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2017/07/21 19:23:12
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is anyone able to enhance those pictures? I tried zooming in and rescaling and what not but I still can't read any of it.
Has FW said they will do chapter tactics for the Badab chapters?
You betcha they will - and they will be better than the space marine codex.
I disagree. Since that is old IP I don't think they will write new rules. My guess is that they will say:
Raptors -- Use Ravenguard tactics/strategems, but only Raptors characters
Minotaurs -- Use black templar tactics/strategems, but only minotaurs characters
etc.
Seems to run contrary to the very reason Forge World writes rules.
Writing 8-16 chapters worth of Relics, Warlord traits, Strategems, and Chapter tactics, and then testing them is big red book levels of work. Maybe they release a grand Codex Space Marines: Forgeworld Edition sometime next year. But before then, I think they will just say: "Use the plastic book's parent chapter rules, here are the parent linkages".
EDIT: why would they not charge money for so much work? We are paying 50$ for the development costs of the rules in the new Space Marine book.
No one said they wouldn't charge money for the book, no one said it would be anytime soon either, that was all implied by you when you simply said "I dont think they will write new rules". You sir, have been putting words in our mouth.
And they dont have to write relics, they only did that for the Red Scorpions. Warlord Traits can just be assigned to the Special Characters.Strategems could easily just be, use the codex ones.
2017/07/21 19:26:21
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is anyone able to enhance those pictures? I tried zooming in and rescaling and what not but I still can't read any of it.
Has FW said they will do chapter tactics for the Badab chapters?
You betcha they will - and they will be better than the space marine codex.
I disagree. Since that is old IP I don't think they will write new rules. My guess is that they will say:
Raptors -- Use Ravenguard tactics/strategems, but only Raptors characters
Minotaurs -- Use black templar tactics/strategems, but only minotaurs characters
etc.
Seems to run contrary to the very reason Forge World writes rules.
Writing 8-16 chapters worth of Relics, Warlord traits, Strategems, and Chapter tactics, and then testing them is big red book levels of work. Maybe they release a grand Codex Space Marines: Forgeworld Edition sometime next year. But before then, I think they will just say: "Use the plastic book's parent chapter rules, here are the parent linkages".
EDIT: why would they not charge money for so much work? We are paying 50$ for the development costs of the rules in the new Space Marine book.
No one said they wouldn't charge money for the book, no one said it would be anytime soon either, that was all implied by you when you simply said "I dont think they will write new rules". You sir, have been putting words in our mouth.
And they dont have to write relics, they only did that for the Red Scorpions. Warlord Traits can just be assigned to the Special Characters.Strategems could easily just be, use the codex ones.
Okay, let me update my prediction then.
2017: a FAQ with "use this plastic chapter's rules for this resin chapter" comes out in PDF so that resin players can run their models this year.
2018: a big expensive book for Resin chapters with full blown rules different from plastic chapters.
2017/07/21 19:28:26
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Yea, glad he took them just far enough away so no one can really make out much....
See above. I can make out 80% of it.
Thanks, I was able to read all of the aggressor squad options with that trick
Meh. They are an 18" range "bolter storm" squad with a powerfist. Terminators with +1w, -1sv and a better gun basically. Kinda kills terminators in my opinion, but they were never great anyways.
Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
2017/07/21 19:31:08
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is anyone able to enhance those pictures? I tried zooming in and rescaling and what not but I still can't read any of it.
Has FW said they will do chapter tactics for the Badab chapters?
You betcha they will - and they will be better than the space marine codex.
I disagree. Since that is old IP I don't think they will write new rules. My guess is that they will say:
Raptors -- Use Ravenguard tactics/strategems, but only Raptors characters
Minotaurs -- Use black templar tactics/strategems, but only minotaurs characters
etc.
Seems to run contrary to the very reason Forge World writes rules.
Writing 8-16 chapters worth of Relics, Warlord traits, Strategems, and Chapter tactics, and then testing them is big red book levels of work. Maybe they release a grand Codex Space Marines: Forgeworld Edition sometime next year. But before then, I think they will just say: "Use the plastic book's parent chapter rules, here are the parent linkages".
EDIT: why would they not charge money for so much work? We are paying 50$ for the development costs of the rules in the new Space Marine book.
No one said they wouldn't charge money for the book, no one said it would be anytime soon either, that was all implied by you when you simply said "I dont think they will write new rules". You sir, have been putting words in our mouth.
And they dont have to write relics, they only did that for the Red Scorpions. Warlord Traits can just be assigned to the Special Characters.Strategems could easily just be, use the codex ones.
Okay, let me update my prediction then.
2017: a FAQ with "use this plastic chapter's rules for this resin chapter" comes out in PDF so that resin players can run their models this year.
2018: a big expensive book for Resin chapters with full blown rules different from plastic chapters.
Yea, glad he took them just far enough away so no one can really make out much....
See above. I can make out 80% of it.
Thanks, I was able to read all of the aggressor squad options with that trick
Meh. They are an 18" range "bolter storm" squad with a powerfist. Terminators with +1w, -1sv and a better gun basically. Kinda kills terminators in my opinion, but they were never great anyways.
[/spoiler
Are you sure Aggressors have 3? I think I see a 2 with the W= deletion trick. 2 wounds with no invul save on a 3+ is uh .. something alright. I hope the other side doesn't have autocannons or anything with Rend -3.
2017/07/21 19:54:56
Subject: Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
If I had some aggressors, I could see running them as raven guard. No way they are worth putting into a 300 point transport. But for 1CP, I could plop them in cover halfway up the board and have them be a threat that needs to be killed. But even then, anything with rend -2 or better is going to make dogmeat out of them.
ALright, trying not to be positive here. I see two good uses assuming they are ravenguard since those are the only viable options I see here. I am going to assume they are 120-130 points.
Flameguantlets: set them up in cover literally 9" away from the enemy before battle round 1, dare opponent to charge or shoot them off the board. You won't get the -1 to hit, but if you have first turn then you get 6D6 flamer hits on the enemies screen and a 10 swing powerfist charge.
Bolterstorm setup: set them up in cover 18" away from the enemy. Opponent will have to move close to negate the -1 to hit. Double shoot with a whole lot of str 4 ap0 shots.
Upon thinking about it, I think I like them better than 225 point inceptor squads. EDIT: yes, aggressors are 2W. So are inceptors. Which is why they are non-competitive junk right now. Maybe ravenguard fixes it? Seriously tho, that Ravenguard strategem is AMAZING. It occurs after seize, so you can wait and figure out just where you need to put them.
EDIT2: ravenguard helblasters are going to be very good. Run them in 10 man squads so 1CP deepstrikes 350 points of models. Why ever run transports? Just pay HQ taxes for CPs. I can think of some good HQ out there. Also, WOW, devastator squads. Since the ravenguard setup isn't a MOVE, you get to hit at full ballistic skill. THe alphastrike on turn 1 is nuts, but you can still counterplay if you get seized or roll turn 2.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/07/21 20:43:21
2017/07/21 20:33:37
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Aggressors
Come with auto hellstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launchers. Can replace both with flamestorm gauntlets. Hellstorm guantlets are assault 6 18" range bolters. Fragstorm grenade launchers are assault D6 18" bolters. The flamestorm gauntlets are assault 2d6 flamers. In melee both gauntlets are powerfists. A unit of 6 can be set into 2 combat squads of 3. They can fire all weapons twice if didn't move on their turn (including overwatch). They also don't suffer any penalty to their hit rolls for advancing and firing assault weapons.
Reivers
Can replace bolt carbines with combat knives. Grav-chutes give normal deep strike. Grapnel launchers don't count any vertical distances when determining how far they can move that turn. They can also go into reserve and arrive more then 9" from the enemy and within 6" of any table edge.
Redemptor
Comes with a heavy onslaught gatling cannon, heavy flamer, icarus rocket pod, 2 fragstorm grenade launchers and a redemptor fist. Can replace heavy flamer with onslaught gatling cannon, heavy onslaught gatling cannon with macro plasma incinerator and fragstorm grenade launchers with storm bolters.
Heavy Onslaught gatling cannon: Heavy 12, S5, -1 1 damage
Macro Plasma Incinerator: Heavy D6, S 8 (9), -4, 1 (2) damage. If supercharged, takes 1 mortal wound for each 1 to hit.
Icarus Rocket Pod: Heavy D3, 24", S7, -1 1 damage. +1 to hit against flyers, -1 to hit against everything else.
Onslaught gatling cannon: 24", Heavy 6 S5, -1, 1 damage
Redemptor fist is a dreadnought ccw that does D6 damage instead of 3
Inceptors
Went up by 2 power. Can combat squad into 2 3 man squads.
Plasma exterminator: 18", assault d3 plasma guns.
Hellblasters
Went down 4 power. Can take 5-10 and combat squad. All models can replace plasma incinerators with assault plasma incinerators or heavy plasma incinerators. Sergeant can swap bolt pistol for plasma pistol.
Assault Plasma Incinerators: 24", assault 2 S6 (7), -4, 1 (2) damage. Supercharge kills as normal plasmagun
Heavy Plasma Incinerator: 36", heavy 1, S8 (9), -4, 1 (2) damage, Supercharge kills as normal plasmagun.
Replusor
Toughness looks like 8 or 9 (blurry), 16 wounds. 3+ save. Comes with a Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, twin heavy bolter, inbuilt heavy stubber, 2 storm bolters, icarus heavy stubber, 2 krakstorm grenade launchers and auto launchers. (I'm guessing a bit on some of the names. Again, blurry). Can replace twin heavy bolters with twin lascannons, replace heavy onslaught gatling cannon with las-talon, inbuilt heavy stubber with onslaught gatling cannon, storm bolters with fragstorm grenade launchers, icarus heavy stubber with icarus rocket pod, storm bolter or fragstorm grenade launcher and auto launchers with 2 fragstorm grenade launchers. It can take an addition inbuilt heavy stubber.
Many weapons you can look up in the dreadnought entry
Icarus Heavy Stubber: 36" heavy 3, S4, -1, 1 damage. +1 to hit flyers, -1 against everything else
Inbuilt Heavy Stubber is the same without the flyer bit
Krakstorm grenade launchers: 16" assault 3 (I think) S6, -1 D3 damage
Las-talon: 24" heavy 2, S9, -3, D6
Hover tank: distances and ranges are always measured from hull rather than base. Repulsor field: subtract 2" from charge rolls made when charging a repulsor. Power of the Machine Spirit as normal. Auto launchers are basically smoke launchers.
Can transport 10 primaris infantry. Gravis models count as 2. Cannot transport jump pack models.
Thanks, Emissary
2017/07/21 20:39:38
Subject: Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Flameguantlets: set them up in cover literally 9" away from the enemy before battle round 1, dare opponent to charge or shoot them off the board. You won't get the -1 to hit, but if you have first turn then you get 6D6 flamer hits on the enemies screen and a 10 swing powerfist charge.
Bolterstorm setup: set them up in cover 18" away from the enemy. Opponent will have to move close to negate the -1 to hit. Double shoot with a whole lot of str 4 ap0 shots.
Upon thinking about it, I think I like them better than 225 point inceptor squads. EDIT: yes, aggressors are 2W. So are inceptors. Which is why they are non-competitive junk right now. Maybe ravenguard fixes it? Seriously tho, that Ravenguard strategem is AMAZING. It occurs after seize, so you can wait and figure out just where you need to put them.
Dropping in at 9" does nothing for all flamers as they're still out of range if they charge without moving to which they'll just shoot them anyway. And you won't shoot, because you can't get any closer. Additionally they will have "moved" and will not double overwatch.
These guys basically NEED a transport or LOS cover when deepstriking.
2017/07/21 20:42:24
Subject: Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
Flameguantlets: set them up in cover literally 9" away from the enemy before battle round 1, dare opponent to charge or shoot them off the board. You won't get the -1 to hit, but if you have first turn then you get 6D6 flamer hits on the enemies screen and a 10 swing powerfist charge.
Bolterstorm setup: set them up in cover 18" away from the enemy. Opponent will have to move close to negate the -1 to hit. Double shoot with a whole lot of str 4 ap0 shots.
Upon thinking about it, I think I like them better than 225 point inceptor squads. EDIT: yes, aggressors are 2W. So are inceptors. Which is why they are non-competitive junk right now. Maybe ravenguard fixes it? Seriously tho, that Ravenguard strategem is AMAZING. It occurs after seize, so you can wait and figure out just where you need to put them.
Dropping in at 9" does nothing for all flamers as they're still out of range if they charge without moving to which they'll just shoot them anyway. And you won't shoot, because you can't get any closer. Additionally they will have "moved" and will not double overwatch.
These guys basically NEED a transport or LOS cover when deepstriking.
He was talking about running them as Raven Guard, whose exclusive strat is -1cp to "redeploy anywhere outside 9" before the game begins. So he could then move in his move phase to make the flamers work. Its better than deepstrike, but yuck, that is a lot of points and resources spent to get some suicide flamers to do a round of shooting. :-p
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2017/07/21 20:47:40
Subject: Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
He was talking about running them as Raven Guard, whose exclusive strat is -1cp to "redeploy anywhere outside 9" before the game begins. So he could then move in his move phase to make the flamers work. Its better than deepstrike, but yuck, that is a lot of points and resources spent to get some suicide flamers to do a round of shooting. :-p
Well holy gak there is no limitations on movement on that strat. thats really dumb.
Feth flamers
Chuck some super sneaky terminators, ironclads or other nonsense 9" away move 6 and get that hot 3" charge.
Flameguantlets: set them up in cover literally 9" away from the enemy before battle round 1, dare opponent to charge or shoot them off the board. You won't get the -1 to hit, but if you have first turn then you get 6D6 flamer hits on the enemies screen and a 10 swing powerfist charge.
Bolterstorm setup: set them up in cover 18" away from the enemy. Opponent will have to move close to negate the -1 to hit. Double shoot with a whole lot of str 4 ap0 shots.
Upon thinking about it, I think I like them better than 225 point inceptor squads. EDIT: yes, aggressors are 2W. So are inceptors. Which is why they are non-competitive junk right now. Maybe ravenguard fixes it? Seriously tho, that Ravenguard strategem is AMAZING. It occurs after seize, so you can wait and figure out just where you need to put them.
Dropping in at 9" does nothing for all flamers as they're still out of range if they charge without moving to which they'll just shoot them anyway. And you won't shoot, because you can't get any closer. Additionally they will have "moved" and will not double overwatch.
These guys basically NEED a transport or LOS cover when deepstriking.
He was talking about running them as Raven Guard, whose exclusive strat is -1cp to "redeploy anywhere outside 9" before the game begins. So he could then move in his move phase to make the flamers work. Its better than deepstrike, but yuck, that is a lot of points and resources spent to get some suicide flamers to do a round of shooting. :-p
Is it really a lot of resources? 1CP? If you do this you always run max squads before the game and decide whether or not your combat squad based on opponent comp. Aggressors are two threats: first they do a lot of flaming. Second they have powerfists and can threaten transports and T7 shoot tanks very cost efficiently. I am assuming they are 130 points based on their power level. If they are 220 points like the inceptors, yeah, aggressors are complete trash. 260 points and 1CP to put 12d6 flamers and 20 powerfist swings in your opponents face turn 1 sounds lik e a steal to me. They should kill 120 points of models with those flamers and if they hit anything with those fists then they made back their points. The issue is getting turn 2, but thanks to OP ravenguard you can always decide not to suicide bomb them and instead put them somewhere safer. WHat makes them suck is that they are so flimsy. 3+, no invul, and 2W is complete ass when people run entire lists of heavy support.
Well holy gak there is no limitations on movement on that strat. thats really dumb.
Feth flamers
Chuck some super sneaky terminators, ironclads or other nonsense 9" away move 6 and get that hot 3" charge.
Infantry only.
Awww dreadnoughts never get to have any fun
but still.
you could chuck out a nice unit or 3 of Assault marines, terminators or any flavor of strong close combat units. with an option to keep them cheaper by not giving them jump pack type things.
deep strike characters first turn to save on command points
Question for Matt or anyone else that has the codex, is there a point increase on units that benefit from chapter tactics as opposed to the index point values? And further on that note, is there any point differences from the index at all, and if so on what models?
Numbers are not required so don't get yourself in trouble, and thank you very much for the inside scoop.
7500+
4000+
3000+
1500+
1000+
1000+
1000+
2017/07/21 21:59:55
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
@MongooseMatt
I am asking again since I think it got lost in my post, but it looks like the Fist of Vengeance is Str X2, AP -3, with no penalty to hit. What is the damage value?
Well holy gak there is no limitations on movement on that strat. thats really dumb.
Feth flamers
Chuck some super sneaky terminators, ironclads or other nonsense 9" away move 6 and get that hot 3" charge.
Infantry only.
Awww dreadnoughts never get to have any fun
but still.
you could chuck out a nice unit or 3 of Assault marines, terminators or any flavor of strong close combat units. with an option to keep them cheaper by not giving them jump pack type things.
deep strike characters first turn to save on command points
Reivers strike me as a pretty good option here
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2017/07/21 22:03:38
Subject: Re:Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/07/21 22:06:14
Subject: Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: Codex review available / Preorders 22nd of July]
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
7500+
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1000+
1000+ 
5500 pts 
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13.000 pts 