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Aggressors seem pretty awful. 18" guns and a special ability that lets them fire twice if they don't move? No way to bypass armor with shooting? Very little reason to use these especially as I bet they are way over costed. They're basically just a hurricane bolter and a frag missile.

they seem like a good way to put hurt on swarms, freeing up other units for more pressing targets.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
they seem like a good way to put hurt on swarms, freeing up other units for more pressing targets.

agreed, use these when facing 'nids Orc or guard

 Kirasu wrote:
Aggressors seem pretty awful. 18" guns and a special ability that lets them fire twice if they don't move? No way to bypass armor with shooting? Very little reason to use these especially as I bet they are way over costed. They're basically just a hurricane bolter and a frag missile.

They fire twice in Overwatch too, so basically they are a rock agains't any assault army. Even more if is a horde assault army.

Plus, this rumour pic is the Primaris Aphotecary base

 Kirasu wrote:
Aggressors seem pretty awful. 18" guns and a special ability that lets them fire twice if they don't move? No way to bypass armor with shooting? Very little reason to use these especially as I bet they are way over costed. They're basically just a hurricane bolter and a frag missile.

I certainly don't think they're overcosted. 6 power for 3. Or 43 points each for either weapon loadout. Certainly not bad for the amount of shooting you get plus the power fist.

Edit:. They also can run and fire without a penalty which helps the 18" range.

Emissary wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Aggressors seem pretty awful. 18" guns and a special ability that lets them fire twice if they don't move? No way to bypass armor with shooting? Very little reason to use these especially as I bet they are way over costed. They're basically just a hurricane bolter and a frag missile.

I certainly don't think they're overcosted. 6 power for 3. Or 43 points each for either weapon loadout. Certainly not bad for the amount of shooting you get plus the power fist.

Edit:. They also can run and fire without a penalty which helps the 18" range.

If you want to play to win, combine them with ravenguard and run them in a squad of 6. Then place them 15" away in cover at start of first battle round but before the first turn. Then you didn't 'move' to get into 18".

If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

 Kirasu wrote:
If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

Termies have a 2+/5++ and DS without cp.

The 360 on the redemption makes me like it more. I love those little storm bolter turrets.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

Termies have a 2+/5++ and DS without cp.

The 360 on the redemption makes me like it more. I love those little storm bolter turrets.

Yeah and worthless guns compared to 12+d6 shots. 8th is all about shooting. What good is a 2+/5++ if you can't actually accomplish anything?

 Kirasu wrote:
If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

Is magic how you can twist everything to make it look bad
Terminators are much more flexible (And the assault ones are much better at assault)
Gravis armour is a 3+, +1T armour without invulnerable save. They are much less durable than Terminators.

Is the new codex completely lacking in pictures of traditional marines and their vehicles besides flyers?

From the pics that I have seen, it seems to be the case.
Has anyone seen differently?

 Galas wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

Is magic how you can twist everything to make it look bad
Terminators are much more flexible (And the assault ones are much better at assault)

How are normal terminators flexible? They haven't been used by virtually anyone in 4 editions. You have missiles on wolf guard for a bit and double assault cannon black Templars over the past 15 years.

Also assault terminators are 3 attacks for same cost of average of 15 shots and they most likely will fail a charge if they DS. There is no way that a squad of 15 lightning claw attacks is anywhere close to good compared to 60+5d6 shots that don't require you to charge. Doesn't even factor in their own close combat attacks.

I'm not twisting words, it's just math. This does depend on cost.and I'd be surprised if they're only 43.

I can agree that 43 points for that many shoots is very strong, even if they lack movility and durability.

 Kirasu wrote:


How are normal terminators flexible? They haven't been used by virtually anyone in 4 editions.

Used regular terminators twice so far in 8th Ed. so far.
So have another SM-player at my "LGS".

Guess we're both no one.
Anyone knows the way to Braavos?

 Galas wrote:
I can agree that 43 points for that many shoots is very strong, even if they lack movility and durability.

That makes them a pretty good candidate as a glass cannon type. I can't complain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
If they're only 43 points then I can see them being decent as then they make terminators seem like a joke.

Is magic how you can twist everything to make it look bad
Terminators are much more flexible (And the assault ones are much better at assault)

How are normal terminators flexible? They haven't been used by virtually anyone in 4 editions. You have missiles on wolf guard for a bit and double assault cannon black Templars over the past 15 years.

Also assault terminators are 3 attacks for same cost of average of 15 shots and they most likely will fail a charge if they DS. There is no way that a squad of 15 lightning claw attacks is anywhere close to good compared to 60+5d6 shots that don't require you to charge. Doesn't even factor in their own close combat attacks.

I'm not twisting words, it's just math. This does depend on cost.and I'd be surprised if they're only 43.

Seeing as Terminators don't suck now, they're being used even semi-competitively. I've even got a list I posted here with 3 squads of the Assault variant.

Terminators have been great in this edition so far. I have used deathwing, chaos terminators, or grey knight paladins in almost every game...

Deepstrike on any turn right next to something nasty (swarmlord). Shoot 4 bolter shots each (inside 12"... yup that's 20 shots for 5 terminators with storm bolters). Then use your cyclone missiles, assault cannon, or combi weapons to kill more. Remember you can shoot anything, so you can kill hordes at thia point. Then roll for assault (I've only failed one so far, only need an 8 on two dice to get within 1" pile in, and can use cp for rerolls). Then go first and punch your enemy to death with power fists, chainfists, power weapons, etc.

Yes you have to be tactical about how you use them. However, depending on the type used your base terminators may have a 4++... unlike the new primaris "terminators". With lots of weapons having a values, invulnerable saves are great (not to mention 2 wounds each.

I'm going out on a limb to say the naysayers either haven't used terminators or haven't used them correctly (or tactically) based on comments on dakka. They are one of the more flexible marine units in the game, especially if you can kit them out anyway you want (chaos, wolves, dw, ets).

Problem with Gravis is the 3+ and no ++ save. They get hit with plasma weapons or primaris bolt Pistols and their save goes to a 4+. They will die pretty quick without an invulnerable save for their point cost (including wargear).

Models look great though.

Wraithguard seem to disagree.

455_PWR, it is worth noting that a charge after deep strike requires a roll of 9 on 2d6. Deploy outside of 9" = 9.0001 away. Roll an 8 for charge, that does not get you 1" or closer, it gets you 1.0001 away and you need actually 1" or less to pile in, not "a teeny bit more than 1" to pile in"

edit: so many mobile typos

Need some clarification on the Crimson Fists.

What's the relic (fist of vengeance) do? It looks like it's a damage 3 power fist without the -1?

What's the warlord trait do?

Does Bolter drill only apply to 1 unit?

Egads on using it on a unit of Devestator centurions with heavy bolters and assault bolters in 12 inch range. Or stationary Agressors


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imagining Pedro plus a Lt plus standard bearer plus chaplain with fist of vengeance plus Devestator centurions and Sternguard blob in cover.

+1 save, +2 v AP1, reroll misses, reroll wounds, Bolter drill and +1 A.

Salamanders Relic looks to be the Salamander Mantle for +1 Toughness, correct? Doesn't replace anything like some of the other relics and would be free if it's the only one you take?

What is the Salamanders Warlord Trait?

Has Vulkan changed at all compared to the Index?

It looks like the only options for Flamers on Primaris are the Aggressors and the Dreadnaught, and zero Melta options, correct?

 455_PWR wrote:
...Then roll for assault (I've only failed one so far, only need an 8 on two dice to get within 1" pile in, and can use cp for rerolls). Then go first and punch your enemy to death with power fists, chainfists, power weapons, etc.

I agree that terminators are better than they have been in ages in this new ed.

One thing; you do not need to roll an 8 for their charge - you need a 9. From the FAQ:

Q. Lots of abilities allow a unit to arrive during the battle and
be set up more than 9" from any enemy models. If I use such an
ability to set up as close as allowed towards an enemy unit and
then select it as the target of the charge, what is the minimum
charge distance I need to roll to make a successful charge
(assuming no modifiers)?
A. 9.

I was watching WinterSEO's opening of the Redemptor and he flipped to the points page in his codex. If you pause you can see .....

Inceptors got a point buff. They are now 30 points a model base. Hooooray! I didn't paint them for nothing!

People seem to like Aggressors but unless you get first turn or can deep strike them I don't really see most games allowing them to get off a single round of shooting if your opponent is threatened by them. If they are a ton of vehicles then you lucked out and gravis are pawing at stuff until they are all killed.

Basically, your either RG or you keep them home I think.

Edit: as space marines are the 1st codex of 8th, there are a lot of codexes that will probably get beefed up making a lot of this stuff lose its 'new shiny' I suspect. Not to be pessimistic.

The three latest videos: A codex review, Redemptor unboxing and battle report with the new book




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:


Edit: as space marines are the 1st codex of 8th, there are a lot of codexes that will probably get beefed up making a lot of this stuff lose its 'new shiny' I suspect. Not to be pessimistic.

True, nothing to worry about at this point imo

Also we havent seen much of 8th Ed yet, even Marine-wise. There could be one or more waves of Primaris kits later this year, with rules in the construction manuals, so dont expect this to be the end of new stuff for Marines Like a generic SM kit or two with the DA, SW and BA codices. Some of the models mentioned in rumors havent been seen yet, maybe the rumors are false, but the Redemptor designer livestream seems to have mentioned (I havent watched it) more dreadnoughts are coming.

I didn't follow the rumours closely and thought the Reivers would be up for pre-order. I want more after the sarge stabbed all six Poxwalkers in the First Strike mission I played with my GF*. Love the Crysis-style abs. MAXIMUM ARMOUR.

Edit: Wait, wat. Wayland lists Reivers which do not show up for me on GW's site (on mobile).

The Aggressors are...weak, IMO. The fists are way worse than Calgar's and even the clunky GK powerfists with stormbolters. Okay. I'll make myself a nagging naysayer and say this: In my opinion the Primaris range would be better if those dudes didn't exist and the design space and time had been available for something else.


*the pox boys got their revenge in the rematch, where a couple of sixes and a fateful one made a dramatic end to the duel between the last 'walker and the sarge. The chainsword-wielding freak (minor conversion to get away from silly tentacle arms) decapitated the Marine in a shower of sparks and blood when one attack hit, wounded and wasn't saved. Didn't help her mood that this time *I* was playing Nurgle

 Kirasu wrote:
Aggressors seem pretty awful. 18" guns and a special ability that lets them fire twice if they don't move? No way to bypass armor with shooting? Very little reason to use these especially as I bet they are way over costed. They're basically just a hurricane bolter and a frag missile.

The GW spam I just got describes them as "indomitable anti-Infantry specialists". They aren't tank killers.

And hey, for 30-ish points I get a Tyranid Warrior with 3 whole shots, making their 40-odd and a bajillion shots in comparison seem very attractive!

 AduroT wrote:
Salamanders Relic looks to be the Salamander Mantle for +1 Toughness, correct? Doesn't replace anything like some of the other relics and would be free if it's the only one you take?

What is the Salamanders Warlord Trait?

Has Vulkan changed at all compared to the Index?

It looks like the only options for Flamers on Primaris are the Aggressors and the Dreadnaught, and zero Melta options, correct?

I have been looking for this in one place, as well.

So I was right. The Bolt Carbine and the Auto Bolt Rifle are essentially the same weapon, they have the same profile. It is really weird, and I think someone fethed up. Auto Bolt Rifle is pathetically weak option for Intercessors, as they can just have the better normal Bolt Rifle.

 Crimson wrote:
So I was right. The Bolt Carbine and the Auto Bolt Rifle are essentially the same weapon, they have the same profile. It is really weird, and I think someone fethed up. Auto Bolt Rifle is pathetically weak option for Intercessors, as they can just have the better normal Bolt Rifle.

I think, rather than making two Squads of Reivers (one with Carbines, the other with Blades), I am going to make two Squads with Blades, one with Grav Chutes, the other with Grapnel Launchers. Carbines pretty well suck. I was hoping for an Assault Bolt Rifle with shorter range. Of course I will be disappointed.

Speeders dropped 10pts, whirlwinds dropped 15.
Blurry, but it doesn't look like the base stormraven changed in price.
(Around 39:15)
https://youtu.be/qpvAr9DRmgQ?t=2356