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I think people forget how diverse the range was before they introduced the current Gaunt master design and turned in into everything else, but just in different sizes. The fact that you have been subjected to buy the same stagnant kits designs for 20 odd years does not help.

I totally respect people liking, or not, the minis, it's personal. But you really cant fault when Art direction follows what the script is and always has been.

Dudeface wrote:

The rippers look like small raveners,

No they don't. Rippers have a giant mouth and tiny limbs. Raveners have large limbs and warrior like heads and "normal" sized mouths.

That's not by mistake. The hivemind could have made something that swam instead of burrowed, it could have had then scuttling with long tails, it doesn't. You're both right in that the hive mind will adapt and try new stuff to fit new circumstances, but the models represent what they look like at their most common in my eyes.

The vores stand out because if the optimal method for bracing yourself on almost all ground surfaces is 6 digging talons, then I'd expect all ranged bioforms with recoil to behave the same way with the same design because the hive mind will spawn them that way uniformly as much as it can.

They aren't the first Tyranid critters to move around on talons. Hieropohant moves on talons, the Tyrannofix which has the largest Tyranid gun outside of bio-titans also has 2 talons for movement. And of course the recent Psychophage.

They just don't fit at present with the current aesthetic, even the heads aren't overly tyrnaid like, they resemble a beetle more than a classic nid head.

No they don't. Beetle heads have side facing eyes. Vores like most nids have forward facing eyes. Vores also have the head plating and side holes that are common to most Tyranids and lastly also have vertebrate jaws with fangs, like most Tyranids.

The only thing that kinda looks "beetle-ish" is the chelicerae* like appendages, but they aren't the only tyranids with extra appendages around the jaws.

*Which are arachnid jaws, beetles do not have that kind of jaws.

 Tyran wrote:

No they don't. Rippers have a giant mouth and tiny limbs. Raveners have large limbs and warrior like heads and "normal" sized mouths.

almost like they larger and their limbs grew out with them? Come on.

They aren't the first Tyranid critters to move around on talons. Hieropohant moves on talons, the Tyrannofix which has the largest Tyranid gun outside of bio-titans also has 2 talons for movement. And of course the recent Psychophage.

The tyrannofex has legs with hooves for the rear appendages, the hierophant is correct but has otherwise stood alone.

No they don't. Beetle heads have side facing eyes. Vores like most nids have forward facing eyes. Vores also have the head plating and side holes that are common to most Tyranids and lastly also have vertebrate jaws with fangs, like most Tyranids.

The only thing that kinda looks "beetle-ish" is the chelicerae* like appendages, but they aren't the only tyranids with extra appendages around the jaws.

*Which are arachnid jaws, beetles do not have that kind of jaws.

I had to go back and look at the close ups of the head but you're right, they are front facing eyes (although it doesn't look like it can look straight forwards due to the head movement being limited) I didn't notice the normal toothy mouth at first either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think people forget how diverse the range was before they introduced the current Gaunt master design and turned in into everything else, but just in different sizes. The fact that you have been subjected to buy the same stagnant kits designs for 20 odd years does not help.

I totally respect people liking, or not, the minis, it's personal. But you really cant fault when Art direction follows what the script is and always has been.

I started in 3rd so that homogenised design is mostly what I know, which is 20 years of design history at this point. I understand what you're saying but to a lot of people this is what nids are/look like. I really like the vores but they just stand out as being the most... different in the range.

Well. GW is certainly happy to have players decide new models are must just for sake of change. Get to sell same models twice

So either GW trolling or there is something more for us, maybe next year?

Naw that's just the standard GW community answer. That said considering Tyranids are the big focus I could expect that they have got models lined up for expansion books later in 10th edition. Heck there might even be a special character style model if they do another Partworks magazine release which seems to have become a standard thing for GW to do right now.

So I'd expect another Marines VS Tyranids book which might splice some Genestealer Cultist models in on the Tyranid side.

Yeah im thinking the Red terror might pop up next year as part of a campaign series. The Necrons got flayed ones and a Cronomancer [?] with a killteam set - could give an option for something for Nids although I'm not sure Shrikes would fit into Kilteam. Interesting that the release is Vanguard swarm focused- only the beginning of the invasion....

 Overread wrote:
Naw that's just the standard GW community answer. That said considering Tyranids are the big focus I could expect that they have got models lined up for expansion books later in 10th edition. Heck there might even be a special character style model if they do another Partworks magazine release which seems to have become a standard thing for GW to do right now.

So I'd expect another Marines VS Tyranids book which might splice some Genestealer Cultist models in on the Tyranid side.

I wouldn't expect another release wave later in 10th as Necrons also didn't get anything else during 9th. The only exceptions is the Kill Team stuff (which includes the Chronomancer, Flayed Ones at the start and the Hierotek Circle later in the edition) but since Genestealers are already rumored to be for Kill Team there also won't be anything else from this direction. Death Guard in 8th wasn't released all at once but over a period of 6 months but that was also only at the beginning of the edition with nothing else later.

The new partworks magazine will very likely have another new model like all the other but again like the others this will very likely be a Marines model

Of course Genestealer Cults is a completely different case as they count as their own faction

Just reading the article on the Termagants from the reveal show. Noticed this….

Warhammer Community wrote: They fight in great hordes armed with symbiotic bio-weapons, each a horrendous amalgam of organic function and living weapon. The full Termagant kit includes a wide range of weapons – fleshborerers, spinefists, devourers, shard-launchers, stranglewebs, and spike rifles. Now that’s a wargear selection we haven’t seen for many, many years.*

What the heck are shardlaunchers??

Wait I’m being an idiot. It’s the shoulder mounted weapon first seen on Barbgaunts. And it’s in the photo.

Derp

Dudeface wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think people forget how diverse the range was before they introduced the current Gaunt master design and turned in into everything else, but just in different sizes. The fact that you have been subjected to buy the same stagnant kits designs for 20 odd years does not help.

I totally respect people liking, or not, the minis, it's personal. But you really cant fault when Art direction follows what the script is and always has been.

I started in 3rd so that homogenised design is mostly what I know, which is 20 years of design history at this point. I understand what you're saying but to a lot of people this is what nids are/look like. I really like the vores but they just stand out as being the most... different in the range.

I know and at a personal level its all good, at the end of the day we all have different experiences.
When folks say that biovores design is not Tyranid is like saying Tyranid Lore is not Tyranid. We could actually argue that 20 years with the same design actually is what is not very Tyranidy.
Either way biodiversity is as Tyranid as it gets and after these new releases no one can say they went full guns blazing and changed all designs to something else.
We have a mixture of slight design updates and we also have some nice new features and added organisms, the focus on neuro variants and vanguards etc.
Win win for everyone to some extent.

Im not expecting more new kits anytime soon, the list of what we actually got is surprisingly LARGE!

With these updates, do Tyranids have any models that are not plastic anymore?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
With these updates, do Tyranids have any models that are not plastic anymore?

Not outside of FW I don't think. The only big question mark remaining is shrikes.

Just the Red Terror, which in a sense is redundant with the advent of the Mawloc

Dudeface wrote:
The tyrannofex has legs with hooves for the rear appendages

Which, by the way, is hilariously stupid for anyone who ever saw a real horse. Hooves can't take big hits, they easily split if subjected to too much pressure (like your nail splitting lengthwise, except way worse and more painful) which makes the horse unable to walk, and quickly ends in death even if there are no predators around (because then horse puts its weight on the other 3 limbs, overloading them in turn and causing issues in those). It's more obscure than a horse breaking leg, but it can be just as bad. There is a reason why people invented iron horseshoes (to spread the weight on the whole hoof and protect the vulnerable bottom), figuring out how to nail them on was dangerous both to animal and people trying to do so, but the alternative was much worse.

Dudeface wrote:
The vores stand out because if the optimal method for bracing yourself on almost all ground surfaces is 6 digging talons, then I'd expect all ranged bioforms with recoil to behave the same way with the same design because the hive mind will spawn them that way uniformly as much as it can.

Why?

This is serious question, we don't do that, why should Tyranids do it?

First counterexample, our artillery deploys massive braces before firing. See the first photo here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAESAR_self-propelled_howitzer

By your logic, tanks, IFVs and tank destroyers should do it too, being also 'ranged vehicleform'. Guess what, they don't. They also move on tracks, unlike wheeled artillery I linked. Why, can't they do the same method of propulsion? Or another example, two French light tanks, one designed for speed, the other for armor, why can't a single army keep the same propulsion method, don't they know diversity in single faction looks bad?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The tyrannofex has legs with hooves for the rear appendages

Which, by the way, is hilariously stupid for anyone who ever saw a real horse. Hooves can't take big hits, they easily split if subjected to too much pressure (like your nail splitting lengthwise, except way worse and more painful) which makes the horse unable to walk, and quickly ends in death even if there are no predators around (because then horse puts its weight on the other 3 limbs, overloading them in turn and causing issues in those). It's more obscure than a horse breaking leg, but it can be just as bad. There is a reason why people invented iron horseshoes (to spread the weight on the whole hoof and protect the vulnerable bottom), figuring out how to nail them on was dangerous both to animal and people trying to do so, but the alternative was much worse.

Dudeface wrote:
The vores stand out because if the optimal method for bracing yourself on almost all ground surfaces is 6 digging talons, then I'd expect all ranged bioforms with recoil to behave the same way with the same design because the hive mind will spawn them that way uniformly as much as it can.

Why?

This is serious question, we don't do that, why should Tyranids do it?

First counterexample, our artillery deploys massive braces before firing. See the first photo here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAESAR_self-propelled_howitzer

By your logic, tanks, IFVs and tank destroyers should do it too, being also 'ranged vehicleform'. Guess what, they don't. They also move on tracks, unlike wheeled artillery I linked. Why, can't they do the same method of propulsion? Or another example, two French light tanks, one designed for speed, the other for armor, why can't a single army keep the same propulsion method, don't they know diversity in single faction looks bad?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30

I'm not a military expert but aren't the towed artillery both because they're A cheaper, B. easier to move and C. meant for behind the lines whereas the tanks are intended for spearheading and infantry support by overall design? So the method of locomotion is not comparable as they're for totally different purposes.

An Exocrine, Biovore and Hive guard are all forms of ranged fire support. All of them need to brace for relative levels of recoil. If there is a superior chosen method of allowing them to fulfil their primary purpose of back line ranged fire support, why wouldn't they share the "better" design feature?

Explain to me why you'd consider the bracing method of a biovore to be different to the exocrine, what reason do they have for being divergent and without one being superior.

Oddly by saying "humans don't do it that way, why would an alien hive mind" probably isn't a good reinforcement of your point.

Surely that all depends on how the guns work?

Whilst we might feel a need to brace after a particularly violent curry and night on the pop, even the gustiest of blanket rippers is in no actual danger of sending us skiting out of bed.

Tyranid ranged weapons use a variety of ways to propel their vile ammunitions. Spinefists for example hook into the bearer’s airways, using air pressure to launch the spines. A Deathspitter uses a chemical reaction. Fleshborers a bioelectric jolt to send the Beetle jumping out. The Devourer uses rapid muscle contractions.

Of those, only one, the Deathspitter is really directly comparable to gunpowder or cordite or what have you, as the rest aren’t a chemical reaction.

The Biovore again uses muscle spasms to launch its payload. So yes bracing would be needed, there’s likely nothing like the recoil of a regular cannon or launcher.

 Irbis wrote:

Which, by the way, is hilariously stupid for anyone who ever saw a real horse.

Hooves are an evolutionary response to a weight distribution problem. The biological equivalent of stilettos is not.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Biovore again uses muscle spasms to launch its payload. So yes bracing would be needed, there’s likely nothing like the recoil of a regular cannon or launcher.

Visually, the recoil would look different. The underlying physics remain the exact same for a Biovore and a howitzer.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Surely that all depends on how the guns work?

Whilst we might feel a need to brace after a particularly violent curry and night on the pop, even the gustiest of blanket rippers is in no actual danger of sending us skiting out of bed.

Tyranid ranged weapons use a variety of ways to propel their vile ammunitions. Spinefists for example hook into the bearer’s airways, using air pressure to launch the spines. A Deathspitter uses a chemical reaction. Fleshborers a bioelectric jolt to send the Beetle jumping out. The Devourer uses rapid muscle contractions.

Of those, only one, the Deathspitter is really directly comparable to gunpowder or cordite or what have you, as the rest aren’t a chemical reaction.

The Biovore again uses muscle spasms to launch its payload. So yes bracing would be needed, there’s likely nothing like the recoil of a regular cannon or launcher.

Signature worthy

Pretty much the only new model I don’t like is the Deathleaper, and that’s because of the membrane trench coat. Have to be really nit picky to find faults with anything else.

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The tyrannofex has legs with hooves for the rear appendages

Which, by the way, is hilariously stupid for anyone who ever saw a real horse. Hooves can't take big hits, they easily split if subjected to too much pressure (like your nail splitting lengthwise, except way worse and more painful) which makes the horse unable to walk, and quickly ends in death even if there are no predators around (because then horse puts its weight on the other 3 limbs, overloading them in turn and causing issues in those). It's more obscure than a horse breaking leg, but it can be just as bad. There is a reason why people invented iron horseshoes (to spread the weight on the whole hoof and protect the vulnerable bottom), figuring out how to nail them on was dangerous both to animal and people trying to do so, but the alternative was much worse.

To be fair Tyranids might have hooves, but we assume that they are like their armour plating and thus insanely harder than a horse's hoof on Earth. Considering that Tyranids have armour plating that is basically equivalent to heavy tank armour, it would be no surprise that their hooves would be insanely durable as well. Forget a metal horse shoe, the Tyranid Hoof is likely just one massive lump of iron-hard material. The only soft parts being elements that allow claws/talons and similar on the hooves to move around to increase stability (though from memory, a good number of those types of attachment are more in the ankle/wrist region)

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
With these updates, do Tyranids have any models that are not plastic anymore?

Except FW ones, the only resins left are the Red Terror and Spore Mines Cluster, both not available anymore.

 Overread wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The tyrannofex has legs with hooves for the rear appendages

Which, by the way, is hilariously stupid for anyone who ever saw a real horse. Hooves can't take big hits, they easily split if subjected to too much pressure (like your nail splitting lengthwise, except way worse and more painful) which makes the horse unable to walk, and quickly ends in death even if there are no predators around (because then horse puts its weight on the other 3 limbs, overloading them in turn and causing issues in those). It's more obscure than a horse breaking leg, but it can be just as bad. There is a reason why people invented iron horseshoes (to spread the weight on the whole hoof and protect the vulnerable bottom), figuring out how to nail them on was dangerous both to animal and people trying to do so, but the alternative was much worse.

To be fair Tyranids might have hooves, but we assume that they are like their armour plating and thus insanely harder than a horse's hoof on Earth. Considering that Tyranids have armour plating that is basically equivalent to heavy tank armour, it would be no surprise that their hooves would be insanely durable as well. Forget a metal horse shoe, the Tyranid Hoof is likely just one massive lump of iron-hard material. The only soft parts being elements that allow claws/talons and similar on the hooves to move around to increase stability (though from memory, a good number of those types of attachment are more in the ankle/wrist region)

Well, the hooves are silly also because they are the mark of prey animals, not predators. Big nids should have elephant/mumakil type feet. The small and medium bugs should have feet like genestealers, the only nid organism with appropriate predator paws/feet.

Have you seen the damage a hoof kick does?

Prey animals are often insanely strong compared to many predators*. There's a reason many predators hunt in packs and often hunt the weak/old/injured/young. A healthy prey animal in their prime is not something the average predator hunts.

In fact humans are an oddity in that we do hunt the best and most prime of prey animals and that's because we use traps/guns rather than close combat (without weapons)


Plus Tyranids have hooves on their hind legs, however they have all claws and talons on the front/middle. Unlike animals on earth which predominantly have only one approach - hoof or claw - over all four legs. Tyranids are much more like the duckbilled platypus


*hippos are more deadly than lions in Africa - at least regarding the number of people killed/injured. Whilst I believe zebra rank up very high for captive zoo animals.

That and persistence hunting

We may be nowhere near as fast as other species, but we do have endurance. No need to fight if your prey is completely shagged out after a 30 minute hunt!

Hooves are the best at traction. If you need to move long distances over difficult terrain while also being able to reach high speeds on open ground you want hooves.

 Overread wrote:
Have you seen the damage a hoof kick does?

Prey animals are often insanely strong compared to many predators*. There's a reason many predators hunt in packs and often hunt the weak/old/injured/young. A healthy prey animal in their prime is not something the average predator hunts.

In fact humans are an oddity in that we do hunt the best and most prime of prey animals and that's because we use traps/guns rather than close combat (without weapons)


Plus Tyranids have hooves on their hind legs, however they have all claws and talons on the front/middle. Unlike animals on earth which predominantly have only one approach - hoof or claw - over all four legs. Tyranids are much more like the duckbilled platypus


*hippos are more deadly than lions in Africa - at least regarding the number of people killed/injured. Whilst I believe zebra rank up very high for captive zoo animals.

Hippos don't have hooves.

What do zebras hunt?

I guess the T-rex really missed out by not having hooves. Like the rest of the dinosaurs. Maybe that's why they went extinct.

 Arschbombe wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Have you seen the damage a hoof kick does?

Prey animals are often insanely strong compared to many predators*. There's a reason many predators hunt in packs and often hunt the weak/old/injured/young. A healthy prey animal in their prime is not something the average predator hunts.

In fact humans are an oddity in that we do hunt the best and most prime of prey animals and that's because we use traps/guns rather than close combat (without weapons)


Plus Tyranids have hooves on their hind legs, however they have all claws and talons on the front/middle. Unlike animals on earth which predominantly have only one approach - hoof or claw - over all four legs. Tyranids are much more like the duckbilled platypus


*hippos are more deadly than lions in Africa - at least regarding the number of people killed/injured. Whilst I believe zebra rank up very high for captive zoo animals.

Hippos don't have hooves.

What do zebras hunt?

I guess the T-rex really missed out by not having hooves. Like the rest of the dinosaurs. Maybe that's why they went extinct.

Hippos do indeed not have hooves, but they are considered a prey species. My example was more a very well known and cited one that helps highlight how whilst we might think of predators as being super scary; a lot of "prey" animals are just as if not more deadly in reality.

As for zebras in zoos, it means that they hunt zookeepers

As for T-Rex that's a red-herring because far as I know reptiles don't have hooves to start with. Maybe it would have been superior for it to have had hooves! Or maybe it wouldn't matter.

Hippos do in fact have hooves, they are unguligrades, their 4 toes are covered in hoof material, but quite different to other Artiodactyla, research shows their evolutionary link to deer and also whales.

They are also not considered a prey species do to their aggressive nature, that they have no natural predator as adults, with Nile Crocs, hyenas and lions preying on their young, but only opportunistically

 Overread wrote:
Naw that's just the standard GW community answer. That said considering Tyranids are the big focus I could expect that they have got models lined up for expansion books later in 10th edition. Heck there might even be a special character style model if they do another Partworks magazine release which seems to have become a standard thing for GW to do right now.

So I'd expect another Marines VS Tyranids book which might splice some Genestealer Cultist models in on the Tyranid side.

Did necrons get models lined up for later in 9th?

They were the big focus then.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That and persistence hunting

We may be nowhere near as fast as other species, but we do have endurance. No need to fight if your prey is completely shagged out after a 30 minute hunt!

30 minutes! I'd be completely shagged out! Interesting vernacular though...

Guys, check the pic of Norn Assimilator (one with a Wraithlord) on WarCom. It looks like there are no additional, small upper talons, and it also has brainy tentacles like Emissary on its back. Either there are some options or someone in GW built it wrong for the photo.