anything


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Last game rolled 1 on morale and got 6 bloodletters back, who surrounded the model I was in combat with so they couldn't run away. That was really cool

u have 2 battalion for +6 cp, so 9 cp total if you spend 8-9 to ds you dont have any cp left for double strike with Korne.

Didn't deepstrike khorne DP one game Then I had 3 CPs

 whembly wrote:
So... the new Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage... with armour of scorn...

With the DS strategem...

Dude.

With the "Deathbringer" (Each unmodified hit roll of 6 made for this model in the Fight phase scores 2 hits instead of 1) + Unstoppable Ferocity + new weapon mode "Sweeping Blow":

Number of attacks = 14 (unwounded thirster).

Any natural 6s is auto 2-hits.

I would agree with you but incessant rage is the worst BT strictly due to the degrade he has, he loses attacks AND WS
Really hurt his damage..

The degrade is way less of an issue when you can reliably deliver him via DS.. An average of 14 hits wounding gribblies on 2+/3+ is pretty sexy.

So what's the exact restriction on the DS? Meaning the "Daemon" part, like does it have to be from that codex, or can you ally in something from the CSM book and DS it as long is it has the Daemon keyword?

 Kizuke21 wrote:
So what's the exact restriction on the DS? Meaning the "Daemon" part, like does it have to be from that codex, or can you ally in something from the CSM book and DS it as long is it has the Daemon keyword?

Only restriction is that it must be a Daemon unit.

So I've got this idea of comboing deep striking Heralds of Khorne and Warp Talons.

Talons have a problem with making that charge roll, the Herald fixes that.
Heralds have a problem with overwatch, Talons fix that.

Everyone gets +1S from the locus.

Seems like an annoying bit of fun to deal with.

 dan2026 wrote:
So I've got this idea of comboing deep striking Heralds of Khorne and Warp Talons.

Talons have a problem with making that charge roll, the Herald fixes that.
Heralds have a problem with overwatch, Talons fix that.

Everyone gets +1S from the locus.

Seems like an annoying bit of fun to deal with.

Hmmm, not sure how the herald is supposed to fix Talons making the charge roll... If you mean the reroll charge thingy, Warp Talons can bring an icon of wrath, and that allows you to recharge. Heralds just add +1 str. But yes, Talons do fix the overwatch. Actually though, I think using a Blood Throne might be a good way to handle the overwatch problem.

A Blood throne is T7, 7 wounds. Imagine the typical bubble wrap of imperical guard or cultists, etc. Any shooting is probably str 3. So, you overwatch and hit on a 6, and then after that you wound the T7 Blood Throne on a 6 again. that 1 out of 36 chance of getting a wound on a Blood Throne charging in, and you then get your 5++ save. Plus, the blood throne is a herald character, so you can give your aura +1 str to khorne daemons nearby, and your locus to recharge.

So, charge into a bubblewrap, absorb the overwatch on your blood throne, then have your other daemon units follow with the charge. You can do that by staying purely within Daemons, and don't even need to use Warp Talons.

The Heralds Locus of Rage allows them to reroll charge range.

Also Warp Talons cannot bring an icon.

 dan2026 wrote:
The Heralds Locus of Rage allows them to reroll charge range.

Also Warp Talons cannot bring an icon.

Ah, my mistake, I always thought they could. Anyway, they are too expensive if you are just going to use them to charge into fodder. If you bring warp talons, you should bring a sorceror with warptime, then you can move them 12 inches closer, and then your charge will get them behind the bubble wrap to the units that you really want to hit.

No worries I am just trying to think up interesting combos.

A lot of exictement around letters and pink horrors - any thoughts on plaguebearers outside of a mono nurgle list?

Poxbringer brings them to 5 str but really I see them as a fairly solid tarpit (4 toughness, -1 to hit over 20 - possible -2 to hit [miasma], standard daemon save (1/3 all wounds saved), and a 5+++ FNP).

Worth it as objective sitters? The 5++ and 5+++ and higher toughness seems borderline worth it over brims.

orkswubwub wrote:
A lot of exictement around letters and pink horrors - any thoughts on plaguebearers outside of a mono nurgle list?

Poxbringer brings them to 5 str but really I see them as a fairly solid tarpit (4 toughness, -1 to hit over 20 - possible -2 to hit [miasma], standard daemon save (1/3 all wounds saved), and a 5+++ FNP).

Worth it as objective sitters? The 5++ and 5+++ and higher toughness seems borderline worth it over brims.

plaguebearers in my opinion are mono nurgle only. You want the tree to buff your guys which is more investment. then you need all the character support to have them do decent damage and to give them the durability they need to actualy make it into combat before they get sshot up. Nurglings and the GUO are the splashables. the GUO can deep strike and miasma himself keeping him rather safe from getting aced if you don't go first. Hes got a repectible weapon load out of bile sword and plague flail, and when he drops down he can throw our shrivel pox to aid horrors and blood letters in dealing with various targets. While nurglings scout to prevent deep strikes, and keep your deep strike zone safe clear, and are cheap and tough battleline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VMPL wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

Why do you want to take stuff from the IG codex if you're a SM player, when you already are able to use BAs, DAs, then take stuff from the SM's codex? IMO, there's nothing wrong with CSM taking stuff from Daemon's dex, given that's exactly how CSM operates in the lore anyway.

This is a poor arguement. 15 or 16 of thier stratagems are shared.

chapter master, death to the traitor, and tremor shells are the only stratagems you get for your BA, DA armies from SM codex.... that's nothing and near useless.

CSM all the daemons double thier stratagems taking stuff that is completely unique from daemons and drawing stuff from space marines. That's just ridiculous.

Anyone changing up their daemon princes? Or are dual Talons still on top? Skullreaver axe looks pretty mean

skullreaver is a great alternative to double talons.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Nora wrote:
is it anything that prevent FECULENT GNARLMAWS to be summoned using DAEMONIC RITUAL?Sounds to me S a very good thing.

They don't have the rule on thier datasheet.

I think the denizens of the warp stratagem will work on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stretching them across objectives your your opponent is near would be quite trolly.

Hmm. Landing a bunch of Obliterators with them and a Herald, dropping in some Mutilators who’ll be allowed to Advance and Charge next turn, maybe a drop Pod with a Possessed unit or put Miasma on a PB line... interesting.

Hey,

I've seem a few people here and on other threads saying Screamers are good now, but I just don't get it. They are expensive, relatively easy to kill, ok in combat (good attacks but only 3 at 4+ to hit) and no easy access to to-hit bonuses. Sure they are reasonably fast, but now we have both deep striking and summoning to bring units in, that's not a bid deal.

So am I missing something?

So, having just jumped into the Daemons bandwagon, Instruments and Banners: auto include on 20+? Is an Insrument a good investment on a 10 man unit?

Not sure how to go about assembling the box... I have 20 so far. 2 and 2, One with banner and instrument, one without... Should I just assemble them with and only play them as equipped when I combine the unit? Just trying to feel my options.

It really depends on the unit I guess. DS Horrors don't really benefit enough to waste points on them. DS Bloodletters, on the other hand, really benefit from dropping 10pts on them. Just my 2c.

Yea, forgot to mention I was talking about (2 boxes of) Plague Bearers. More than likely, they camp or screen, so Instrument or Banners aren't necessary. But if I combine them into a single 20 unit, I just don't know how I want to build the kit!