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I'm trying to make a semi mech-DA army. Currently at the list phase.
I will possibly be including
Vindi's
LRC
LR
RB
Rhinos
Dreads..

With at least 8+ tanks in my army I want to know is extra armour really worth it?
8x15points is another dread the way I see it.
What are your thoughts on this?

With the way Rhinos are priced in the DA Codex, and the way Smoke works, I'd say that extra armor is not worth it.

On Land Raiders it's less of an issue as well, as they have PotMS, altho I no longer remember how they've fangled and nerfed that rule (if at all). If they can still move and shoot, then XA isn't worth it.

With the Vindicator, I'd say it's borderline. The big edge XA gives is letting you hide from the thing that just hit you, or keep moving to deliver your cargo. By the time its getting hit, the Vindicator is probably too close to go hide. The only risk is it being stationary, and then getting hit by assault. It's 24" range means that's very possible. If that happens, it's pretty F-ed, so the XA might be a good insurance policy to keep it fighting. Also, needs to advance, so an early stun steals a turn of use from it.

I don't play Dreads much, so I can't really comment there.

i'm a bog fan in my csm army, i tend to use a lot of CC troops, and being able to always move is priceless

They shoudl have just included it in a price. Unless you are using rhinos to sit around and shoot havok launchers, there is no reason you wouldn't spend the points.

It's an auto take in my mind.

I play mechanised wolves:

Ven Dread

2x Dread

3x pack of 6 grey hunters in HB razorbacks

8x bloodclaws + wolfgaurd battle leader in drop pod

Vindicator

wolf scouts.

and yes all the vehicles which can move get extra armour.

for dreads it's a no brainer, if you can't shoot, then thats a turn speant running towards combat to use your DCCW.

the razorbacks and vindie can scuttle out of the way of more fire and redploy.

basically extra armour means you can not worry about 1/3rd of penetrating hits as you can do something usefull.

get it, get it now...

Like others have said being able to move is always good and probably worth the extra points. You could probably get away with not taking it on Whirlwinds and Predators. You can also skip it on Land Raiders. DA still have the old PotMS. Just try and remember to point it in the direction you would like to go, you have to move 12" in a straight line from where he was pointing.

NO!!!! NO!!!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!

A stun happens 1/6 of the time. Glance or pen. On any dice roll against your rhino, 1/6 of the time Extra Armor will actually do something. Anything else and it's a complete wash. Your rhino is much more likely to be immobilized or destroyed/exploded than it is to be stunned. Much, much more likely. So much more likely that spending 15 points per vehicle is an absolute waste on anything, and doubly so on cheap transports. You just spent 150% of the cost of the rhino for another rhino that does the exact same thing 5/6 of the time.

Total waste of points.

Lots of people have "that story" of the one time when they really needed the rhino to move and it got shot and somebody rolled a 2 and extra armor let the rhino moved and that unit was able to save the game.

Doesn't change the fact that 5/6 of the time it's a total waste of points.

I think people using extra armor is a hold over from 3rd edition, maybe 4th, where it was cheap and the chances of needing it were much higher. 5 points to reduce the chance of moving by 1/6 was pretty good. I think 15 points for the same thing is a bit overpriced in the current edition.

In 4th edition the odds of being Stunned were much higher than 1/6, since all penetrating hits also stunned.

In 5th edition it is hard to justify paying so many points for something that only has a 17% chance of occuring. This is even more true if you are fielding large numbers of Rhinos - most of them will make it to the destination.

I think it's a must for rhino's. I run a semi rhino rush, but my plan frequently revolves around getting as many troops as far forward as possible as quickly as possible. Extra armour is needed to keep the advance going.

Yeah, it kind of depends on just how clutch it is that you be able to move every turn - also consider, if it is an assault unit you may still be able to charge if you went 12" on turn 1.

It is something that I always add and also the first thing I trim when looking for points.

First off I'll say that I never use extra armor, however I think it's a matter of scale. If you only have 1-2 rhino's in your list than extra armor might be good for you. If you have 5-7 rhino's not so much. I run a pure mech sisters army and I don't put it on anything, even for 5 points it's too much.

It depends if your army is a throw back to 3rd ed where you need to get close asap then I would take it. If your army is more counter assault based where the rhinos just give you some added mobility then you don't need it.

Its def not the MUST HAVE it used to be.

For example my buddy and I used the same army in 2 different rounds of ard boys and he didnt take extra armor and I took it on everything and we both came in first so it really depends on your army list and if you think its necessary or not

In an assault army Rhinos should be a one turn ride(and that turn they should smoke). After the one turn of relative saftey, they get out, move and assualt. There after Rhinos are moving cover to screen them from enemy fire and block assault routes.

Extra amor for most new dexes is 15 points. That is the same cost as a plasma gun or a lightnign claw. Spend the points on something useful. Sourclams described the likelhood of needing extra armor, and quite simply, you don't need it.

It worked a little in 4th because of the autostun on pens, and the only glancing hits from smoke and extra armor combo actually paid off against massed low or mid strength weapons. But really still not enough to be worht it. Even in 4th i was skipping the extra armor.

Rhinos purpose for an assault army are to drive you 12" forward during turn 1, aand give you an extra 2ish inches of deployment on your second turn so you are closer to yoru assualt targets. It also makes your opponent waste their anti tank shots on a rhino to give their small arms somethign to shoot at. In 5th even pens still generate no shooting or stunned or weapon destroyed or immobilized with no side effects for the passengers(other than not shooting from inside the rhino). 2/3 of all pens are happy for the passengers(unless its ap 1 or open topped). Even when they are wreked or explode, the damage to marine passengers is minimal.

The only time you want extra armor is if you plan on using the vehicle as a shooting platform from firepoints. I.e a sisters rhino rush with meltas and flamers inside, who are never going to get out unless your opponent pops the rhino. Ans sisters are the only ones who get the upgrade or the squads cheap enough to do that reliably.

Meph

Except even the way extra armor adds up in the new marine dex it's cheaper for a rhino + armor than a the basic rhino your paying in the sisters army.

So not sure where your math adds up it's cheaper.

A rhino without extra armor is cheaper than a rhino with extra armor no matter what codex you use.

Mephistoles1 wrote:The only time you want extra armor is if you plan on using the vehicle as a shooting platform from firepoints. I.e a sisters rhino rush with meltas and flamers inside, who are never going to get out unless your opponent pops the rhino. Ans sisters are the only ones who get the upgrade or the squads cheap enough to do that reliably.

Sadly for the sisters, they can no longer fire from a Rhino that moved over 6". The days of the rapid drive-by are over.

In land raiders extra armor is immensely useful. You can no longer chose to shoot with the machine spirit while stunned in the new marine dex and its only about a 7% increase in the price of the vehicle. Making sure that bulk is mobile and blocking line of sight or tankshocking is a must

How do you come to the conclusion you can't shoot while stunned?

What you can't do is DRIVE while stunned. The PotMS lost its license after a drunk driving joyride arrest on a mountain road outside of the Northern Polar Fortress on Macragge.