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Made in si
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
The course is clear. We need to petition governments to stop changing uniforms and gear, to make it easier on future historical gamers.
One of the early miniature wargaming books had a similar line. "When uniforms changed to khaki and olive drab, they should have stopped wars."
chaos0xomega wrote:
Historical gamers, in order to remain "faithful to the source material" require very specific miniatures for their games. Its not uncommon to see some of them collect multiple armies for the same faction in the same period. <snip>
This correlates to my own experience. It is also why there are usually at least three different types of French Napoleonic line infantry on offer by the same manufacturer. The earliest still have uniform details from the Consular period, before Napoleon crowned himself Emperor. The middle period 1807-1812 would be the most commonly seen, and the 1815 uniform was only used for the Hundred Days that resulted in four battles culminating in the Battle of Waterloo. And that only covers the French line fusilers! The flank company uniforms changed less frequently, but they did change, as did the line artillery.

The movie The Duellists impressed me as they got all the uniform changes for the two different hussar regiments correct over the time period that the two main characters conducted their feud.

Now my old Napoleonic group was not so fanatical as to insist on playing with the correct uniforms for [x] year. You selected the period/uniforms you wanted to paint. And that was that, although you were expected to have the details correct for your chosen uniform period and army. By the same token, we were fighting pick-up battles, and not recreating actual historical battles, so having a British Spanish Peninsular army allied with a 1809 Austrian army against an 1804 French army supported by an 1812 French army was perfectly fine. And at least once we had French army versus French army since we only had one other player that day, so I was with the British that day, as "Tom", the senior French player could easily field at least three corps by himself, but the British player and I (the junior and with the smallest collection; I was fifteen at the time) only had about 2.5 corps between us. So the British-"French Royalist" alliance took two corps against Tom's two corps.

But I have encountered some of the fanaticism chaos0xomega mentions. They still had WW2 micro-armor at the store then. And one of the Wehrmacht players wanted to show his panzergrenadiers off to me. If you've seen infantry in 1/285th scale, you know how small they are. Yet he went to the trouble of painting the service branch tabs the Apfel farb of the panzergrenadiers. He had to pull out a high-powered magnifying glass to show it off, but he had gone to the trouble! So they really are panzergrenadiers, and not mere infantry.
chaos0xomega wrote:
I would guess that, in reality, theres probably more sci-fi gamers in the hobby at this point than there are historical gamers - from what I've seen historical gamers tend to trend older, and a lot of them have been in it for so long they already have expansive collections. Sci-fi/fantasy trends younger and is very much still a growing market, which probably goes hand in hand with there being a growing demand that needs to be filled.
Also, it seems to me there less interest in historical themes (at least locally), even for WW2. And with the Soviet Union gone, the contemporary micro-armor group dried up. This might be different on the East Coast, where Revolutionary War and ACW battles took place, but here in California there aren't any major battlefields or other historical sites to inspire a prospective mini gamer.

Another point, with historical gamers usually being older, many of them are dead. The British player mentioned above is still alive, but he was one of the younger players at the time, and I am now "Tom's" age when we met (well into my fifties). "Tom" is dead. Even if they had family, the heirs usually don't have any interest (which is fine - it's a hobby after all), and either give away or sell dad's collection.

Edit: One reason I've focused more on fantasy/sci-fi as I grew older, was wanting more scope for creativity. With historicals, the "groupthink" is that you paint a faithful recreation appropriate to the figure or equipment. I have service branch colors for some of my fantasy armies, but they are of my own choosing, not that of the Emperor, or the Heer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/06 18:59:52


Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Kings of War Historical: Macedonian [WiP]
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Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
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Lake County, Illinois

Panzerjägers

Spoiler:
   
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PourSpelur wrote:
Honestly surprised that modular robots aren't as popular as I thought they'd be. If done well I can see them going gangbusters. Nobody does anything similar and they're pretty game agnostic. If it's Sci-Fi, there's room for more droids.

See my earlier post, in 40K alone you can make 15 different styles of robots and no matter what you pick it will be useless for 12-14 other armies. It's almost impossible to do something that will appeal to many without sacrificing appeal to everyone and making no one want the kit.

PourSpelur wrote:
That said, if cyberpunk security wins and I can convert them to Arbites relatively easily...I'll get 10 boxes minimum. Always wanted to do a full Arbites army for 40k but never found a good "base" model for a reasonable price.

Uhhh, Palatine cops from Necromunda? Delaque, Esher, and Orlok make reasonable minis for 3 other cyberpunk flavors too...

alphaecho wrote:
Good advice but I didn't have the issue with building the spiders that others seem to have had.

In 90% of the cases when people complain about holes being too small they put too much glue on and physically jammed the hole. The only way to avoid it is to cut the plug end to make more space or use glue more sparingly and only on outer end of the bit, then the issues usually vanish.
   
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SoCal

I was dry fitting.

Also, why do you assume the entire sci fi market is looking only for 40k-alike minis?

   
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My happy place.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was dry fitting.

Also, why do you assume the entire sci fi market is looking only for 40k-alike minis?


Because it's the market leader and has enraptured most of the market of active gamers

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
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SoCal

Emphasis should have been on “only”. The poster was acting like there would be no sales if the items weren’t an exact match for a GW range. By his logic, Stargrave should have failed, and WA’s lizardmen since they aren’t similar enough to GW’s lizardmen.

   
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was dry fitting.

Also, why do you assume the entire sci fi market is looking only for 40k-alike minis?


Not sure if you're referring to me? I don't think I made any such assertion?

That being said, 40k is a pretty massive segment of the sci-fi miniatures market, and historically the most relevant for 3rd party sci-fi minis sales. Stargrave is virtually irrelevant by comparison. 40k is also something that other games in the scifi genre is not - persistent and enduring. I.E. its an "evergreen" game, something that you can design products for in 2021 and probably still be selling the same products for in 2031, whereas games like Stargrave are generally a flash in the pan, hot and exciting today, but interest will taper off over the next few years and the community will eventually mostly migrate to other systems (which isn't necessarily a problem, as long as a game with the same generic scifi aesthetic remains popular theres a market for miniatures that fill that niche). Then there are other games, like Warcaster, Infinity, etc. which are essentially only ever played with official models (yes, I know there are some out there who have custom count-as/converted/kitbashed armies, etc., but they are an absolute rarity and make up a significantly smaller fraction of their respective communities than they would if they were doing the same for 40k) - theres basically no market for alternative miniatures for these games (unless you're one of the brave 3D sculptors/shapeways shops willing to risk legal action from Disney to produce minis that FFG/AMG/Asmodee have not yet produced themselves officially.

Fantasy on the other hand, as it pertains to WA s lizardmen, is a much more fractured market without a true "monolith" - Age of Sigmar is easily the largest fantasy miniatures game out there, but its a very non-traditional one and nowhere near as dominant as 40k is within the scifi genre - theres a significant market for non-GW minis as a result.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Lake County, Illinois

I guess nobody has posted this preview picture from their newsletter yet.

They also said:
The Conquistadors ended up being a full sprue and a 1/2 so we needed a new set to fill up the leftover 1/2 frame. These are wrapping up design now and will hopefully fit so that we can get both of those sets tooling away.

As Panzerjäger and Later Roman plastic is run and boxed, tooling continues on WW1/2 French, Cannon Fodder, and Goblins which will be up next. More WW1 sets are in planning, lots more for the Dark Ages, more ancients, more 19th century, more sci-fi and fantasy, and a heck of a lot more WW2.
[Thumb - ec523d84b5741405c18711c87daf14b92bef2009cebbebc1a8be8961b6216527 (1).jpg]
Wargames Atlantic preview

   
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SoCal

I was responding to the idea that modular robots were doomed to failure because supposedly the only people voting for it were expecting not-Necrons, not-Mechanicus or some other specific 40k faction. Did you read “modular robots” and think “must be a 40k proxy”? I sure didn’t, and from comments neither did most people who voted for it. That whole line of reasoning was ridiculous and insulting, and meant to be/

   
Made in us
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

ah yeah, that wasn't me. TBH though I had no idea what they were supposed to be, wasn't sure if they were meant to be mechs, or terminator style kill bots, or something more R2-D2 like, or what.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Tangentville, New Jersey

When I saw "modular", I assumed that it was to make customized bots that weren't uniform. Sort of like that Mantic pic earlier in the thread. The sort of thing for folks who need droid-type stuff for any number of things.

I didn't think anyone was expecting "Not-crons" from "Modular Robots."


 
   
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San Jose, CA

I read it as great parts for kitbashing and converting
   
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Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was responding to the idea that modular robots were doomed to failure because supposedly the only people voting for it were expecting not-Necrons, not-Mechanicus or some other specific 40k faction. Did you read “modular robots” and think “must be a 40k proxy”? I sure didn’t, and from comments neither did most people who voted for it. That whole line of reasoning was ridiculous and insulting, and meant to be/


When I hear 'modular robots', I am thinking 1950's bots.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
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UK

 lord marcus wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was dry fitting.

Also, why do you assume the entire sci fi market is looking only for 40k-alike minis?


Because it's the market leader and has enraptured most of the market of active gamers


For me I've dropped a fair amount on Les Grognards but they're in proxy Vostroyan colours and grouped as per IG Codex rules.

They're still Death Fields future rules usable as they maintain their weapons as WA designed them. I also have science fiction Spiders and Lizardmen for the fun of it.

As a Praetorian collector, I'm on tenterhooks for Space Brits for some reason.

   
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My happy place.

alphaecho wrote:
 lord marcus wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was dry fitting.

Also, why do you assume the entire sci fi market is looking only for 40k-alike minis?


Because it's the market leader and has enraptured most of the market of active gamers


For me I've dropped a fair amount on Les Grognards but they're in proxy Vostroyan colours and grouped as per IG Codex rules.

They're still Death Fields future rules usable as they maintain their weapons as WA designed them. I also have science fiction Spiders and Lizardmen for the fun of it.

As a Praetorian collector, I'm on tenterhooks for Space Brits for some reason.


damnit, theres another use for the lizards. lizardmen with pith helmets

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
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SoCal

Just wait until you get some Middle East ancients you can put a lizard head on; it’ll be a Raptor Rapture.

   
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Charging Wild Rider





chaos0xomega wrote:
Historical gamers, in order to remain "faithful to the source material" require very specific miniatures for their games. Its not uncommon to see some of them collect multiple armies for the same faction in the same period, just a few years separated from eachother
Of course, that's only true for a very small segment of history. Get into some Dark Age gaming and your same figures can span a long period, because equipment changed little, and more importantly your guess is as good as mine in terms of the exact equipment used most of the time. WA's Irish easily cover multiple centuries for that reason. Anything more than a few hundred years ago doesn't tend to have the documentation to cover all aspects of the dress and equipment even if you want to be as accurate as possible, and far from all people care about this anyway.
(While perhaps not news to many, I do have to make this point as it seems to put off new players. No major chance of encounter button counters in medieval, dark age or ancients wargaming - which is probably for the best, as people did not in fact really have buttons to begin with. Those only became common in later medieval times. )
   
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UK

They're running a poll at the moment about what historical period(s) folk play/collect

i'll be interested to see the results

 
   
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UK

 lord marcus wrote:
alphaecho wrote:


As a Praetorian collector, I'm on tenterhooks for Space Brits for some reason.


damnit, theres another use for the lizards. lizardmen with pith helmets



Are you confirming the Space Brits come with spare helmets.

The Public has a right to know!!!

   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

alphaecho wrote:
 lord marcus wrote:
alphaecho wrote:


As a Praetorian collector, I'm on tenterhooks for Space Brits for some reason.


damnit, theres another use for the lizards. lizardmen with pith helmets



Are you confirming the Space Brits come with spare helmets.

The Public has a right to know!!!


The day a Wargames Atlantic kit doesn't come with spare heads is the day hell freezes over

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Going forward each new kit should simply come with lizard heads wearing the kit's headgear

EDIT: And Hussar bits of course

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 12:42:21


Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
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UK

Certainly one lizard head in a snazzy hat/helmet to represent a leader for that particular auxiliary force

 
   
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 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Certainly one lizard head in a snazzy hat/helmet to represent a leader for that particular auxiliary force
Who do I have to bribe to make this happen? This needs to be a thing.
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




UK

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
alphaecho wrote:
 lord marcus wrote:
alphaecho wrote:


As a Praetorian collector, I'm on tenterhooks for Space Brits for some reason.


damnit, theres another use for the lizards. lizardmen with pith helmets



Are you confirming the Space Brits come with spare helmets.

The Public has a right to know!!!


The day a Wargames Atlantic kit doesn't come with spare heads is the day hell freezes over


But not necessarily spare helmets. I have many knives though so old school converting could be the order of the day.

   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
They're running a poll at the moment about what historical period(s) folk play/collect

i'll be interested to see the results


But each voter can only choose one period, so it isn’t comprehensive.

   
Made in us
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Armpit of NY

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was responding to the idea that modular robots were doomed to failure because supposedly the only people voting for it were expecting not-Necrons, not-Mechanicus or some other specific 40k faction. Did you read “modular robots” and think “must be a 40k proxy”? I sure didn’t, and from comments neither did most people who voted for it. That whole line of reasoning was ridiculous and insulting, and meant to be/


It was not ridiculous or insulting. Whether a 40K stand in or not, something as vague and ill defined as ‘modular robots’ is not something to be excited about. Are we talking about 50s men in cardboard boxes painted silver? Androids? Terminators? Star Wars? Battlebots? Steampunk? All of those? See the problem yet? If someone has a particular idea in mind, something that doesn’t match what’s in the final box, it doesn’t sell at all! If the box is a hodgepodge of designs, will anyone buy it if only one or two of ten designs in it meets their needs? It has nothing to do with whether they work with 40K, or not, and everything to do with the fact that ‘modular robot’ far too easily means different things to different people.
   
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Cairo, Egypt

 totalfailure wrote:

It was not ridiculous or insulting. Whether a 40K stand in or not, something as vague and ill defined as ‘modular robots’ is not something to be excited about. Are we talking about 50s men in cardboard boxes painted silver? Androids? Terminators? Star Wars? Battlebots? Steampunk? All of those? See the problem yet?


Oddly I thought that was the advantage in voting of sci fi concepts without a strong description.

If you say WWII USMC I 90% know what I'm getting, same if you say Elf Rangers or Wild West civilians. And I'll vote accordingly.

Modular Robots? The image in my head might be completely different from yours. I'm seeing Short Circuit style industrial robots with weapons, you're seeing Terminators and he's seeing Robby the Robot, so we vote for 3 completely different things that all more or less fit the description.

It's like voting for Hope and Change. I like both of those things! So do you! Of course our ideas of what they mean might be completely different.


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Germany

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:

It was not ridiculous or insulting. Whether a 40K stand in or not, something as vague and ill defined as ‘modular robots’ is not something to be excited about. Are we talking about 50s men in cardboard boxes painted silver? Androids? Terminators? Star Wars? Battlebots? Steampunk? All of those? See the problem yet?


Oddly I thought that was the advantage in voting of sci fi concepts without a strong description.

If you say WWII USMC I 90% know what I'm getting, same if you say Elf Rangers or Wild West civilians. And I'll vote accordingly.

Modular Robots? The image in my head might be completely different from yours. I'm seeing Short Circuit style industrial robots with weapons, you're seeing Terminators and he's seeing Robby the Robot, so we vote for 3 completely different things that all more or less fit the description.

It's like voting for Hope and Change. I like both of those things! So do you! Of course our ideas of what they mean might be completely different.



Which is why the poll might've been skewed in the direction of vaguely-described things, i feel.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
They're running a poll at the moment about what historical period(s) folk play/collect

i'll be interested to see the results
Is it a Facebook poll? 'Cause I don't see it in their Articles and News section.

Question about the WGA Lizards. How do they compare to Frostgrave & Stargrave figures? I bought the GA: Snakemen for Stargrave kit-bashing, but they are too big to just "plug and play" with the cultist sci-fi weapon or Stargrave spares.

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
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