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2008/10/18 15:29:50
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Fixture of Dakka
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The new SM codex lists these squads under the entries for Chapter Master and Captain respectively. Do they count as a retinue or separate choice on the FOC?
G
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2008/10/18 16:02:08
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
Well I kind of moved near Toronto, actually.
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no freaking clue.
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2008/10/18 16:04:24
Subject: Re:Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
roaming the internet somewhere
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I think so, but I'm not sure.
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2008/10/18 16:06:52
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
wait wait wait wait... huh..?
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It's times like these that I wish god would come and slap some of these freakin rule designers. They make these things unnecessarily vague... grumble grumble
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/18 16:07:45
I play  (homegrown chapter)
Win 8
Draw1
Loss1
Follow the word of the Turtle Pie. Bathe your soul in its holy warmth and partake in its delicious redemption. Let not the temptation of Lesser desserts divert you, for All is Pie, and Turtle is All
97% of people have useless and blatantly false statistics in their sigs, if you are one of the 8% who doesn't, paste this in your sig to show just what a rebel you are |
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2008/10/18 17:01:57
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Neither. They are an HQ choice that it specifically says in their description doesn't take up an FoC
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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2008/10/18 17:04:00
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
wait wait wait wait... huh..?
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So... the honor guard... y'know.. the guys tasked to guard the lead guy in the army... aren't part of his squad?!
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I play (homegrown chapter)
Win 8
Draw1
Loss1
Follow the word of the Turtle Pie. Bathe your soul in its holy warmth and partake in its delicious redemption. Let not the temptation of Lesser desserts divert you, for All is Pie, and Turtle is All
97% of people have useless and blatantly false statistics in their sigs, if you are one of the 8% who doesn't, paste this in your sig to show just what a rebel you are |
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2008/10/18 17:38:59
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Nope, he doesn't ever have to join them during the game. No retinue rule for the SM's.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2008/10/18 18:02:20
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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They're pro-active guards instead of re-active. They might tag along with the guy, they may "guard" him by attacking the biggest threat to him.
Edit: And technically, the honor guards aren't there to guard the chapter master, they're there to guard the chapter banner. Strange considering you don't have to take said chapter banner anymore, but there you go.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/18 18:03:22
My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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2008/10/18 18:21:01
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Fixture of Dakka
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Lordhat what is your basis for that stance? The codex simply has an entry for each squad on the same page as the corresponding commander.
G
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2008/10/18 18:21:53
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Dakka Veteran
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Put yourself in the shoes of a new player. If you read the SM codex, what would you think? Do the rules say anywhere that the Captain/Chapter Master has to join the squad?
Really, this is nothing new. DA command squads, BA Honour Guard, Ork Nobz, and I think even Eldar Warlocks have all been played this way for months now.
Of course, you can join/deploy the character in the squad if you want to, but he can also leave voluntarily as well. I for one enjoy the flexibility.
The other fluff way of looking at it is that the Command Squad/Honour Guard are in the immiediate vincinity of the character, and thus are still guarding him. It's not like they are hundreds of miles away, more like a few dozen feet.
Zoned
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2008/10/18 18:23:09
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Dakka Veteran
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GBF, does it say they are his retinue? Does it say he has to join? Or does it simply say for every character you can take one of these squads?
Zoned
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2008/10/18 18:53:24
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Fixture of Dakka
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Why would he not join the squad? You can't take the squad unless you take the character.
G
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2008/10/18 20:19:49
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Lieutenant General
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And Daemonhunters can't take a Grey Knight Land Raider unless there is a Grey Knight Hero in the army. Does that mean he has to stay embarked in the Land Raider the whole game?
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2008/10/18 20:50:42
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Fixture of Dakka
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Who's on 1st?
G
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2008/10/18 22:03:34
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Dominar
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I'm assuming we're asking for the sole purpose of hiding an independent character in a retinue for ablative wounds, and wondering if this is legal or not.
In this situation, the answer is no, the IC can be singled out for combat.
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2008/10/18 22:21:09
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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No, they are not retinues. The chapter master (captain) can optionally join the honor guard (command squad), but nowhere does it say that he is required to do so. All characters with retinues explicitly state that the character cannot leave the retinue. There is no such rule in the SM codex, so the honor guard and command squads are not retinues.
If it helps, Marneus Calgar allows you to field three honor guard squads. That wouldn't make sense if the honor guard was a retinue that he was required to join. A character cannot be part of three squads simultaneously.
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2008/10/18 22:21:51
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity
Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa
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I find it amusing that they put the retinue rule into the main book, which prevents characters from being singled out in combat, but then remove retinues from all new codexes. Put your tin foil hats on now. Could this be some kind of conflict in their rules teams? The people who wrote the main book wanting one rule, while the people who wrote the codex didn't like it so worked around it?
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2008/10/18 22:24:27
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Proud Phantom Titan
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nothing is a retinues unless it is called one, other how does Calgar work with 3 honour guards? ... its taking people along time to adjust to that ... its a shame GW couldn't do some thing like make Telion a IC that takes a unit of scouts as a retinue that way every one could see the difference.
<edit >
and i bet that the IG codex will be full of retinue even if its just so BRB has some one with the retinues rules
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/18 22:26:33
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2008/10/18 22:29:48
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Tunneling Trygon
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I find it amusing that they put the retinue rule into the main book, which prevents characters from being singled out in combat, but then remove retinues from all new codexes. Put your tin foil hats on now. Could this be some kind of conflict in their rules teams? The people who wrote the main book wanting one rule, while the people who wrote the codex didn't like it so worked around it?
Nah, we may still see the rule in future codexes. For Tau this makes sense. Also for IG. I think for SMs and other armies they feltt it made more sense to not force the IC to stick with the unit, as they were known to strike out n their own to kick ass or whatever. They are also not neccesarily purely bodygaurds for the IC. Hard to say though.
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snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." |
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2008/10/18 23:07:24
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Fixture of Dakka
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the rules in the SM codex definitely don't say that the IC must remain attached to the honor guard/command squad. That the inclusion of Marneus allows a player to field up to three units of honorguard has no bearing IMO since Calgar can obviously be attached to only one. Not much of a case for either unit counting as a true retinue.
G
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2008/10/18 23:24:25
Subject: Re:Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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yeah,
I gotta say i'm shocked that SM captins can't get a retinue....
this kinda stuff sorta sucks, I've felt it in the Chaos Marines Codex... No retinues for chaos lords either...
This becomes a pain in dawn of war.. cos you gotta put your HQ on the table... but leaves his 'retinue' elite unit separtated from him in reserve... or am i reading it wrong?
Also what Hits me is when i Realised that I can't buy a squad of raptors, for my DP to join, since he's not a IC...
PaniC
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2008/10/19 00:33:31
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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You don't *have* to put your HQ on the table in DoW. You don't have to put *anything* on the table in DoW.
So if it doesn't feel right having the commander on his own, then keep him in reserve with his command squad/honour guard.
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2008/10/19 01:27:53
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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Or just put the command/honour guard squad on the board without the IC.
Command- and honour guard squads are just regular units that are HQ and an extra requirement (taking the IC), there is nothing special with them.
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In one game turn an Imperial guardsman can move 6", kill a few guys with his flamer, assault 6", kill two more guys with his bayonet, flee 12", regroup when assaulted, react 6", kill one more guy with his bayonet and then flee another 12".
So in one game turn an Imperial guardsman can move 42" and kill more than 5 people. At the same time a Chimera at top speed on a road can move 18"... |
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2008/10/19 04:47:38
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Resentful Grot With a Plan
Silver Spring, MD
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If the command squads/Honour guards were meant to be a "retinue" we would see them listed as such and we would see descriptions pertaining to "retinue" in their respective descriptions.
So I say no they do not become a retinue because there is nothing RAW saying as such. Those units are "unlocked" if a Captain & Chapter Master are taken. Other codices use the term "retinue" through out, this new SM Codex does not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/19 04:48:27
Club me. Ain't I cute?
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2008/10/19 07:08:01
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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There is no difference between the way the honour guard and command squad is listed relative to thier respective HQ units and the way the servitors are listed relative to a techmarine, however the servitors have special rules that apply when the techmarine leaves them so they clearly aren't a retinue.
If it doesn't say they are then they aren't.
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Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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2008/10/19 08:31:37
Subject: Re:Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Regular Dakkanaut
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There's something like 10+ codices. Just because the Space Marines don't have it doesn't mean the retinue rule is mysteriously absent.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/19 08:37:32
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2008/10/19 16:34:31
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity
Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa
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The last what, four, five codexes didn't have retinues. None for Chaos. None for Orks. None for Dark Angels. None for Blood Angels. None for Marines.
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2008/10/19 16:47:33
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Technically there's a fluff description that says they often act as retinues- but that's a fluff description, not a rule as written.
Edit: And Telion as an IC with Scout squad retinue would bite, that would make the squad worth 2VP's.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/19 16:48:24
My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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2008/10/19 18:42:33
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Proud Phantom Titan
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@breton ... yes if you killed him other wise he could jump into another squad but the point was more couldn't GW include a retinue or leave out the retinue rule
@Aduro ... you forgot the eldar we don't have retinue ether ... so basicly thats every codex writen for the 5th ed is without the rule?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/19 18:43:24
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2008/10/19 18:46:32
Subject: Are Honorguard and Command Squads count as retinues
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Yes, but its been retroactively applied to IG, and arguably Tyrant Guard, and probably will continue to be applied to Guard, possibly Nids Tyrant Guard if it was really meant to in the first place. There may even be other applications
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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under construction
1750 points
