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Looking at the last couple of codexes (Marine, Ork), and some of the early rumors coming out regarding the IG codex (some interesting ones just today), I'm trying to get a feel for where GW is trying to steer things, and how that will affect the IG and DE codexes.

For example, it appears vehicles (and transports especially) are being encouraged, through reduced points and slightly more friendly rules in 5th edition. There's an increase in the units available per org slot type, but a reduction in the oddball rules in general (unless a special character is taken). With marines, especially, there's some rigidity in unit size (tac squads of 10, for example), while orks are much more loose in terms of unit/squad size, which is appropriate.

Not sure how I feel on wargear. It's being handled differently, but it seems like there's more of it, especially looking at the marine codex. Relic blades, digital lasers, assault grenade launchers, etc. The increase in weapons that ignore terrain (for the marine codex) is interesting, too...I'm curious to see if it becomes common for other armies to get additional weapons that do that.

To some extent, it appears that they may be trying to get more models on the table for the same points-value game, or increase sales with the increase in unit types available. Not a bad thing, really, but a thought.

With this in mind, what kind of changes do you expect with IG and DE? As I've been playing around with DE recently, I've had a few thoughts on potential changes:

1- Slight drop in raider points: Maybe around 40? It's tough to tell how they'll play it...it's more fragile than, say, a razorback, and armed about the same, but much faster and more key to many DE units.

2- Simplification of drug effects: I can't imagine the random drug effects, that differ based on the unit, will survive in their current state. Maybe buy an effect from the list as a standard choice, like a regular upgrade?

3- Drop in point cost for reaver squads and large decrease for scourges.

4- Scout or infiltrate for units? I felt more strongly for this prior to the FAQ regarding turboboosting for the scout move. Seemed like it would better fit the Dark Eldar theme, allowing raiders to enter from the flanks much like a wild raiding party would do. The actual "scout" or "infiltrate" part doesn't fit so well, but I can't see them making a special rule that lets them enter from short board edges LIKE they have infiltrate. Maybe as part of a special rule for a character?

5- Removal of the capturing rules? Was a pain to track in the first place, and now serves less purpose with KP and objective based missions. MAYBE something exotic...extra KP scored for killing/capturing enemy HQ in melee? Doubtful...would add to the theme/flavor of the army, but tougher to implement well with the new ruleset.

6- How will the scourge/DL issue be handled? Making DLs assault causes issues, allowing troops to fire them from vehicles and making them very effective for scourges. Keeping them heavy continues to make them a poor choice for scourges.

7- Warrior will drop to 7 points per. Wyches will drop a point and automatically get wych weapons....strange that they have the option NOT to take them now.

8- Warp beasts will be handled differently, force org chart-wise.

Got a headache, so I'll stop for now. Lots of potential things based on how I'm reading current trends.

to be honest I would be happy to see them put out New Codexs that work with the new rules instead of having half the crap not do anything at all.

Simplification of drug effects? i can see this happening but i hope not to a single effect. After all CSM get Fabius Bile's abilty ... i think that simplifing it down to 3 out comes is more likely

I have no clue what GW is going to do with Dark Eldar. But if the rumors over the past several years are at all accurate, GW has shelved at least 3 proposals for the army. To me, I interpret that as meaning that any changes are going to be major, assuming that DE ever gets out of development and moves into production.

Considering the amount of development work that was required, I have to imagine that at least one of the proposals tied to a major revamp as gunline DE eventually became the Tau.

Anyhow, WRT DE, one can rule out any minor changes, and expect a major restructuring of things. Think about how Chaos Daemons work compared to previous incarnations of Summoned Daemons. Anyhow, this makes it very hard to speculate as to where DE might go.

The only catch is that any changes need to result in a compelling army with a well-defined, distinctive niche, supported by Fluff that speaks to very large engagements.
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WRT IG, I'm hoping for something like this. But if GW is releasing April / May next year, they've probably frozen the basic design already.

8- Warp beasts will be handled differently, force org chart-wise.

Move these to FA and allow for larger units unless they add better options to the FA slot.

Grimaldi wrote:Looking at the last couple of codexes (Marine, Ork), and some of the early rumors coming out regarding the IG codex (some interesting ones just today), I'm trying to get a feel for where GW is trying to steer things, and how that will affect the IG and DE codexes.
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Got a headache, so I'll stop for now. Lots of potential things based on how I'm reading current trends.

Wow, what a momentous thing to try and predict. I will try because I suspect I know (Yea right) Anyway. heres the deal:

I suspect the next DE codex will have massive rules breaking exceptions in it, something like, all their units score, or they all hit and run or they ignore melee losses in close combat. Why? Because they gave away 2 of the the DE best powers to every army in the game for essentially no reason, and that was turbo boosting and plasma grenades. Now that that isn't unique what has the army got left? Uh, wyches in CC? Combat Drugs? Portals I guess, but with the distributed hit mechanic I dont think the 2 portal DE tricks will work anymore. Also TLOS makes vehicles pretty much moot for DE, as hiding a raider is nearly impossilbe.

They are going to need some teeth again, and with CC not really favoring units that are not well armored I suspect it would have to be something really drastic!

Drastic I say!

Outflanking raiders might do the trick though.

Thats how I would balance the army, without sweeping changes of points, theme and structure...

If they made Scourges have a Jetpack (not a jumppack) that would make them able to move and use heavy weapons - would make DL a viable option on them.

I think hellions and mandrakes will see a huge change as well. I can't see the current mandrake deployment procedure sticking around, but just "infiltrate" won't be enough. "Stealth" will still get them shot to pieces, too. They are currently pretty weak in melee, so a possible work around would be to let them deepstrike and assault. Has been done before, but has been moved away from, so I don't think this is where they'd want to go. Even giving them something like VoT of Tau stealth wouldn't help that much.

Hellions, as we all know, blow currently. They don't really seem to have much of a purpose, either. They're very fragile and expensive, which, combined with TLOS makes them hard to get into melee. In melee, they aren't particularly strong or tough, so they lose anyway. There's no role they really fill, and anything they can kind of do can be done much better by most other units in the list. I think they'll automatically get hit and run and furious charge, and the shooting part of the weapon will be cleaned up (either removed or made assault 18" or something).

I can't see the HQ options changing much, as Archites, Archons and retinues seem to work pretty well currently. I wonder if the shadow field will stay...it seems pretty well balanced, but it does frustrate a lot of people.

Portals will be gone (too complicated), combat drugs are probably fine but will be limited to wyche units which will automatically get them. The 12" charge will probably be replaced by Scout in a clever nod to Possessed SM.

Some new unit will be introduced for the Elite slot that blows everything else in the codex away. It will be the only thing left in the range in metal, and if you take a special independent character you can use them as troops and heavies too. Everyone will think it's a cool unit, until they have to face 12 units of them in a game. People will complain and Jervis will say "We don't test for that kind of thing, slag off".

Honestly though, I worry for the Dark Eldar codex because it's currently fine. I will be happy to see new minis for them though!

Portals gone? That's a tough one for me to accept...it does go against the grain of most of the rules now, but it is pretty iconic for the DE list in general, and certainly makes them very unique on the tabletop. I'd imagine it stays, but it may be modified somehow.

I agree that a new unit (at least one) will be introduced, but the elite section wouldn't be my first guess. I've always felt the fast attack section sucked the most, so that might be where it goes. Of course, the heavy support section is odd, too...ravager is good, talos doesn't really fit the army theme (IMHO), scourges could be fast attack, so maybe that would be a good place to add something.

Nah, Portals will stay.

Units with Deep Strike will get the chance to enter through them, as I suspect will Flanking units. Essentially, all you are doing is nominating a specific area of the board as a table edge for such things.

And I agree that Scourges ought to get Jetpacks. Move, shoot move just seems to fit the race so well, and with their fragile nature (a good stare can kill them stone dead) this won't be too overpowering, as a wily opponent will know to encircle them, giving them nowhere safe to land,