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Mandragola wrote: Supposedly the thing would be to use the same scheme for the unit and its drones. There'd be no problem distinquishing the two units from each other, and they'd stand out from other things.
The trouble with it though is that it breaks up the colour scheme of the army. I'd prefer not to have to do that, if at all possible.
Speaking for myself, ones that will be going into specific vehicles/units for army purposes are going to match.
Ex: A Shas'ui from a squad equipped with Marker Drones will have the Antennae marked as the Shas'ui is and with the same unit markers.
Mandragola wrote: Supposedly the thing would be to use the same scheme for the unit and its drones. There'd be no problem distinquishing the two units from each other, and they'd stand out from other things.
The trouble with it though is that it breaks up the colour scheme of the army. I'd prefer not to have to do that, if at all possible.
Speaking for myself, ones that will be going into specific vehicles/units for army purposes are going to match.
Ex: A Shas'ui from a squad equipped with Marker Drones will have the Antennae marked as the Shas'ui is and with the same unit markers.
Not really here nor there for Tactics though.
Yes, you're right - apologies for derailing.
I suppose the follow up question, which is tactics related, is whether it's smarter to bring separate big units instead of adding them to all of your other units (excepting of course the special ones).
Off the top of my head I imagine it reduces kill points, and you get the benefit of throwing them down with manta strike, but that gives up the savior protocols unless you're going first I guess.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/21 18:01:05
Mandragola wrote: Supposedly the thing would be to use the same scheme for the unit and its drones. There'd be no problem distinquishing the two units from each other, and they'd stand out from other things.
The trouble with it though is that it breaks up the colour scheme of the army. I'd prefer not to have to do that, if at all possible.
Speaking for myself, ones that will be going into specific vehicles/units for army purposes are going to match.
Ex: A Shas'ui from a squad equipped with Marker Drones will have the Antennae marked as the Shas'ui is and with the same unit markers.
Not really here nor there for Tactics though.
Yes, you're right - apologies for derailing.
I suppose the follow up question, which is tactics related, is whether it's smarter to bring separate big units instead of adding them to all of your other units (excepting of course the special ones).
Off the top of my head I imagine it reduces kill points, and you get the benefit of throwing them down with manta strike, but that gives up the savior protocols unless you're going first I guess.
I think with shield drones it makes the most sense to put them with the unit (broadsides for example).
Marker drones though - probably better using manta strike - just to prevent alpha.
I don't think we are gonna have a lot of gun drones going on - but manta strike with crisis seems to be their only use.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Mandragola wrote: Yeah it's going to be an issue, and not just for drones. The official way Fire Warrior units are distinguished is by those tiny little stripes and dots on them, which are too small to really see if you've got a load of guys. Some other solution, like different coloured shoulder pads or something, is almost certainly needed.
Samurai style back banners would work well as unit identifiers.
True, and they'd look amazing, but I'm not making 72 of them!
I do think my Fireblade is going to be converted so that he's waving a big banner instead of a knife, but that's kind of a seperate issue.
Good gracious no. I was picturing one per unit with markings to match the shoulder detail. The banners are just help you locate the rough position of each unit at a glance. Doing one for every guy is mental (but it would look awesome, I agree).
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
Personally I would swap the ethrel and kroot into the sacea brigade, with a fireblade a 3 firewarriors into the tau batallion. 3 shots at 15 overwatching on 5&6's
Also your pathfinders seam to have an extra markerlight as you can't take a markerlight on an ion rifle.
Ice_can wrote: Personally I would swap the ethrel and kroot into the sacea brigade, with a fireblade a 3 firewarriors into the tau batallion. 3 shots at 15 overwatching on 5&6's
Also your pathfinders seam to have an extra markerlight as you can't take a markerlight on an ion rifle.
I'm fairly sure the pathfinders are correct, 6 guys, five markerlights and one Ion Rifle should equal 52. The whole point of having the fireblades and the strike teams with markerlights in sa'cea though is for the reroll on the markerlight. I'd say it's worth more than the bonus to shooting. The ethereal doesn't matter either way as his ability is tau empire rather than .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/21 22:26:50
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
You ask for advice so I will give you my opinion - for broadsides - take plasma not SMS. Don't take marker drones unless you want to put drone controller on something in your army (id just turn them into sheild drones straight away for the broadsides). Remove ion rifles from pathfinders and just take more pathfinders with the saved point. Prefer SMS on the hammerheads also (ESP on long strike). I dont why you aqre taking a second detachment without another commander in it ether - drop a fireblade and make room for a commander. Etherals aren't good IMO ether - though you do have a lot of 10 man units - could be helpful then.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
SMS is more expensive and LOS is not a big issue at that range. If it was 48" ignore LOS I would agree with you but at 30" it's rarely going to come into effect. The ignore cover is mostly wasted also because you are already going to ignore cover shooting at a 5 markerlight target (which your broadsides really should be shooting at anyways). The plasma range is an issue - but nether option being that great - I'll just take the cheaper option.
SMS is much better on a hammerhead because they are more likely to shoot at things without 5 markers and also are probably trying to hide out of LOS themselves.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: You ask for advice so I will give you my opinion - for broadsides - take plasma not SMS. Don't take marker drones unless you want to put drone controller on something in your army (id just turn them into sheild drones straight away for the broadsides). Remove ion rifles from pathfinders and just take more pathfinders with the saved point. Prefer SMS on the hammerheads also (ESP on long strike). I dont why you aqre taking a second detachment without another commander in it ether - drop a fireblade and make room for a commander. Etherals aren't good IMO ether - though you do have a lot of 10 man units - could be helpful then. ... SMS is more expensive and LOS is not a big issue at that range. If it was 48" ignore LOS I would agree with you but at 30" it's rarely going to come into effect. The ignore cover is mostly wasted also because you are already going to ignore cover shooting at a 5 markerlight target (which your broadsides really should be shooting at anyways). The plasma range is an issue - but nether option being that great - I'll just take the cheaper option. SMS is much better on a hammerhead because they are more likely to shoot at things without 5 markers and also are probably trying to hide out of LOS themselves.
I feel more in line with Bryan, at 30" you get 8 shots. at 24" you get 2 shots and at 12" you get 4 shots. It feels to me that a backfield camper probably wants the greater number of shots at mid range. (plus I think it looks much better aesthetically) Having said that, you're probably right about SMS on the hammerheads, I was just trying to save points. Having looked at the army, it probably doesn't need the extra ML drones, and they were going to be ablative broadside wounds, so yes shield drones probably are better. Lets say I did take out a fireblade and an ethereal, and the shaper meaning I would have to make the firewarrior blob smaller and more vulnerable to LD (although I think at ten men it may not be too much of an issue for the FWs, the kroot need it) That gives me an elite slot that needs filling for the brigade, and only 120 points, so I could squeeze in a three FB commander. I think it's much more valuable to buff the 600 or so points of infantry than to have another FB deep strike one shot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/21 22:58:33
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
I don't suicide with commanders ever - they hide behind units. It's why I really like ghostkeels - keeps your fusion or CIB commander alive. You can't fit one though without major change. I run a 4 missle commander. It's not cheap but it stays alive shooting all game and sets off reroll master of war without wasting a turn of shooting. Anyways I agree with you - putting in a fusion commander isn't going to help you much with this heavy infantry build
No need to tear your list up. It's fine as it is - just nitpicks. I think you really want to run Secca but longstrike is tau. That is where the issue is. You are really better off with everything being tau competitively. Not just because 5/6 overwatch - only tau sept units can benefit from the +1 to wound stratagem. Seems to me that is the best stratagem in the book.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
For a commander, one option would be to run a 4 CIB guy and give him the Tau JSJ relic. The missile guy to call Kauyon on your broadsides is also a strong option.
Honestly I'm still unsure if a brigade is the way to go for Tau, but it's certainly a decent option. A brigade plus a battalion likely isn't ideal though. I think you've got too many kroot and too many fireblades. You just need the kroot to spread out and push forward, which should be doable with two units. And/or take some stealths or a ghostkeel with the points you'd save, and deploy them anywhere you like.
The trouble with kroot is that they'll simply evapourate in front of some enemies. There will be people you totally overwhelm, but when you lose you'll lose hard. Their LD is just so bad.
I'd put a DC on one of your broadsides, and/or velocity trackers. A VT seems like a pretty strong upgdrade for them for 2 points, given how many of their likely targets fly. But a shield generator can do surprisingly little for a model that has a 2+ save anyway.
As for plasma vs sms on the broadsides, there's not a lot in it. I hear the argument for saving points but I think that's often going to be at the expense of shooting. The reverse of that is that plasma gives way scarier overwatch, and your army hardly lacks S5 shooting.
Can't stretch my love for Vespids enough, those little buggers are just that amazing.
2 points more than a gun drone, same toughness and save, but can get the ever valuable cover bonus (super easy to do as you can deepstrike them right into cover) thanks to being infantry with fly, +6" movement, and much, MUCH better firepower (18" Assault 2 S5 AP-2 that hit on 4+ and get free choice of target rather than being 4 shots S5 AP0 hitting on 5+ and having to target the closest enemy). Also Ld8 is massive as Ld5 is a huge issue even for the smallest drone units. Losing even a single drone means a 33% chance to lose another one, while Vespids simply don't give a gak.
They are basically for cheap deepstriking firepower and objective stealing what Stealthsuits are for defensive board control, obective grabbing and wound soaking potential. They basically fit into any list.
Used a unit of 4 Vespids (56 pts) and 4 deep striking tactical gun drones (48 pts) today and the Vespids completely out performed the drones at the job (high value target elimination and objective clearing). A single markerlight on target is already a nice helper for the already good efficiency of Vespids, but if you manage to get 5 markers on target (all praise the ML strategemens) they just murder everything on two legs.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/03/22 00:45:32
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
I use Vespids all the time for clearing units in the backfield of my enemy or just harass him. 2 S5 -2Ap shots a piece can put hurt in nearly anything.
They are absolutely phenomenal, I totally agree with you.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
I’m going to have to try vespids. My only issue is the models, which I really don’t like. I’ve got some of the old metal stealth suits and I’m thinking of trying to convert them to count as vespids. Not sure how I’d do the guns, which would be the main tricky thing.
Been playing with list ideas and I want to make a stealth theme work. Here is what I came up with:
Spoiler:
Bork'an Battalion
Enforcer w/ 4 ion
Fireblade w/ puretide chip
3x5 fire warriors
Burstide sms, ats, and tl Ghostkeels ion, burst, ats, and tl Ghostkeels ion, burst, ats, and tl
Bork'an Battalion
Enforcer w/ 4 ion
Fireblade
3x5 fire warriors
2x5 pathfinders w/ pad
Vior'la Vanguard
Coldstar w/ 4 fusion
2x3 stealth suits
6 stealth suits 2 fuision 6 vt
2x4 vespid
What does everyone think? There is good deployment options, decent survivability, and good mobility. I feel a bit light on actual damage but I haven't run the new ion rakers yet so maybe I'm ok. I have considered dropping the riptide for a bunch of pathfinders with ion rifles. I'd also consider sniper drones as they would fit the theme but even with mortal wounds I don't feel that they do that much.
Forest hunter sept ~3500 guardians of the covenant 4th company ~ 6000
Warrior based hive fleet
Mandragola wrote: I’m going to have to try vespids. My only issue is the models, which I really don’t like. I’ve got some of the old metal stealth suits and I’m thinking of trying to convert them to count as vespids. Not sure how I’d do the guns, which would be the main tricky thing.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Mandragola wrote: For a commander, one option would be to run a 4 CIB guy and give him the Tau JSJ relic. The missile guy to call Kauyon on your broadsides is also a strong option.
Honestly I'm still unsure if a brigade is the way to go for Tau, but it's certainly a decent option. A brigade plus a battalion likely isn't ideal though. I think you've got too many kroot and too many fireblades. You just need the kroot to spread out and push forward, which should be doable with two units. And/or take some stealths or a ghostkeel with the points you'd save, and deploy them anywhere you like.
The trouble with kroot is that they'll simply evapourate in front of some enemies. There will be people you totally overwhelm, but when you lose you'll lose hard. Their LD is just so bad.
I'd put a DC on one of your broadsides, and/or velocity trackers. A VT seems like a pretty strong upgdrade for them for 2 points, given how many of their likely targets fly. But a shield generator can do surprisingly little for a model that has a 2+ save anyway.
As for plasma vs sms on the broadsides, there's not a lot in it. I hear the argument for saving points but I think that's often going to be at the expense of shooting. The reverse of that is that plasma gives way scarier overwatch, and your army hardly lacks S5 shooting.
Was thinking the same about the velocity tracker. Saves you 6 points too. I'm concerned about not having cover or having the option to move up to get rapid fire with my plasma guns. Still gives you a 4+ vs bright lances and melta type weapons. It seems I am always facing a lot of -4 AP these days. All good point though. Probably will be more of a taste thing or in the end what you can afford. I was actually looking for a way to drop points in an earlier list because I didn't think I had enough pathfinders. Those point savings are already half way to another unit of them.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
Plasma rifles are a low tier weapon this edition, SMS is one of our best. It's not even close. The plasma rifles are still inferior to SMS when shooting at tanks in rapid fire. It's really sad. Strength 6 has just killed the weapon.
It's okay for shooting things like Terminators in rapid fire range, but then why are you shooting at terminators in rapid fire range with your Broadsides? Don't do that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 03:20:11
It's not better - it's cheaper. It's an 8 point savings. 7 of that goes into a fire warrior which has 3 shots str 5 in optimal range. That just for comparison. You are probably going to use those saved points on seeker missiles or marker light upgrades on fire warriors. 8 more str 5 shots isn't making a huge difference in this army anyways. I prefer to spend points somewhere else is all I am saying - I agree with you that its usually the better option for doing damage early in the game - it would be a no brainer if they were priced equally.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: It's not better - it's cheaper. It's an 8 point savings. 7 of that goes into a fire warrior which has 3 shots str 5 in optimal range. That just for comparison. You are probably going to use those saved points on seeker missiles or marker light upgrades on fire warriors. 8 more str 5 shots isn't making a huge difference in this army anyways. I prefer to spend points somewhere else is all I am saying - I agree with you that its usually the better option for doing damage early in the game - it would be a no brainer if they were priced equally.
It's moderately more point efficient (like within 2 points per wound, assuming no ATS), but only if you are in rapid fire range. At anything longer than 12", it's just flat out worse and it's actually more expensive in points-per-wound terms. You can find better ways to save 8 points in your list than swapping your SMS for plasma rifles.
Mandragola wrote: For a commander, one option would be to run a 4 CIB guy and give him the Tau JSJ relic. The missile guy to call Kauyon on your broadsides is also a strong option.
Honestly I'm still unsure if a brigade is the way to go for Tau, but it's certainly a decent option. A brigade plus a battalion likely isn't ideal though. I think you've got too many kroot and too many fireblades. You just need the kroot to spread out and push forward, which should be doable with two units. And/or take some stealths or a ghostkeel with the points you'd save, and deploy them anywhere you like.
The trouble with kroot is that they'll simply evapourate in front of some enemies. There will be people you totally overwhelm, but when you lose you'll lose hard. Their LD is just so bad.
I'd put a DC on one of your broadsides, and/or velocity trackers. A VT seems like a pretty strong upgdrade for them for 2 points, given how many of their likely targets fly. But a shield generator can do surprisingly little for a model that has a 2+ save anyway.
I'll think about the missile guy, but the shaper should improve LD enough for 10 man units. They're also the cheapest way of filling out the tau battalion for extra cp.
Originally I was going to have just velocity trackers, but given the broadsides are one of the big damage dealers of the list next to the hammerheads, I didn't want them dying to big guns with ap -4. Also DC seems wasted if I'm swapping the markerlight drones for shield drones.
As for the fireblades, they're cheap, they're a BS2 markerlight with rerolls in sa'cea (sorry I doubted you meleti) and there are 5 strike teams, so less than three makes it difficult to over them all.
I'll think about taking out the kroot though. I'll get back at the end of the day with a revised list.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
Mandragola wrote: I’m going to have to try vespids. My only issue is the models, which I really don’t like. I’ve got some of the old metal stealth suits and I’m thinking of trying to convert them to count as vespids. Not sure how I’d do the guns, which would be the main tricky thing.
I am going to purchase the female GREATER GOOD models from wargame exclusive to use as vespids.
davou wrote: Plasma vs SMS on broadsides is an easy win for the SMS for me. Gives you a bit of anti-tank and a bit of anti-infantry on the same platform.
Plasmas range is too low compared to the rail rifles, and with the SMS at least you don't need to draw lines to the target.
The only upside of the plasma rifles vs. the SMS is that you can get a shield generator and the plasma rifles for the same price as the SMS.
Plasma is massively overpriced on a broadside, most of the time you get two shots plasma a turn at best, while the SMS would be giving you 8 S5 shots (that ignore cover and more importantly LoS) instead. If the HRR Broadie with Plasma I got off ebay wasn't so excellently painted (#1 fav model I own) I would tear off the plasma rifles in an instant. I don't think they ever even made their points back in any game I played it. The plasma would serve a purpose if my Broadsides could reliably move and shoot without penalty into rapid fire range (together with my Fire Warrior blob), but for me Shield Generators and ATS (on Missilesides) are just too valuable to give up the support system slot. The best thing about a HRR Broadside (even with Sa'cea) is not even the firepower, but how incredibly hard they are to remove and how long they get to stick around when they got a shield generator and two shield drones. Most players simply don't bother wasting their AT firepower on it because their shots will simply be eaten by a 4+ inv followed by the drones 5+ FnP.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/03/22 11:45:44
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
In a vacuum which would you take between a Y'vahra and a stormsurge? Both are within a few pints of each other and I'm oddly feeling like the Y'vahra might be stronger though the SS brings mortal wound potential. Thoughts?
If you're only looking at the unit itself, I'd probably take the Stormsurge. It big and tough enough to actually suvive a turn or two. If we're talking about a real army where you'll have drones around to chump wounds to, the Y'Vahra wins in a landslide. That flamer is stupidly powerful, and now that you can have 14" range on it with the Borkan Sept trait, using the Nova charge to redeploy is actually useful.
buddha wrote: In a vacuum which would you take between a Y'vahra and a stormsurge? Both are within a few pints of each other and I'm oddly feeling like the Y'vahra might be stronger though the SS brings mortal wound potential. Thoughts?
Take a look at this list - 1 Surge is too easy to kill IMO - must bring 3.
Interestingly I think both of these units do best in Bork'an. The range really helps both units shine.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
You ask for advice so I will give you my opinion - for broadsides - take plasma not SMS. Don't take marker drones unless you want to put drone controller on something in your army (id just turn them into sheild drones straight away for the broadsides). Remove ion rifles from pathfinders and just take more pathfinders with the saved point. Prefer SMS on the hammerheads also (ESP on long strike). I dont why you aqre taking a second detachment without another commander in it ether - drop a fireblade and make room for a commander. Etherals aren't good IMO ether - though you do have a lot of 10 man units - could be helpful then.
I disagree on plasma over SMS. There are three issues with plasma here:
Range - you need to be within 12" for it to give you its most effective shooting, which is really not where you want your broadsides. SMS has a greater range.
Targets - plasma wants to hit tougher things, which is a shorter list of available targets. On its own, not an issue, but consider...
LoS - plasma needs it, SMS does not
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/22 14:58:09
Forest hunter sept ~3500 
guardians of the covenant 4th company ~ 6000
Warrior based hive fleet
15000
4000 
